But those players are making a conscious choice not to join the community. It's like people who don't vote in politics. Even though half didn't vote, the results are still valid.
The New Guilds and Player Owned Stations Discussion Thread.
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But those players are making a conscious choice not to join the community. It's like people who don't vote in politics. Even though half didn't vote, the results are still valid.
I don't like to be accused of stuff I didn't do. I'm odd like that.
As I understand it, those personal homes are for the owners eyes only. I don't know if they can make it so that players belonging to a certain group can see, and visit each other's bases to be able to .... drink tea, or perhaps make use of their facilities.
Could even become a sort of a little village where players are specialised in a certain aspect. Modules I imagine will cost an insane amount of money, so co-operation would be beneficial.
Psss, how can you be against stuff? That's just crazy talk!
And that's just fine. Massive cooperation like that is not only great, it promotes togetherness and group play! Say what you will about powerplay, but it did something the game definitely needed. Added points of interests for players and ways for them to meet up based on their principles/ideologies of the game. I honestly don't care if we never get to make our own Coriellis starports, but I do want goals somewhat similar to what you suggested that players can work towards that aren't controlled soley by the devs because it really gives players goals and longevity.
And see, just because you don't know if they can doesn't mean it shouldn't be suggested. I guarantee if the outcry was large enough they could atleast find a compromise.
Trade Unions. Guilds that are based on exploration and set up active missions to do this. So you might ask "Why not community events or some such" Believe it or not it really helps in this example situation. Player A wants to be notched into the stars like so many sought to do, but they don't want to be alone. In addition? They don't want to wait a long time in between these events/developer content. Guilds and the means to find them presented within the game help present this. Not only that, but it's awesome to meet a group of people you want to be around. I think a lot of people are assuming that these guilds will instantly turn into murder banks and nothing else. Which is kind of odd, because you've already got player made groups that are devoted to stopping slave trading and they roleplay quite hard. (which is awesome! It just needs to be encouraged!)
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So it's okay that the original vote was basically "this community" and then another community came in and one-sided it with claims that "it's what everybody thinks" when there are probably other communities that weren't led here who would have voted the other way?
Tish and pish - the poll is bunk!
True, but if the guild owns and runs the station, they will be the local faction and also control the local police. It would take outside influences to respond and then we would have the guilds complaining that FD is interfering in the running of their station.
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Yes I am looking at worst case scenario, because I believe that is exactly what will happen. Look at other MMO's, group mentality is rampant and unless you belong to the right Clan/Group/Guild/Club you are restricted in what you can do. Although I have never played Eve, I have read enough and heard enough from mates who played it, that unless you are in one of the major Guilds (or whatever they are called), the game is nearly unplayable except for small safe areas.
Yup, im pretty sure the cops would be concerned with the Crips doing drive by attacks in Fer-De-Lances and getting chased by Blood Asps in retribution.
So it's okay that the original vote was basically "this community" and then another community came in and one-sided it with claims that "it's what everybody thinks" when there are probably other communities that weren't led here who would have voted the other way?
Tish and pish - the poll is bunk!
Everyone can post about the poll. It's still open. The only place I know of is reddit and this forum.
It will give players who like to do such things the option to say that it is intended gameplay. Currently such players only claim that that system or station is their own, everybody knows that this isn't true. With guild stations - no matter how small - they will say that it's intended gameplay and that FD wanted guilds to be able to own a system.
Guilds will make it easier for players to group together to pick on weaker players. Guild stations will allow guilds to claim that that system is theirs and give them a reason to attack everybody else.
What else could somebody do with a guild and a space station? Emergent gameplay is just an euphemism for large group ganking small group - in my opinion and in a PvP game.
This already happens with the Reddit groups. This isn't something that is going to just be avoided. You can work to stop it in the game sure, but you can't put your hands over your eyes and ignore that it's happening. And I think you're just being silly when you say its a euphanism for large group ganking small group. You're blowing it out of proportion because from the sounds of it you've only experienced the bad side of this equation.
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Fine, I want a guild so I can gank all of you, repeatedly and without recourse, and laugh a lot about it. That's what I want. To explode all of you and your horse cart.
..and a station to hide in when I'm done.
There, I said it.
Almost out of popcorn already.....
..and a station to hide in when I'm done.
There, I said it.
Almost out of popcorn already.....
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Once again - don't call it guilds
that may suit the Patritician, WoW or GW, but not Elite.
I can imagine fleets, corporations, factions, syndicates, clubs, leagues or societies, orders, parties, allegiances or even powers. But please - no guilds.
I recommend to study some other games from other genres and backgrounds, where different systems are implemented. One of my favourite systems was "Asheron's Call" with a pyramid allegiance system.
We don't need to clone other systems, but more options for player2player interaction, collaboration and economy (even if it is a shadow-economy) are really missing.
that may suit the Patritician, WoW or GW, but not Elite.
I can imagine fleets, corporations, factions, syndicates, clubs, leagues or societies, orders, parties, allegiances or even powers. But please - no guilds.
I recommend to study some other games from other genres and backgrounds, where different systems are implemented. One of my favourite systems was "Asheron's Call" with a pyramid allegiance system.
We don't need to clone other systems, but more options for player2player interaction, collaboration and economy (even if it is a shadow-economy) are really missing.
Well, personally I would limit it to a LIMITED Outpost as a refuelling post.
And if they exist and OWN a station then they are a minor faction. Minor factions have reputation, minor factions can LOOSE reputation and loose ownership of stations.
