Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Part the Second [Now With Added Platforms].

[Belzmort]

Setting aside the modes altogether - if there is a 200% increase in Player traffic in a system (regardless of mode they were in), then I'd like to see a 200% increase in NPC traffic (for ALL modes - not just solo).

Whilst I have no real issues with your proposal a few posts ago, the above quoted might cause some issues. If you're in a starter system during a sale, then you're going to see lots of traffic in Open, then doubling that traffic with NPC will just cause either the servers to melt down, or people on slow rigs to really suffer. For your suggestion to work, there has to be an upper limit, just to keep the game playable for the vast majority.

Now I have no interest in PP, but seeing more NPC's would be quite fun to see, especially if it was connected to some Galnet story. Anyway I am out in the black at the moment and have no idea what's going on in "civilised space", but hoping to see some changes from 1.4 that either incentivises PP (to the point I am interested in playing), more depth to missions, more CG's, otherwise I'll be on another trip out waiting for 1.5.

 

[FuzzySpider]

Secondly, QziQza does have a point, that what may seem like a small change can have more wide ranging consequences. To use your example of 12 Anaconda players trying to blockade a station, so putting a similar number of equivalent NPCs into everyone's instance is actually very unbalanced, as presumably only a percentage of Open players would be instanced with the player Anacondas, yet every Solo player would have them as opposition, making Solo very much more challenging than Open, much less fair, to use the Open only people's argument back at them.

It obviously needs tweaking and adjustments, but the actual idea has merit. In fact I am now in agreement with the ghist of the idea. Basically a heavy power PC presence in a particular system or cluster of systems should see a rise of NPC power members of the same type in that system. Not just in solo but in open too. And not just players playing in open but players playing in solo.

Think of it like this. When players in open do a lot of work for a particular faction (for example, patrons principles in the Nehet system), that faction will gain more influence. It doesn't matter whether those players have played in open or solo, they're still affecting the faction equally (as they should). Now if a lot of players head towards a system to interdict and interfere with power expansion that should have an affect across all mods. Not because it's PvP but because it's the general background politics of the universe.

This isn't a PvP dynamic, this is more PvE. Players are affecting the universe. Without something like this solo and open are indeed split as the open crowd want.

 

[TruffleSnout]

For your suggestion to work, there has to be an upper limit, just to keep the game playable for the vast majority.

Absolutely. Something like this would definitely need a balancing pass both for performance, and skill level (side note: I'd really like to see a difficulty slider that would adjust NPC spawns).

associating SOLO players with the word FEAR..

Apologies, that wasn't really my intention. I'm actually a Solo-only player myself. Never logged into Open. Not out of fear of PvP, either. I just don't like communicating with other people in real time. Takes up way too much mental processing. That was more of a bone to the prevailing Open advocate attitudes. "Playing to the crowd", if you will.

 

[QziQza]

It obviously needs tweaking and adjustments, but the actual idea has merit. In fact I am now in agreement with the ghist of the idea. Basically a heavy power PC presence in a particular system or cluster of systems should see a rise of NPC power members of the same type in that system. Not just in solo but in open too. And not just players playing in open but players playing in solo.

Think of it like this. When players in open do a lot of work for a particular faction (for example, patrons principles in the Nehet system), that faction will gain more influence. It doesn't matter whether those players have played in open or solo, they're still affecting the faction equally (as they should). Now if a lot of players head towards a system to interdict and interfere with power expansion that should have an affect across all mods. Not because it's PvP but because it's the general background politics of the universe.

This isn't a PvP dynamic, this is more PvE. Players are affecting the universe. Without something like this solo and open are indeed split as the open crowd want.

it doesn't matter how good an idea it is in principle, it is basically a means for open players to effect a block in an entire system to any player in solo... all it would take is large presence in a single instance in open to create a total block of that system in all instances in solo.. like that wont get abused. would that mechanic not allow groups of players to close of and own a system permanently?? the biggest cause of problems in this game is down to minority groups or individuals who abuse mechanics or the like.. something like this could easily turn eve-esque

 

[Jockey79]

Absolutely. Something like this would definitely need a balancing pass both for performance, and skill level (side note: I'd really like to see a difficulty slider that would adjust NPC spawns).

