I am disheartened, my fellow commanders

[medwyn]

I wouldn't say I am a fanboy, I enjoy the game and understand the current limitations. I think Elite: Dangerous has some very specific challenges not least that there is a perceived lack of depth, for a game that was created 30 years ago. It also has a problem on the horizon in the shape of No Man's Sky and Star Citizen. That all said, I think Elite is still a great game even in its current state, what is different to this breed of games to the games of the last decade, is that it has refused to dumb down.

Like the games of 30 years ago, you are still required to use some of your imagination in order to get the most out of the game. It doesn't serve it all up on a plate for you, you still have to engage your brain and think. And I maybe in some danger when I say that it is typical of the innovation you see in the British and French Software Industry, rather than the cardboard cut out dumbed down games we get out of the States.

The question is then if it was a good idea to create a remake 30 years later without considering how the games industry had been developed during this period.
I'm a '84-er but I understand how different the quality is today one can expect and how this evolution sets the new standards with prominent examples - does FD aware of all this when they set their codes to determine the possibilities of their game?
A simple remake with denying the whole 30 years advancement of game elements may be ok for a low budget fun browser game but not for a grandiose 10-years plan.
I hope FD is capable of catching up, sometimes I doubt it.

 

[Luniticisi]

"it's an ocean with the depth of a puddle"

That's a bit harsh on the puddle.

I've not loaded up the game since 1.3

 

[Nicodemus]

While I mostly agree with a lot of the comments brought up here it has to be said that this game was never going to get everything right out of the box. It has got some things very right and some things very wrong, but it has to be remembered that to correct the things that are very wrong will take some patience from us and some communication from FD. What we currently have are the foundations for a very good game. In essence we do have an updated version of a 30 year old game, it is enjoyable but it also is a bit shallow, just like the original one was. This isn't a bad thing per se, but it does require more communication from FD about what is happening than we currently have.

A game like this needs time to develop, a case in point is EvE online which upon release was even shallower than Elite is now. However given time and a lot of patience EvE has developed into something a lot more complex, and this also will hopefully be the case of Elite. The one thing that both games have done is build a workable universe and built upon it brick by brick, sometimes a wall needs to be knocked down and redone when it transpires that it's a bit wonky but in general it's adding to the game. It can be infuriatingly slow sometimes though to get the wall redone but I for one much prefer this way of building the game than the way that SC is being made.

For me I'm playing this game as a casual player knowing full well that it shouldn't be solely judged on it's current situation, I enjoy it for what it is and hope for it to improve. In the meantime I'm playing many other games and doing a lot of other RL things. If the game has lost a bit of it's luster now, engage your time in something else for a bit and come back when something is added that adds some more flavour to the game. Elite only becomes a grind and boring if you let it become so, but this is true for any game, and the best way to counter this by making sure you go and do something different for a while.

 

[finchywinchy]

Like the games of 30 years ago, you are still required to use some of your imagination in order to get the most out of the game.

Nonono. The games of 30 years ago were limited by the nature of the hardware they ran on and the experience of the game designers. 30 years on, expectations are higher. ED looks and sounds great - that's to be expected, with much more powerful hardware. However, what is called the game does not represent 30 advancement in game development. It represents either hubris on the part of Derek, believing his own hype, as a progenitor of the genre, or a very-well timed and well-managed cash grab - maximum gain for minimum effort. IMO.

 

[PavelKCZ]

A "persistent universe" would rock!

Like doing damage to a NPC who then somehow escapes, only to see them later limping into a star port to repair it's same damages from your battle. Or, when you kill a high profile NPC target, they are dead, instead of seeing them again afterwards a little while later alive just like nothing ever happened.

I am affraid that this is not possible in ED. The NPCs does not exist at all as a datastructure on some server. They are only ad hoc generated in your instance which you are (in Open) or are not (in Solo) sharing with other players. When they are damaged and flee, they are deleted and non existent. If you try to follow them (with FSW scanner), they are freshly generated after your jump.

 

[Evil]

Yeah, we need more player depth, more information and persistent changes to our players from the actions weve done, and those need to have small affects on the galaxy that provide correlation with us on an individual level.

 

[medwyn]

I am affraid that this is not possible in ED. The NPCs does not exist at all as a datastructure on some server. They are only ad hoc generated in your instance which you are (in Open) or are not (in Solo) sharing with other players. When they are damaged and flee, they are deleted and non existent. If you try to follow them (with FSW scanner), they are freshly generated after your jump.

..this is exactly the "great potential" of ED a lot of us had been fouled by.
There's no potential in this current structure at all and FD seems reluctant or in lack of skills/capabilities to create persistency in this game.
I hope they prove me wrong but hope is always the least valuable currency one can have.

 

[Privata]

I like that our actions do allmost nothing as its like in real life you need an army if you want to change the world

 

[dtrulez]

So many posts about the lackluster that game is. Let's just face it, ED is Google Sky with the ability to fly a ship, nothing more, nothing less. We are talking about the great potential the titles has, but I don't see it delivered anytime soon, it will be a big long and desperate waiting, with small chunks of useless updates.

