I would like to find just one or two Elite NPC's in a RES. At the moment "My Lady" there doesn't seem to be any
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Sarah, it may be time to tone it down a bit.
- Thread starter CMDR Hagglebeard
- Start date
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Agreed... so I'll be bringing it... big time... next combat AI update.
I assume (dangerous, I know) that AI skill is a continuous function rather than one spot per rank? If so, does the game take advantage of the possibility that not all NPCs at a particular rank are equally skilled? If an amount of variability of skill at a particular rank is possible then there could be *really* Elite NPCs as well as the "just been promoted" Elite NPCs, etc....
Oh yeah, something is working there. I was taking on an Asp and shot out one of its drives and it slowed down and had trouble flying. Allowed me to get a few hatch breakers off in relative peace.
Its a tactic that works well with bigger ships. T6 or smaller though i didn't have luck with this tactic, because usually by the time you have taken out the drive, the hull is also at 0%. Not your area though, perhaps i should report it as a bug or something, or maybe my aim is bad and i'm doing too much accidental hull damage.
Not sure what that 'high-end AI' will be but last night I got something that clearly felt 1 or 2 numbers too big for me: A 'deadly' AI in a clipper, a killer machine. Very soon it was very clear that there's only one option left: RUN! At this time I had 500 k worth of exploration data collected, add an insurance rate of currently 3 Mio. for my ship (Python, mainly fitted for exploration) and you can imagine I had some thrill there. In the end I was glad to escape in one piece.
If the appearance of certain AI ships is actually triggered by the player's skill I'll rather try to not getting better from now on...
I'm still unbeaten both by players and AI since release and always in open, so I hardly can complain. Just hope Sarah Jane doesn't make it a personal sport to change that.
Too late, sir. You said it out loud.
I do hope so or won't all those of the same rank just start to feel the same?
Sarah?
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What about not slowing down but malfunctioning and the ship start spinning in all different directions like players experience? A.I don't seem to experience the same progressive set backs when modules get damaged as players do. Like as my power plant malfunctions, FSD malfunctions, thruster malfunctions. For them it seems it is all or nothing.
Would it be possible to add a training mission which is called: "Do you feel lucky CMDR?" where Sarah can go bananapeanutbuttersandwich crazy and put you against the best AI possible?
Maybe a leaderboard.
Fastest kill (or is that too optimistic and should it be "longest time before being killed/running off/wetting pants/crying in corner"?)
Maybe a leaderboard.
Fastest kill (or is that too optimistic and should it be "longest time before being killed/running off/wetting pants/crying in corner"?)
Agreed... so I'll be bringing it... big time... next combat AI update.
Once again, though - relating directly to combat rank progression - if you modify one, you need to modify the other, or at least explain what choices are being made on that front. It's somewhat the point of the game at the moment, to become "Elite", so if you're making the harder enemies much harder, are you increasing the value given to one's combat rank?
And to piggy back that...when is killing an Elite Anaconda going to bring a bigger bond that killing a Competent Anaconda in CZ's? This game mechanic already exist in assassination missions. Why do higher ranked ships in CZ's not bring in bigger bonds than lower ranked ships?
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I haven't found the recent changes to be too much, despite my concerns prior to the patch. However, it seems like people have forgotten that for newer players who don't yet have millions of credits, they need to be able to kill hundreds of enemy NPCs without frequent deaths in order to afford ship upgrades.
This means that if you go for a model where current bounty/mission rewards remain as they are, but the more difficult NPC AI is made to be a coin toss over who will win the battle, you've increased the grind for those working their way up.
The grind to earn money, aside from Merits, is one of the weakest parts of the game under the current system. Though I support the concept that NPCs at high ranking should be difficult, it needs to be done with consideration for the time required to upgrade from one ship to the next.
Having Elite mean that you're likely to die in combat is exciting for those with Anacondas and highly rated modules, but may not be the same for those trying to work through the interminable slog to get those more powerful ships.
