The New Guilds and Player Owned Stations Discussion Thread.

[kilvenny]

No issue with player owned stations - just not sure how it would work in the current PG setup and with Solo and group options.

Guilds are called Powers currently - there needs to be more support for player interactions and assignment to tasks within powers including rankings. What I think would be cool is if factions were assigned to powers and instead of pledging just to a power you could also pledge to a faction in that power. The faction then becomes the "guild". This would then link faction to powers and make the political structure of PP more integrated

 

[Ozric]

I think you took that remark much more seriously than it was intended. At the same time, I am a little baffled by what some people here say about guilds, since for me they always tended to be fun multipliers, rather than any sort of issue.

It entirely depends on the guild or more to the point the people in charge of it. MahdDogg's latest blog was very well written around that area. In my personal experience once guilds/kinships start getting bigger and bigger within a game then the developers start adding content just to please the guilds, which means you end up in a situation where all of your play time is taken up by doing things just to make sure that the guild stays afloat and woe betide you if you ever wanted to go back to playing the game for your own enjoyment.

Personal experience only, obviously, but relevant none the less.

 

[Chann3l]

Since I'm somewhere in between I will habe to vote no on either. Player built and owned stations in currently uninhabited systems? Yes. Player owned stations from the currently existing pool of stations? No. In that scenario you would have guilds requesting docking tolls and blockading players from entering stations and other nonsense. In player built stations in uninhabited systems this is a non issue as there as 400 billion systems and those stations wouldn't have existed previously to begin with.

 

[Earthshine]

I think FD are on the right track when it comes to guilds, the powerplay mechanics are what I view as being a kind of controlled macro-scale guild. The issue (for me) is that being part of a power doesn't give enough player interaction (cooperation) because there is no straightforward mechanic to coordinate with other fellow members. Note: emphasis on straightforward...naturally I'm aware that the FD forums...other websites....reddit etc etc allow guild-like coordination...but frankly it seems like a pain to do...I don't want to search all over the place...I'd prefer to do it in the game.

Perhaps there ought to be sub-factions within the powers....perhaps with slightly differing agendas but ultimately utilising the existing powerplay mechanics. If each power had X number of sub-powers working for it then it may be possible to permit "guild" like communication channels and all the social and organisational benefits that you would expect. By utilising the existing PP mechanics it would not harm solo players (or players who do not want to join anything guild like).

How you would regulate such sub-factions I'm not sure, I can't see any real harm in permitting (perhaps limited number?) player created organisations...it would need a bit of monitoring I suppose.

Regarding player-build stations...mixed feelings. Sounds complicated and rather impractical...you'd need alot of players to chip in (read guild like behaviour) since a station couldn't reasonably be built remotely cheaply. Then what do you do with it....assign defences...patrol ships...friend/foe assignment....doesn't sound very Elite like to me. Permit guilds in order to permit player-run stations and you inevitably end up with fighting over territory that's defined by players not FD.

 

[Stigbob]

Exactly. These players cannot even participate in a forum poll without cheating and gaming the system to flip the results. I do not want these players having any more influence or control over the game, the systems, or stations than they already do. They will just find ways to abuse that as well.

Yep, Mr Braben opposes guilds because he believes they behave like "mafiosi" and he's right, Yaffle has posted about the number of sock-puppet's being used to alter this poll.

The sock-puppet masters do not have (and will never have) control over me as I blaze my own trail in and out of any station or system I want.

 

[Ozric]

Since I'm somewhere in between I will habe to vote no on either. Player built and owned stations in currently uninhabited systems? Yes. Player owned stations from the currently existing pool of stations? No. In that scenario you would have guilds requesting docking tolls and blockading players from entering stations and other nonsense. In player built stations in uninhabited systems this is a non issue as there as 400 billion systems and those stations wouldn't have existed previously to begin with.