 

[PavelKCZ]

..this is exactly the "great potential" of ED a lot of us had been fouled by.
There's no potential in this current structure at all and FD seems reluctant or in lack of skills/capabilities to create persistency in this game.
I hope they prove me wrong but hope is always the least valuable currency one can have.

This is not about lack of skills/capabilities, it is a purely technical problem. You simply cannot have persistent and "living" datastructures (NPCs, economy etc.) without real application server, where the world simulation is running in real life/real time. This is the way, how traditional MMOs (like Lineage2 or WoW) are working. There are server on which parts of the game world (zones) are actually running and when you wound a wolf to 50% and logoff and your friend subsequently log into the same part of map, he will find the wounded wolf there.
But this is not the case of ED, because this whole Galaxy is way to big to be zoned on servers. So the whole game is only instanced on client PCs and there is only a shared database and players are doing only "updates" to this database called Background Simulation.

 

[Ian Skippy]

On the subject of Minor Factions, and player influence:

Sure - your actions can influence what faction has more control in a system. You can (over time), see this:

LUI BAJA Freedom Party: 50%
LUI BAJA Corporate: 45%
LUI BAJA Mafia: 5%

turn into this...

LUI BAJA Corporate: 50%
LUI BAJA Freedom Party: 43%
LUI BAJA Mafia: 7%

With little Green arrows of course.

Seriously - that's a payoff to the player of some sort? How does that impact anything, at all, ever? In some way that you really notice? Who gives a damn which Faction is at the top of the list? The missions will be the same, except the Faction offering it will be different.

And on trade and missions:

Why is that a station that only produces Gold and Palladium seem to have little demand for FOOD? Sure, you'll see a Charity Mission... "LUI BAJA Needs 6 Food Cartridges! We'll pay you $2,000 to find them! Help us!" ... a) does anyone except a newbie in a Sidewinder ever go out of their way to do this and b) why isn't Lui Baja freaking STARVING to death?!? Why aren't nearly ALL the missions at that station basically "Bring us food, beer, and tobacco. We'll pay you 4x the going rate." No one ever really seems to need Food, Tea, or Liquor in this game. They just want Performance Enhancers. You'll profit $900-1100 for every ton of steroids you bring in, but strangely groceries aren't a priority.

Just a friendly suggestion: you may want to learn the basics of something before you bash it. I care about faction influence, as it does change the missions available, among other things (trigger civil war/expansion). Extraction/refinery stations do care about food, that is why you can almost always sell food at a profit there. The missions for food pop up when a station is in a state of (near) famine. Plenty of systems (heck, even LHS3447 right now) are in such a state, and offer plenty of food missions. Many people do them, too. For practical reasons (increase faction reputation) or for roleplay reasons (not wanting to see your favourite system collapse). Btw, they pretty much only put Lakon canopies on, well, Lakon spaceships. Lakon ships are kinda the place where one would expect a Lakon canopy, you know?

Sandbox games are real easy to bash, so there is no need to make stuff up.

 

[Cradle2Grave]

I wouldn't say I am a fanboy, I enjoy the game and understand the current limitations. I think Elite: Dangerous has some very specific challenges not least that there is a perceived lack of depth, for a game that was created 30 years ago. It also has a problem on the horizon in the shape of No Man's Sky and Star Citizen. That all said, I think Elite is still a great game even in its current state, what is different to this breed of games to the games of the last decade, is that it has refused to dumb down.

Like the games of 30 years ago, you are still required to use some of your imagination in order to get the most out of the game. It doesn't serve it all up on a plate for you, you still have to engage your brain and think. And I maybe in some danger when I say that it is typical of the innovation you see in the British and French Software Industry, rather than the cardboard cut out dumbed down games we get out of the States.

The games of "30 years ago" were made the best they could at the time. They didn't choose to make 'em dull (by today's standards) by design.

 

[imski]

I am unable to play this game for longer than an hour anymore

You're actions feel, just, bleh. While I understand that you are one of many people in a ship, doing things, but I have single handedly annihilated an armada of ships, all flagged as criminals, in the same system, and there is still a crime problem. I could not take the fight to their leader, I cannot do anything to stem the tide, while I can eliminate thousands flying their banner, and alas, nothing transpires because of this except for my bankroll getting just that little bit fatter.

This is endemic of the entire game, and it is SAD. Trading, exploring, hunting, fighting in wars, hell even participating in powerplay, IT DOES NOTHING except for increase your credit count. I like to think I am a person motivated by idea's rather than gain. I am an optimist, an activist, to see things get better is all I want in life, not riches, but this is all that the game is giving me. Yet things stay ever static.

I do not wish to be an action hero, saving the day, but I want to see my influence in the game world in some form, other than the wreck of a scumbag pirate. Things need to move, stuff needs to go on, and I need to be able to influence this confluence of power, up or down.

Its a great simulation, it's absolutely brilliant, beautiful in both is complexity, and its aesthetic, but this crippling factor drags it down to being a ocean with the depth of a puddle, and it is so damn disheartening.

