Some official words regarding naval progression (an excerpt from my support tickets)

Thank you for your concise work!
+1 rep to you.

Considering the extreme boredom that the mission system entails I will be quiting after Master for the Empire.

I have never agreed when ppl cried about the 'grind', but now my mind has been changed. This is a total grind, and FD can keep it.

I understand their intention of making the ranks more meaningful by making them more difficult to achieve, but this is putting the cart in front of the horse. Before it becomes difficult to achieve it should be worth achieving.

I think it would be worth achieving in the end, when they release Federal Corvette and Imperial Cutter, but not for now, which is why I'm currently not eager to get the top ranks. I still need to grind a ton of cash to buy those two ships even if they are gonna be released tomorrow.:p

Thanks, seem in-line with my experience. i guess my target is to reach both King and Admiral by the end of next week.

Your kind of dedicated people are really admiral-ble. It would help a lot if you could count missions for one of the higher ranks!:D

So are the empire promotion missions working or not?

All I want is one promotion mission so I can get Barron and my clipper but I have not seen as promotion mission for ages, I am allied with the empire and the local factions but just not getting anywhere.

Being allied has nothing to do with whether you will get the naval missions, but you can get better paid missions in those stations. In my model getting Baron requires about 150 missions for that rank or 534 missions in total. You can choose a cluster with a lot of Empire minor factions and do all the missions they list.

In my experience it still usually took around 4+ days of 100% dedicated mission hauling, both regular and donation missions, to go from No rank to Baron. In my case of having too much time/playing a lot in weekends, that was 6+ hours of gameplay per day doing stuff that I hated. (Going back and fourth)

The whole thing is wrong on so many angles. Wanting to advance in a Navy, aka a military, by doing fetch or pay missions.
At least in the past, we had to fight at least 1 or 2 Elite Anacondas.


Point is: I always agreed that it was a bit too easy, but forcing people to play through a ton of non-combat missions for progress in a NAVY is absurd.
(Both myself and other people from my private group have never, ever seen naval ascension missions if we tried to advance via bounty hunting)

I guess the navy also need some talents specialized in logistics.:D It actually requires some IRL logistic skills to manage a multi-station trade route when I pick all the hauling and sourcing missions.
 
Good post Kobune, you are getting rep from me

-Why didn’t we know this earlier?
“The information is not visible to the player by design, so we answer questions but would not put it in a FAQ unless the developers change their mind and decide to make it more transparent. Exploring and discovering things on your own is a big part of the game after all. But feel free to share the information if you want.”

i do wish they would rethink this policy and start giving us more info about game mechanics.
im starting to get sick of guessing, and it turns out i get it wrong way to often for my liking.
and it seems i am not the only one that is frustrated, allot of the critique on the forum is about the lack of information.
and it would be good if we could get rid of as much negativity as possible from here, since a negative forum tends to have a cancer like effect and can be potentially lethal for games in the long run
 
Some kind of indication that the naval ranking wasn't broken would really be enough for me.

For example, after completing a few days worth of missions, a message from the naval officer telling you that they're keeping an eye on you and like what they're seeing. Something to that effect, with a little variation. Adding talks about upcoming promotions when you're getting closer.
 
Good post Kobune, you are getting rep from me



i do wish they would rethink this policy and start giving us more info about game mechanics.
im starting to get sick of guessing, and it turns out i get it wrong way to often for my liking.
and it seems i am not the only one that is frustrated, allot of the critique on the forum is about the lack of information.
and it would be good if we could get rid of as much negativity as possible from here, since a negative forum tends to have a cancer like effect and can be potentially lethal for games in the long run

I agree that less transparency usually generates more distrust. Just look at how many people (including me) claimed their account is bugged because they haven't seen a naval mission even after hundreds of regular missions are done. There could be some bugged accounts, but now the number appears much higher.

I'm kind of fine if I have to figure out some game mechanics by doing test myself or reading from others, but there is some limit that the devs may pay attention to fine-tune. The myth of naval progression has lived for almost the whole lifetime of the game until Atom recently clarified that it's not based on reputation. It's not impossible to apply a more scientific approach to test these things out, but without enough in-game visual feedback like in other games, it simply takes one or a few players too much time to figure out something that's even remotely close to the truth. It's good that we have some collective input in Samosa's thread. We'll see a clearer picture once more data become available.

Some kind of indication that the naval ranking wasn't broken would really be enough for me.