That's the point though, you couldn't impose a toll as there's no way you could stop people who weren't in your instance from docking for free

 

[Cadoc]

It entirely depends on the guild or more to the point the people in charge of it. Mahdogg's latest blog was very well written around that area. In my personal experience once guilds/kinships start getting bigger and bigger within a game then the developers start adding content just to please the guilds, which means you end up in a situation where all of your play time is taken up by doing things just to make sure that the guild stays afloat and woe betide you if you ever wanted to go back to playing the game for your own enjoyment.

Personal experience only, obviously, but relevant none the less.

I get what you're saying. I always joined RP guilds and ones with a more general, casual focus, but there's certainly many clans out there that are VERY serious about their goals, strictly regulating member activity, requiring players to log on at certain times etc etc. However, that tends to be the case with progression-focused guilds and not to be funny or anything, there's no progression for guilds to be competitive about in Elite

 

[Ginrikuzuma]

At first I was surprised at the sudden outturn and the exponential growth.

But then I checked reddit...
Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure this would count as brigading and frowned upon elsewhere on reddit.

-snip-
Hey, it somehow makes sense in Powerplay, so I don't see that as a particularly potent argument against player ownership.

Except look at the general attitude to PP, its split the community with some liking it, others loathing it, some simply leaving the game (or at the very least PP).

I don't get why people are against this. If you don't want to take part in guilds just don't do it. I for one think that this will really add to the game and help player groups, which are the things that keep games going. Just my opinion on this.

Yes the whole "its only an option arguement" same can be made with PP and yet you have groups so vehemently absorbed with the whole "with us or against us" it would be of no surprise to me if you have guilds attacking anyone not with them.
As someone earlier said this would be no different to gangwars or somethings where you are trespassing in "our turf"

This. Though perhaps it's more a sign of my utter contempt of the current cultural requirement to have nineteen thousand 'facebook friends', while actually only 'liking' the vast majority because they endorse the same brand of bra/shoes/bag/coat/smart phone as you. If your friend list is so unwieldy as to require filters or exhaustive work to keep managed then I suspect the fault lies in the operation of said friend list or the user definition of friend.


Kids today. Bah, humbug. Etc.

Tell me abut it I'm constantly deleting people from my "friend list" I got maybe 29 at the moment and I'm considering deleted 4 people there

Then let me repeat the post that best summed it up (bold mine):

If there is no opt-out (and there can't be, with a single background sim) then no.

"Guilds" are not necessary. Go to reddit, go to any other forum you want, go to vent or teamspeak or mumbl or skype or whatsapp or facebook... any one of a hundred other message or communications applications. Voila! You can now declare yourselves a guild, coalition, alliance, society, faction or... y'know, a private group! The only possible reasons for guild support in-game are to build fame and/or notoriety and the ability to leverage your will against other people. Unfortunately for those desperate for guild support, these handfuls of players in their balkanised factions just aren't as important as HIP 74332 JET and don't have the right to decide how opt-out players play.

Again like I said, this would bring up the "with us or against us" Julissa summed it up well.


And I will also bring up my earlier remark on this that has long since been buried.

--snip--

However if you want to be a bit cynical on that, isn't powerplay, the very thing a lot of people hate just a glorified giant guild system. You have 10 "guilds" (the powers) some of which are in an alliance and work together (hudson + winter) you're alligned already (not necessary since we also have pirates) together by joining said "guild" and all these tasks for merits are grindy guild activities.

Taking a turn for the worse, I've read here on the forums of people attacking others due to RP-ing "blockades" based on what power they represent, it would not surprise me if these player-controlled stations/systems or guilds could just as happily "blockade" other players and killing anyone nearby.

 

[Scudmungus]

Mi found an share qualative an quantative data from published academic study showin:

-- guilds have impact on self esteem an enjoyment of game

dis influence can be positive an dis influence can be negative. Aal dependin on de minds an mons.