This means that if you go for a model where current bounty/mission rewards remain as they are, but the more difficult NPC AI is made to be a coin toss over who will win the battle, you've increased the grind for those working their way up.
The grind to earn money, aside from Merits, is one of the weakest parts of the game under the current system. Though I support the concept that NPCs at high ranking should be difficult, it needs to be done with consideration for the time required to upgrade from one ship to the next.
Having Elite mean that you're likely to die in combat is exciting for those with Anacondas and highly rated modules, but may not be the same for those trying to work through the interminable slog to get those more powerful ships.
She said she is going to tone down the lower ranks. What players are going to have to get used to is picking fights they can win. No longer will a player in an Eagle or Viper be able to take out Pythons and Anacondas. They will have to stick to the combat class they are currently at. I feel this is how it always should have been. I was able to take out an Elite Anaconda for the first time in a Cobra (others that are better than be did it with far less) and that just doesn't make sense. Taking out the big game is something that should be worked towards..not something given to them. Elite, Dangerous, Master....Those ranks need to mean something.
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How exactly IS mission bounty calculated?
My brainstorming?
1- Ship Type Base Cost / 100
2- Pilot Elite Rank [Elite Rank 1-9]
3- Armament [E-A Modules= 1-5]
1: Anaconda = 150 Mil / 100 = 150K
2: Elite pilot = 150K X 1,9 = 285K
3: B (4) Modules = 285 * 4 = 1140K final bounty
It would be somewhat nice to be able to guesstimate the possible outfitting or tank a target might have. Or if they have friends with them.
My brainstorming?
1- Ship Type Base Cost / 100
2- Pilot Elite Rank [Elite Rank 1-9]
3- Armament [E-A Modules= 1-5]
1: Anaconda = 150 Mil / 100 = 150K
2: Elite pilot = 150K X 1,9 = 285K
3: B (4) Modules = 285 * 4 = 1140K final bounty
It would be somewhat nice to be able to guesstimate the possible outfitting or tank a target might have. Or if they have friends with them.
It's not a matter of timing down the lower ranks. It's a matter of an overall decrease of credits per hour, as lower ranks also have lower bounty rewards, meaning that if you effectively eliminate targets with 50,000 CR+ bounties as viable targets for those working their way up, you've also decreased earning potential in a game where upgrades are already very slow to earn.
One of the major complaints currently is boredom. By increasing the numbers of NPCs that must be "farmed" in order to move into the next ship upgrade, you're also increasing that boredom.
This doesn't mean AI upgrades shouldn't happen. I would just suggest that bounty reward levels be increased to match the new difficulty curve. If an Elite Anaconda is now a 50/50 toss up for a player in a similar ship, the reward should also be increased to be closer to the insurance rebuy of the ship.
Edit: I would add that my personal opinion is that Cobras if properly equipped should pose a threat to Anacondas. Ideally, an Anaconda attacked by a good Cobra pilot who brought along missile racks or especially torpedoes should be in a great deal of difficulty of his shields are brought down. Additionally, note that larger ships are receiving a survivability upgrade in 1.4 as power plants will no longer result in immediate destruction.
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But the reason people got bored with NPC farming was that they provided no challenge and are just meat for the grinder. With improved AI, they will provide a challenge, so fighting them should be more entertaining.
Does it really matter that much how much credits you earn and how fast you go through the ranks when you're having fun?
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Agreed, I would think that attempting to move away from 'the grind' at any given opportunity is a better goal than making it easier. Better AI and more engaging combat is a step in the right direction, balancing the game around 'how easily I can get a bigger ship' is not.
I may have a found a hole in elite AI ability.
I just unwisely took on an elite clipper in my diamondback scout. As it kept me permanently in it's sights I used maneuvering thrusters to try to evade its weapon arc (I failed and took a pounding), when I stopped maneuvering for a few seconds to fiddle with shield cell banks in a desperate attempt to keep my shields up I noticed it's fire was so accurate that the lasers were missing either side of my piddly little ship (must have been fixed weapons, reminded me of the x-wing in pre laser convergence lucas arts flight sims). I rapidly took it to pieces by only maneuvering up or down and keeping my cockpit level with his as his firepower wanged past on both sides, at point blank range.