Take a break! It doesn't cost you any subs, just disappear play something else and see if the announcement at Gamescon interest you. There's no point driving yourself into the ground if you're not enjoying it.

 

[Cradle2Grave]

I don't think that 'taking a break' from this game is the solution. Sorry.

 

[DrSpin]

On the subject of Minor Factions, and player influence:

Sure - your actions can influence what faction has more control in a system. You can (over time), see this:

LUI BAJA Freedom Party: 50%
LUI BAJA Corporate: 45%
LUI BAJA Mafia: 5%

turn into this...

LUI BAJA Corporate: 50%
LUI BAJA Freedom Party: 43%
LUI BAJA Mafia: 7%

With little Green arrows of course.

Seriously - that's a payoff to the player of some sort? How does that impact anything, at all, ever? In some way that you really notice? Who gives a damn which Faction is at the top of the list? The missions will be the same, except the Faction offering it will be different.

And on trade and missions:

Why is that a station that only produces Gold and Palladium seem to have little demand for FOOD? Sure, you'll see a Charity Mission... "LUI BAJA Needs 6 Food Cartridges! We'll pay you $2,000 to find them! Help us!" ... a) does anyone except a newbie in a Sidewinder ever go out of their way to do this and b) why isn't Lui Baja freaking STARVING to death?!? Why aren't nearly ALL the missions at that station basically "Bring us food, beer, and tobacco. We'll pay you 4x the going rate." No one ever really seems to need Food, Tea, or Liquor in this game. They just want Performance Enhancers. You'll profit $900-1100 for every ton of steroids you bring in, but strangely groceries aren't a priority.

I completely agree with both your points here. It's always seemed very weird to me that a starving station is focussed on anything else but getting food (and okay, maybe only some people are starving, but still the price of food should be through the roof).

I'm totally uninterested in Powerplay, or anything which involves me in guild-like behaviour. I just want more interesting missions and a more believable world.

 

[Kernel Kwatz!]

I don't think that 'taking a break' from this game is the solution. Sorry.

Why not? I think we would all love to see ED become the bestest game ever but if that doesn't happen and the OP is disheartened by the state of the game then a break from playing seems like the sensible course to take.

 

[hems303]

Just don't play the game if you don't like it. There are many others to choose from. But why do you have to come on the forums to spread negativity, people read this before buying it, and reading your post doesn't help. I like the game, it's empty enough for me to insert my own meaning onto everything I do. I think it's becoming clear that this is a game for people with strong imaginations. If you need a story line there are many other games out there. Or maybe come to the forums with ideas on what you would like to see in game that you think might make the game better, I think you will get a better response that way.

BANG, nail whacked squarely on the head.. have some REP Commander!

 

[Ian Skippy]

Why not? I think we would all love to see ED become the bestest game ever but if that doesn't happen and the OP is disheartened by the state of the game then a break from playing seems like the sensible course to take.

Check his post history and you'll see. Taking a break is not negative enough, you have to say there is no hope and ED will never be fun. That is what all the cool kids say.

- - - Updated - - -

I completely agree with both your points here. It's always seemed very weird to me that a starving station is focussed on anything else but getting food (and okay, maybe only some people are starving, but still the price of food should be through the roof).

I'm totally uninterested in Powerplay, or anything which involves me in guild-like behaviour. I just want more interesting missions and a more believable world.

The starving systems I am in only have charity missions, plus you dont even get influence points for bounty hunting or such. Check galnet for recent famines and check it out.

 

[Jex =TE=]

What so many people forget, is that Elite: Dangerous is not a 'modern' game, it is a remake of a classic game. The original Elite, had the same "problems" as you put it. And yet is regarded as a landmark achievement in computer gaming (rightly so). The aim of the game is not to get the biggest bank balance. It is not to have a lasting effect on in a vast galaxy (other than exploration). It is , quite simply, to become Elite (the clue therefore is in the title!).

Powerplay attempts to move the game to a more 'modern' footing, and it succeeds to some extent. Community goals do something similar.

Whilst I do sympathise with what you are saying, I think you were expecting a different game, and you sound burnt out. I'd recommend you go play something else for a while. I'd highly recommend EvE Online if you still want the space trading simulation vibe.

The original game did not have the same issues because it was the first of it's type. In 30 years, games have come a long way and so have our expectations. Devs need to move with the times. Grinding to have some word at the end of my name is meaningless - what happens when you achieve the rank of Elite? Is there any reason to do so - will the game change or will you be shooting the same AI and playing the same game as before? If the title is meaningless, it becomes pointless.

For me, getting Elite rank is pointless - I see no value in it at all because nothing around me is going to change. Whether I'm novice or Elite - I'm in exactly the same universe doing exactly the same things so who cares what Rank I have - nobody is going to care.

 

[Cradle2Grave]

Why not? I think we would all love to see ED become the bestest game ever but if that doesn't happen and the OP is disheartened by the state of the game then a break from playing seems like the sensible course to take.

Yes, that would be great. A break doesn't mean FD'll fix it though. But, we live in hope.