The problem with that would be people assuming every scared, cowardly solo player would be in hiding with the slider set to zero NPCs.
Because those accusations are not all ready been thrown about here are they

I feel it is best if the spawn rates are out of our control, it's one less thing Solo players can be accused of "cheating" with.

 

[Mouse]

Just off the top of my head,

1. The discrepancy in impact between open, group and solo modes.

2. Whether it's fair to advertise a game as an mmo, while offering little to no multiplayer content, and in some cases actually encourage players to shun playing with others.

We are back to this again??

There is no real discrepancy in impact between the modes. If you think the impact in Open is less than solo or group than look at the reason you think that. Other players... other players that you chose to play in an environment in.

And ED is an MMO. An MMO gives you a chance to interact with others it does not ensure that you do. ED is a game that allows single player style of play, it allows co-op style of play and it allows MMO style, plus no matter how you play it allows you to effect the Universe in your own small way.


As for the cloning Idea. I could see merit in it, if all modes cloned in the other, it could give pirates NPC's with the cargo they dream of if they happen upon in open the npc clone of a trader from solo with rare cargo. But at the same I can see how the cloning could be massivly abused. So I'm not fully sold on the idea.

 

[Jockey79]

.... would that mechanic not allow groups of players to close of and own a system permanently??

Something FD does not want in the players hands - they did state that any form of blockade will be done by them, not us.

 

[FuzzySpider]

it doesn't matter how good an idea it is in principle, it is basically a means for open players to effect a block in an entire system to any player in solo... all it would take is large presence in a single instance in open to create a total block of that system in all instances in solo.. like that wont get abused. would that mechanic not allow groups of players to close of and own a system permanently??

They wouldn't be able to block, merely increase the presence of that particular power within the system. Remember that NPCs would only be targeting rival powers entering the system. Other players, whether solo or open, would be unaffected by the NPCs.

The principle of it is not confined to open players - remember solo players would be having the same affect on the universe. Very simply the more player power activity in an area the more NPC power activity in the same area. It's just the principle of the players affecting the environment across all modes, not making life more or less difficult for open or solo.

 

[Belzmort]

The problem with that would be people assuming every scared, cowardly solo player would be in hiding with the slider set to zero NPCs.
Because those accusations are not all ready been thrown about here are they

I feel it is best if the spawn rates are out of our control, it's one less thing Solo players can be accused of "cheating" with.

I know Cody likes to keep a list of insults thrown at the solo/group crowd, but in all honesty do those insults really bother you? Personally I don't care what some pewpew player thinks of me. I am more than happy to muddle along in my own haphazard way, carebearing my way to the core.

 

[TruffleSnout]

As for the cloning Idea. I could see merit in it, if all modes cloned in the other, it could give pirates NPC's with the cargo they dream of if they happen upon in open the npc clone of a trader from solo with rare cargo. But at the same I can see how the cloning could be massivly abused. So I'm not fully sold on the idea.

Indeed, I've moved my position on this.

First, no longer cloning. Just increasing the % chance of encounter.
Secondly, no mode considerations. Solo Players would increase the % chance of Open NPC spawns just as much as Open players would increase % chance spawn of Solo NPCs.

 

[QziQza]

Apologies, that wasn't really my intention. I'm actually a Solo-only player myself. Never logged into Open. Not out of fear of PvP, either. I just don't like communicating with other people in real time. Takes up way too much mental processing. That was more of a bone to the prevailing Open advocate attitudes. "Playing to the crowd", if you will.

ah no worries some days i'm like an pet wolf with trigger words.. one minute im chewing through my latest toy, then the next....... lol

- - - Updated - - -

They wouldn't be able to block, merely increase the presence of that particular power within the system. Remember that NPCs would only be targeting rival powers entering the system. Other players, whether solo or open, would be unaffected by the NPCs.