So here's what I propose. Dont let ANYONE own anything.
Let them players post MISSIONS on a bulletin board with payment from their own stash.
Each mission delivered to a location chosen by the "quest giver" adds to their factions reputation. After enough missions they could indeed have a majority reputation over said station.
Now, this COULD extend to a system if they work their asses off but they dont OWN the system and every other player, NPC and other will do other jobs that continously oppose their influence.
So let people WORK for their factions "rent" of a system and station. Also, this ownership and griefing AND reputation work would only be possible in open play.
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Minor Factions, that's what we are.
Goonfleet Trade unition
TEST Science Division
Trollbridge Undertakers
Etc...
MINOR factions
Sounds like there has to be a guild-like mechanics in game if FD allows a group of people to build and access that asteroid base thingy. Otherwise how can anyone identify themselves that they are a part that that group? (serious question).
Also, i hope the cost to build is in billions.
And that's where we're back to it doesn't have to be that way.
This is also why I'm getting frustrated. Very few people are advocating EVE-style play. In fact we know that DB and Frontier explicitly don't want that, so it's never going to happen. It's not a valid point of debate.
Guild doesn't have to own the station (in fact they shouldn't, imo). They certainly shouldn't 'own' a system. Eve's guilds don't have to be the same as Elite's guilds. Conflating player ownership, Eve online and the arguments and suggestions being put forward in this thread are what's keeping it running (mostly) in circles.
See what I did there
It's a great point you make and it shows that there are many many players who are happy with the current social aspect of the game so why waste time and effort on it!
I'm glad we finally reached this conclusion to what has been a long thread, thanks everyone. You were all great and I was adequate!
\Sarcasm Off
Sorry about that but it is a good way of pointing out that the only way to know for sure that every active game account has had a chance to vote is to do it by email or as an in-game option otherwise we just go round and round in circles with everybody making claims about stuff that is more opinion than fact.
Great debate
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No surprise there - these guild threads always go that way
The problem is that group activity and station control are a natural pairing. I believe any constructive idea needs to address both as groups will inevitably want to own stations so it's best to address the matter at the start. The solution I'd suggest is to allow limited control as opposed to outright ownership. There is a perfect mechanism to enable this already in the game - faction support at stations.
The current groups mechanism could be expanded to accommodate player factions that operate in the same way as NPC minor factions and allow a group of players to coordinate their efforts towards ingame goals of their own choosing by sponsoring missions and other content. Virtual station control would happen through accumulation of faction support. Individual rewards of such station control could include subsidies and bonuses precisely like CGs deliver, and the mechanics could be structured so that non-faction players could participate in the same way as they do via NPC missions. The faction group bonuses could include the ability to sponsor or direct the construction of new stations at specified locations - but not actual ownership of said stations. The system authority could be preserved as an independent force not under player faction control.
Use the existing game mechanics and systems with slight expansions to enable in-game organizations that are in keeping with the "feel" of ED. Think of a player faction as being like a persistent, open-ended, multi-threaded CG that is managed by a group of players. It's activities would be open to any player in any mode although the player faction members would operate exclusively in open mode.
That's why i proposed the so-called "guild" should be the existing minor faction that players can pledge their allegiance to. Technically, the player is still an employee, spreading the minor faction influence; and if they commit crime, then the system authorities will still hunt them down like those minor faction NPC with wanted status getting hunted down by the system authority NPC.
I think "Group" is a single word that would fit nicely into ELite's lore and it's already used in Elite as in "Group Play". They could be subgroups of minor/major factions or as you say, minor factions of their own.
Goonfleet Trade unition Group
TEST Science Division Group (Edit: Ok, it's a redundant here, but still works somewhat)
...
Ingame tags with the "group" postfix would go well in the Elite universe IMO. As for those people who don't want to see or acknowledge the existence of such groups, even in oupen play: Add an ingame configuration to the shipscanner, determining whether it scans a CMDR's group as well.
Not even EvE players are advocating EvE style play, at least not many of them, couple weirdos, but most know it will not work in ED, too many design differences, and its a good thing. If you haven't played you don't know, and how would you? No worries. Mr. Braben already put that in check. People are worried about PvP because they don't like PvP. The beauty of Elite; No matter what; you don't have to play with anyone you don't want to, there is %66.666 of Elite you can have complete control over who you play with. That's pretty amazing.
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I've mentioned this before but I think the whole concept of guilds and player owned infrastructure is something wanted by a vocal number of players but which is highly off-putting to some players (generally those with more limited time). It splits the player base into those who can take part in the guild work, and those who cannot. Currently PowerPlay still allows all players to achieve something in PowerPlay if they want to, or ignore it completely. In every game I've played with guilds the whole concept of a guild requires significant time investment and some people can't guarantee that. Some content becomes gated behind a "guild-wall" and it also reduces the number of players who aren't involved in guild work (so the rest of the universe becomes to some extent more sterile as players are syphoned off on guild related missions/work etc.).
I think it's a fiction that you can implement guilds without affecting the gameplay for those that don't want to take part.
Personally I'd rather FD concentrated on making the missions and careers that are already there more compelling and more adventurous within the current framework than add a mechanic that is likely to alienate a lot of players.
I think it's a fiction that you can implement guilds without affecting the gameplay for those that don't want to take part.
Personally I'd rather FD concentrated on making the missions and careers that are already there more compelling and more adventurous within the current framework than add a mechanic that is likely to alienate a lot of players.
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