For example, after completing a few days worth of missions, a message from the naval officer telling you that they're keeping an eye on you and like what they're seeing. Something to that effect, with a little variation. Adding talks about upcoming promotions when you're getting closer.

I like this idea a lot! I'll try to post in the suggestion forum if it can catch some attention from the devs.
Suggestion post at https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=165491 and also added to the OP.
 
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mxcross2002

M
a big thumbs up and thanks for all the hard work , takes alot if not all the guess work out of it , it's a long road ahead .
 
Amazing work, and thanks for the effort of putting all the disparate sources of information together. Makes me wish I'd bothered with rank progression prior to 1.3, but oh well. Definitely not worth a dedicated grind now, knowing just how bad it is. I suppose now that you've documented just how insanely grindy it is, it'll be toned down a bit - even just reducing it by half would at least put the middling ranks into 'reasonable' territory, while still leaving the upper ranks very hard to reach.
 
Amazing work, and thanks for the effort of putting all the disparate sources of information together. Makes me wish I'd bothered with rank progression prior to 1.3, but oh well. Definitely not worth a dedicated grind now, knowing just how bad it is. I suppose now that you've documented just how insanely grindy it is, it'll be toned down a bit - even just reducing it by half would at least put the middling ranks into 'reasonable' territory, while still leaving the upper ranks very hard to reach.

My main point was to clear up the long-believed myth about reputation and naval progression. I think the proposed model can give players who want to achieve certain ranks some idea about the amount of work needed so they can make a better decision whether they want to dedicate to the rank grind. I'm not sure whether the current scale of progression is too big. It would take a player like me, between casual and hardcore, more than half year to reach the highest rank in ONE faction, if that player starts after 1.3.01 and doesn't use fast-track method. It may sound okay in the big picture if FD expect players to hang around for more than two years, as I don't think there will be higher ranks in the future updates.

Excellent work, taking this to the next level!

Thanks to your guide, more players can quickly count the missions at least for some lower ranks, otherwise it would take me 2 months to get one rank thus one data point.:p
 
My main point was to clear up the long-believed myth about reputation and naval progression. I think the proposed model can give players who want to achieve certain ranks some idea about the amount of work needed so they can make a better decision whether they want to dedicate to the rank grind. I'm not sure whether the current scale of progression is too big. It would take a player like me, between casual and hardcore, more than half year to reach the highest rank in ONE faction, if that player starts after 1.3.01 and doesn't use fast-track method. It may sound okay in the big picture if FD expect players to hang around for more than two years, as I don't think there will be higher ranks in the future updates.
It's definitely a good thing that people now at least have a measure for how much time they can expect to put into it. And, under other circumstances, I might not even consider half a year of doing a mission here and a mission there to be excessive. But the thing is, it wasn't like this for the first seven months after the game's release. It was changed to be like this after many people had already taken advantage of the old, trivial naval progression. In essence, it's another veteran bonus, and another 'screw you' to new players who missed the easy window and also lack the funds to do the fast track method (assuming that won't be patched out).

Now, for my part, it's not too big a deal. I am a veteran, and while I didn't do the naval progression in the easy window (I always assumed it was a placeholder, given how superficial it was, and I didn't want to lock myself out of the real naval progression once they implemented something interesting), I do have the means to do the fast track method if I want to. But what if I was a new player, who didn't have 30 million to spare? Why should they be forced through a half-year grind which a large portion of the player population were allowed, for over half a year, to go through in a week or less? If the change was less extreme, and especially if it was a change towards harder, more involved and interesting missions, rather than simply more of them, it wouldn't really matter - that would count as an improvement, a missing feature finally implemented. It WAS too easy before (hence why I assumed it was unfinished), but this way of progressing is exactly the same as before, still technically easy, just far slower and far, FAR more boring. It's the kind of change I'd have expected back during the beta, but not in the released game. And it's another one of those 'percieved injustices' that others have posted about on this forum, that do a great job at just making people angry and disillusioned.

So, what should they do? If you ask me, rip out the entire system. All of it. Then hand-craft a set of long and involved progression missions for each rank, with a set of requirements to be able to get each - these could be based on Pilot's Federation rankings, faction reputations, number of recently completed missions (to show that you're an active supporter), and/or many other things - and if there was a little grind involved in meeting the pre-reqs, that would be ok, but not six months worth. But the main barrier to progression should not be meeting the prerequisites, but being able to complete the missions. At the higher ranks, they should be long, involved and difficult. I wouldn't mind missions that took several hours each and posed a real risk of failure due to the opposition involved, or caused you to tank your reputation with an opposing power due to the actions you had to take. Remember the missions from Frontier? You had to photograph secret installations, bomb bases, and complete other actually difficult tasks to get the medals.