Not wantin to risk negativity by introducin guilds makin sense to mi. Stand to gain notin wi not aal ready gettin. Stand to risk much more. Till somone presentin study dat assures mi dat guilds gonna be makin tings intrinsically betta, sayin hell no.

Player influencin station an system? Ok wi got dis alreadi, in theory if not in functionin practice. Makin background sim clearer makin tings betta fah mi an mine - aal wi wantin.

 

[Ozric]

However, that tends to be the case with progression-focused guilds and not to be funny or anything, there's no progression for guilds to be competitive about in Elite

Not at the moment there isn't

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

Yep, Mr Braben opposes guilds because he believes they behave like "mafiosi" and he's right, Yaffle has posted about the number of sock-puppet's being used to alter this poll.

The sock-puppet masters do not have (and will never have) control over me as I blaze my own trail in and out of any station or system I want.

It's a pity it wasn't a public poll - that way we could see who voted - and when they joined the forums. My guess is these forums have suddenly become AWFULLY popular with lots of shiny new accounts today. *nudge-nudge* *wink-wink* Say no more! Know what I mean?

 

[Brusilov]

will never happen due to reasons...

 

[Jericho]

Heck yes.

 

[rudidev08]

I don't necessarily need to own a station, just have a corner of universe to invest in and call home. I'd settle for a hangar and condo

 

[Stigbob]

It's a pity it wasn't a public poll - that way we could see who voted - and when they joined the forums. My guess is these forums have suddenly become AWFULLY popular with lots of shiny new accounts today. *nudge-nudge* *wink-wink* Say no more! Know what I mean?

We should look on the bright side of this, by being caught by Yaffle trying to cheat in an online poll they've proven the dev's suspicions about negative guild behavior being both undesirable and unsuitable for this game.

Well done them.

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

We should look on the bright side of this, by being caught by Yaffle trying to cheat in an online poll they've proven the dev's suspicions about negative guild behavior being both undesirable and unsuitable for this game.

Well done them.

I tried to point out to them on that Reddit thread that they effectively sabotaged the poll (and by implication their goal) by doing this - guess what, I got downvoted

 

[andyraptor]

Mi found an share qualative an quantative data from published academic study showin:

-- guilds have impact on self esteem an enjoyment of game

dis influence can be positive an dis influence can be negative. Aal dependin on de minds an mons.

Not wantin to risk negativity by introducin guilds makin sense to mi. Stand to gain notin wi not aal ready gettin. Stand to risk much more. Till somone presentin study dat assures mi dat guilds gonna be makin tings intrinsically betta, sayin hell no.

Player influencin station an system? Ok wi got dis alreadi, in theory if not in functionin practice. Makin background sim clearer makin tings betta fah mi an mine - aal wi wantin.

Anyone translate this to the Queens English please ???

 

[StuartGT]

Mi found an share qualative an quantative data from published academic study showin:

-- guilds have impact on self esteem an enjoyment of game

dis influence can be positive an dis influence can be negative. Aal dependin on de minds an mons.

Not wantin to risk negativity by introducin guilds makin sense to mi. Stand to gain notin wi not aal ready gettin. Stand to risk much more. Till somone presentin study dat assures mi dat guilds gonna be makin tings intrinsically betta, sayin hell no.

Player influencin station an system? Ok wi got dis alreadi, in theory if not in functionin practice. Makin background sim clearer makin tings betta fah mi an mine - aal wi wantin.

Reading this I hear the voice of King Willie from Predator 2: https://youtu.be/3EBEV81gIBY

 

[Stigbob]

I tried to point out to them on that Reddit thread that they effectively sabotaged the poll (and by implication their goal) by doing this - guess what, I got downvoted

One man against the sock-puppet hoard.

I salute you sir, have rep.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

edit: heh, great minds ... ^^

I tried to point out to them on that Reddit thread that they effectively sabotaged the poll (and by implication their goal) by doing this - guess what, I got downvoted

Have some rep to compensate