The principle of it is not confined to open players - remember solo players would be having the same affect on the universe. Very simply the more player power activity in an area the more NPC power activity in the same area. It's just the principle of the players affecting the environment across all modes, not making life more or less difficult for open or solo.

ahh right, yeah that makes sense now.. thanks for explaining that (many patient people in this conversation +rep all round) i can go back to chewing my toy now lol

 

[Jockey79]

I know Cody likes to keep a list of insults thrown at the solo/group crowd, but in all honesty do those insults really bother you? Personally I don't care what some pewpew player thinks of me. I am more than happy to muddle along in my own haphazard way, carebearing my way to the core.

It's not just a case of who gets upset over what words, certain words trigger mod actions - Cody and his list is just his satire way of reminding people that name calling should have been left back on the playground when we were children and not brought on to game forums for 13+

Now if people want to have an enforced holiday from the forums, sure keep calling solo players cowards and such like, same goes for open advocates being called trolls and such like insults - surefire ways to say bye bye to the FD forums.

Griefer and pew pew seem to only be acceptable if not aimed directly at anyone, even then I'd say it is a fine line.

 

[Belzmort]

Indeed, I've moved my position on this.

First, no longer cloning. Just increasing the % chance of encounter.
Secondly, no mode considerations. Solo Players would increase the % chance of Open NPC spawns just as much as Open players would increase % chance spawn of Solo NPCs.

Whilst it may very well be a good idea, I wonder if the devs would even see it in this thread with how quickly it grows, tangents off, has a merge and repeats itself again and again and again. I know I enjoy reading and participating here, but I just have my doubts as to whether any devs would have the time to wade through it all.

 

[TruffleSnout]

I wonder if the devs would even see it in this thread

Agreed, very doubtful.

Though if we can come up with some sort of vague implementation ideas (like just how would we go about increasing the spawn rates - 24-hour lag using something similar to traffic reports at the system level?, etc...) then maybe we could drop something in the suggestion forum? At least in there the idea might get looked at and then dismissed out of hand as pure fantasy.

 

[QziQza]

Whilst it may very well be a good idea, I wonder if the devs would even see it in this thread with how quickly it grows, tangents off, has a merge and repeats itself again and again and again. I know I enjoy reading and participating here, but I just have my doubts as to whether any devs would have the time to wade through it all.

actually this is may be a suitable suggestion for that 'idea thread' Mr Maynard mentioned a few days back. if it is something that can be applied so as to have an effect on all modes, can result from actions in all modes, and is able to be scaled to suit all modes.. then its a great idea to look at, and something productive to have come out of all the noise lol

id say keep at it guys.. fatten it up some, and see where it takes you..

 

[Belzmort]

Agreed, very doubtful.

Though if we can come up with some sort of vague implementation ideas (like just how would we go about increasing the spawn rates - 24-hour lag using something similar to traffic reports at the system level?, etc...) then maybe we could drop something in the suggestion forum? At least in there the idea might get looked at and then dismissed out of hand as pure fantasy.

I would wait for some on the other side of the fence to pitch in, as it might satisfy those that think the current set up is unfair on Open players. An increase in NPC's number and ability should then quieten down some of the more vocal proponents of deleting solo/separate servers/separate save slots.

 

[Mouse]

Indeed, I've moved my position on this.

First, no longer cloning. Just increasing the % chance of encounter.
Secondly, no mode considerations. Solo Players would increase the % chance of Open NPC spawns just as much as Open players would increase % chance spawn of Solo NPCs.

I was reading without coffe, my appologies for missing the change.

 

[TruffleSnout]

I was reading without coffe, my appologies for missing the change.

No worries, this thread moves way too fast sometimes.

 

[Jockey79]

Indeed, I've moved my position on this.

First, no longer cloning. Just increasing the % chance of encounter.
Secondly, no mode considerations. Solo Players would increase the % chance of Open NPC spawns just as much as Open players would increase % chance spawn of Solo NPCs.

Spawn rates in CZ had been touched on a long time ago, never thought about SC / System spawns.
To be honest, I'd not mind seeing more NPCs about, make busy systems feel more alive and populated space feel, well.. populated

 

[Belzmort]

, and something productive to have come out of all the noise lol

Isn't that blasphemy?