Obviously, plantary missions are out for the time being, but we could have:
- Missions to gather close-range photography on well-defended installations, where you'd need either a mastery of stealth or evasive flying to get in and out in one piece
- Missions to sabotage capital ships by delivering a specialized limpet mine to a specific subsystem
- False-flag assasination missions where your target is in a well defended convoy, where your ship is fitted with a fake transponder to play out two other factions against each other
- Missions based on the existing conflict zone and RES mechanics but with power-specific goals and opposition, and spawned specifically for the progression missions
- And anything else the imagination can come up with

In short - make it interesting, make it relevant, make it feel like you're actually taking part in a cold-war faction struggle. Right now, it's still the same placeholder system we have had since naval progression was first implemented, it's just been changed to severely disadvantage anyone who is late to the party.
 
In short - make it interesting, make it relevant, make it feel like you're actually taking part in a cold-war faction struggle. Right now, it's still the same placeholder system we have had since naval progression was first implemented, it's just been changed to severely disadvantage anyone who is late to the party.

This is what ED is feeling like the more I play. If you were early you get the discount insurance and were able to take advantage of rare trades, normal trading and bounty hunting before the devs decided to nerf everything. One bonus for us noobs is ships are cheaper now. That's about it. Now power play is g up trading. Thanks Hudson supporters for turning my back woods trade route to mush. Now I get to RES camp. Joy.
 
I'm suscribing to thread but will now count my missions for rank up, if that helps. Currently Post Officer (rep went back to friendly with the frakking decay) and Baron.
I hit Post Officer in 1.2 and haven't done any mission with feds since, but I have done missions with Empire after 1.3.01.
 
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I do agree a little with the "things were easier in the beginning", it isn't an all-encompassing "everyone who started before me got a big shiny win button" though.

I didn't rares trade, even though it would have been the fastest trading cash below a 100t+ ship. I spent 2 weeks scratching my empire faction up to Baron to get the Clipper in my old Asp.
Getting the last rank up to Post Commander pre-1.3 was a week of evenings grinding around Hors (oo-err!).

I realise that is subjective and I am also irritated when I recall people going from Post commander to Admiral in 6 hours on the weekend 1.3 launched. I suppose we have to take the game as it finds us, otherwise the green-eyed monster will drive us mad :)

To clarify, I was a Dec 16th "Freegle" pre-launch buyer. didn't get in on the KS (too suspicious / cash-strapped) or Beta :)
 
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It's frustrating that so much game data is kept so vague. I know it must be nice for the devs as they can tweak things behind the scenes for balance.


Stern Winter suggested a very good idea that I feel strikes a perfect balance here. When we achieve certain "milestone" in our contribution to a certain major faction (maybe for every skill point earned), we receive a message in the Comms panel saying something like, "Your Federal leaning hasn't gone unnoticed. We appreciate your contribution to the Federation. Keep up the good work and you will be promoted soon". In this way, even without a visual progress bar, players can still get a feedback that they are on track towards their goal, or even count their milestones, if they wish, to get an idea about how far they are away from the next rank.

Stern Winter's suggestion seems perfect to me. The last thing I want is for ED to turn into a series of progress meters, which it already has to a large degree, unfortunately. Messages from various contacts can allow things to stay personal and focused on advancing a narrative. There's no story or immersion in- 'I was flying around doing missions, and my progress bar went up'.
 
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My opinion: ranking is way too fast and easy, even without little tricks like sitting in a station and doing donation missions.
 
My opinion: ranking is way too fast and easy, even without little tricks like sitting in a station and doing donation missions.

I am not too worried about the speed of promotions ect..

All I need to prove that it is working, like a progress bar.
 
This is what ED is feeling like the more I play. If you were early you get the discount insurance and were able to take advantage of rare trades, normal trading and bounty hunting before the devs decided to nerf everything. One bonus for us noobs is ships are cheaper now. That's about it. Now power play is g up trading. Thanks Hudson supporters for turning my back woods trade route to mush. Now I get to RES camp. Joy.

You forgot all the "First!" discoveries from those who were able to use their Gamma accounts. They locked down inhabited space, and took all the trips to the core, etc...

- - - Updated - - -

There's no story or immersion in- 'I was flying around doing missions, and my progress bar went up'.

Some of us like to know where we stand. :)
 
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