General / Off-Topic The Germany must go out of the EU ?

[Fyrd Judge]

They have to strip all power from national governments and had it to Brussels, have one army, one currency and economic convergence and one voice for a union to work. America is a good example.

Look in the UK, we went reverse with handing parliaments to Scotland and Wales with limited power, all that did was create friction amongst the people within a union and a future of one people trying to break away. A union only works with one parliament and having many with in it with difference goals, then that is a recipe for disaster.

 

[Surfinjo]

There was supposed to be economic convergence, clearly this does not exist across the eurozone (not even among all the more "important" countries IMO).

Convergence was considered so important it was enshrined in the eurozone's founding treaty -- and so the current eurozone cannot work ... unless it becomes a fiscal/transfer union too.

Everything we see now is can-kicking and plaster-sticking.

The UK argument though is that that convergence was pused forward too quickly. Seems this has been the case

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They have to strip all power from national governments and had it to Brussels, have one army, one currency and economic convergence and one voice for a union to work. America is a good example.

Look in the UK, we went reverse with handing parliaments to Scotland and Wales with limited power, all that did was create fiction amongst the people within a union and a future of one people trying to break away. A union only works with one parliament and having many with in it with difference goals, then that is a recipe for disaster.

Not necessarily. Scare mongering by the anit-Europeans.

Perhaps it might also be pointed out that the unionists in Westminster ran around Europe generating opposition to that very process. Seems they found Europe quite handy when it suited them.

Just saying.

 

[Fyrd Judge]

Seems they found Europe quite handy when it suited them.

Just saying.

When you see the reality of the choices we had in the 70s, which was we had no choice. The EU was going to place all the bureaucratic red tape on us for us continuing trade with countries that we were already having trade with before the EU was created and labour we sending this country to the abyss with strikes every week. This is the only reason why we are in it, it is the only threat we have if we vote next year to get out. It is all about trade and nothing else. I want out , not because i am anti European, i want out because i am anti EU unelected leadership dictatorship where no individual in the EU has the power to get rid of by election, if we think they are crap.

We have the Commonwealth, the largest economic block of countries in the world, it is this what we should now be concentrating on.

 

[huwthomas]

The UK argument though is that that convergence was pused forward too quickly. Seems this has been the case

What we're seeing now, with laws and reforms apparently being imposed on the Greek people without their consent (despite having had a referendum!) is an attempt to compel convergence after the fact. It would be more credible as an attempt to really solve the problem, if it were accompanied by a sustainable debt settlement.

Perhaps it might also be pointed out that the unionists in Westminster ran around Europe generating opposition to that very process. Seems they found Europe quite handy when it suited them.

What I saw was Scottish voters (and indeed other secessionists) being correctly advised that they couldn't count on being waved back through into the EU if they decided to secede from the state from which their membership derived in the first place.

If we had never joined the EU, it wouldn't even have been an issue

 

[Surfinjo]

What I saw was Scottish voters (and indeed other secessionists) being correctly advised that they couldn't count on being waved back through into the EU if they decided to secede from the state from which their membership derived in the first place.

If we had never joined the EU, it wouldn't even have been an issue

You may havem and undoubtedly did see many things. But that isn't the issue, is it?

 

[huwthomas]

You may havem and undoubtedly did see many things. But that isn't the issue, is it?

Maybe I misunderstood you, were you saying that EU membership was helpful to the unionists in the referendum debate?

If so then my point stands: a UK that was not a member of the EU, would not have to address claims of "automatic continuing membership" by secessionists in the first place.

 

[Patrick_68000]

What Germany should do is make a pact with the UK and reform Europe.

A nightmare ultraliberal capitalism ...



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I love France )

Its cheese ?

 

[Surfinjo]

Maybe I misunderstood you, were you saying that EU membership was helpful to the unionists in the referendum debate?

If so then my point stands: a UK that was not a member of the EU, would not have to address claims of "automatic continuing membership" by secessionists in the first place.

No, the issue you are arguing is separate and nothing to do with the topic of the thread. You do seem strangely determined to pursue it. May I suggest you start another thread rather than jijack this one?

 

[huwthomas]

No, the issue you are arguing is separate and nothing to do with the topic of the thread. You do seem strangely determined to pursue it. May I suggest you start another thread rather than jijack this one?

I was addressing a point you brought up.

 

[Krieger]

The other major issue was, you have many states in the EU who should have never been allowed in, they were basket case economies. Greek politicians let their own people down by fiddling their economy books to get into the EU, purely to get access to EU cash. Portugal, Spain, Ireland also were countries that were destined to be fed EU cash to prop their economies. So really I don't see it as German fault i see the fault as being shared across the board of all of them, because they were all fooling each other.

And it proves, Margaret Thatcher was right, thank god she kept us out of this.

You probably have to thank George Soros for that.

 

[Surfinjo]

You probably have to thank George Soros for that.

Let's not have too many villens.

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I was addressing a point you brought up.

Nope.....

 

[Gédéon_Lecanard]

We have the Commonwealth, the largest economic block of countries in the world, it is this what we should now be concentrating on.

While I share your view over EU being a little more than a buraucratic despotism (and I might add an utter social failure) and that it should be completely revised, for your own sake I'd like to laugh at some of your arguments:

-UK and Germany should reform the EU. Right. This will not happen, since your countries economies are only sustainable *thanks* to europe. And as in any successful business, client is king.

-UK should leave the EU. Please, be my guest, we'll watch the result with the utmost interest, and maybe a giant bowl of popcorns too. Seriously, again you are dependant of that market. Leaving it? Cameron knows better. Not to mention that your american allies will lose quite a lot of interest in you. And probably concentrate their efforts on Germany. Which does absolutely not want to leave the EU.

-Commonwealth. Come on! For real? That's old. And quite useless, as far as trade goes, doesn't it? It's merely a remnant of UK's colonial past, one you put on a chemney and stare at while mumbling "aaaah those were the days". France's bonds with most of its ex-colonies in Africa alone are way more efficient in that regard, even now. Granted, the chineses are chomping through them pretty fast.

Now let's be serious. You are here to stay, as all of us. There's no going back, and we should concentrate on fixing that giant mess instead.

 

[Adept]

-UK should leave the EU. Please, be my guest, we'll watch the result with the utmost interest, and maybe a giant bowl of popcorns too. Seriously, again you are dependant of that market. Leaving it? Cameron knows better. Not to mention that your american allies will lose quite a lot of interest in you. And probably concentrate their efforts on Germany. Which does absolutely not want to leave the EU.

The "leave the EU" has gotten really old. UK has become a real problem child in the EU, wanting to skim the benefits but to stay one foot outside of the union. I blame the trashy newspapers in England, who stoke nationalistic nonesense and feed people disinformation about the EU all the time. I'm a news junkey, and I love newspapers, but when I'm over in the UK I can't find anything worth while to read. (BBC is good though).