Elite NPC's with a wide weapon spread should either fit some gimbals or aim off to effectively target smaller ships. I may regret suggesting this if SJA is still reading.
I just unwisely took on an elite clipper in my diamondback scout. As it kept me permanently in it's sights I used maneuvering thrusters to try to evade its weapon arc (I failed and took a pounding), when I stopped maneuvering for a few seconds to fiddle with shield cell banks in a desperate attempt to keep my shields up I noticed it's fire was so accurate that the lasers were missing either side of my piddly little ship (must have been fixed weapons, reminded me of the x-wing in pre laser convergence lucas arts flight sims). I rapidly took it to pieces by only maneuvering up or down and keeping my cockpit level with his as his firepower wanged past on both sides, at point blank range.
Elite NPC's with a wide weapon spread should either fit some gimbals or aim off to effectively target smaller ships. I may regret suggesting this if SJA is still reading.
The issue there is how much fun it really is to be involved in a tense, 20 minute combat with a highly ranked ship, barely winning, only to be rewarded with 75,000 Credits for doing so, and realizing how many more times you need to do that to upgrade from your current ship to the next.
This can partially be solved simply by adding more ships to the game, giving more even progression rates, but it should also be addressed by making the bounty rewards for more difficult combat higher.
There is little reason to risk your insurance payout in combat when the risk/reward is so skewed.
What ends up happening is that it pushes people to decrease that risk; solo trading, for instance.
Again, I'm in favor of an increase in the risk for higher ranks, I just think the reward side needs to be balanced to give a reason to engage those ships. Part of the fun is to take on an enemy that is extremely difficult, and get a large reward for doing so.
The ai targets only you if you're in range. It will also follow you to the ends of the universe if you damaged it. This does not matter that other enemies are beating in to thier canopy, only the player matters.
The pythons have infinite frag ammo, which goes to show that frag sucks and ftroop cannot into balance since it has to cheat( gee I wonder what else is cheating?).
In hi intnesity zones, after you reset it till it spawns a decent mix of higher payout bounties there's a ton of cops. In high intensity zones. Let that sink in about how that is exactly the opposite of how brabo "let the unpaid intern code it" visions statement about Hi intensity zones.
And yet there's ftroop fanboys.
The pythons have infinite frag ammo, which goes to show that frag sucks and ftroop cannot into balance since it has to cheat( gee I wonder what else is cheating?).
In hi intnesity zones, after you reset it till it spawns a decent mix of higher payout bounties there's a ton of cops. In high intensity zones. Let that sink in about how that is exactly the opposite of how brabo "let the unpaid intern code it" visions statement about Hi intensity zones.
And yet there's ftroop fanboys.
I see this thread on first page of the Discussion.
I have already seen and participated in several threads about whether to tone up or down the AI.
I just wanted to say: Please, do not, I repeat, do not tone down the AI! A game where you don't happen to lose is no fun! Please improve the AI as much as you can...I want to fear the AI as much as close as I fear real players!
EDIT: As for the OP, some may say that you should learn and improve your combat skills...I'd say that you should also learn how to escape a fight... There are plenty of options to escape a fight, even against skillful players...what works in PvP should work even better in PvE.
I have already seen and participated in several threads about whether to tone up or down the AI.
I just wanted to say: Please, do not, I repeat, do not tone down the AI! A game where you don't happen to lose is no fun! Please improve the AI as much as you can...I want to fear the AI as much as close as I fear real players!
EDIT: As for the OP, some may say that you should learn and improve your combat skills...I'd say that you should also learn how to escape a fight... There are plenty of options to escape a fight, even against skillful players...what works in PvP should work even better in PvE.
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