The New Guilds and Player Owned Stations Discussion Thread.

[Asp Explorer]

Where do I sign up , Oh hang on a minute I better check the rules first, well just the one, are we allowed to drink what we want? If I am limited to a guild preferred drink I need to check you are not the "Babycham Boys" or the "Gin Guzzlers" in disguise first .

ETA no Cider for me either, got very, very, drunk on it at 16 and never drank it again.

Drunks of Sol have no rules and no requirements - drink what you like to excess* and enjoy Elite

Only for playing Elite though - no driving or operating real machinery or trying to chat up the cute girl in the supermarket

 

[Hootmon]

lol, yes?

Just checking to see if you are a witch.

If you float, you are made of wood, and wood burns!

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Just checking to see if you are a witch.

If you float, you are made of wood, and wood burns!

Who are you, who are so wise in the ways of science?

 

[Yaffle]

Hello again

Time to head back to the topic now.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Hello again

Time to head back to the topic now.

Who are you, who are so wise in the ways of forum moderation?

*runs for cover*

 

[Darkphoenix]

Who are you, who are so wise in the ways of forum moderation?

*runs for cover*

LOL I'd give rep if I could......Monty Python never gets old

 

[Dave1235]

Hello again

Time to head back to the topic now.

Hiya, Ok <sighs> but just for a little while

I have a vague recollection from the Beta days, I think it was related to market prices and why you couldn't see them from another system.

IIRC the answer was in ED the comms could not travel between systems quick enough, the distances too vast.

Do you think they might not give global type chat for the same reason? and does anyone else remember more than I recall about the discussion?

 

[Cmdr Corran Antilles]

right... so your argument is if you do not like it go to solo then......

IF such content was introduced, and even more people dropped to solo, how long before the same guildies such as yourself was then demanding removal of solo even more than now? (complete with people coming from all over to add to a poll).

I bought a game where the head guy said in open forced PvP would be rare and that game mechanics would dissuade PvP & where open would be a largely co-operative experience... this is what was actually happening until around some time in feb.. then it all went to crud..

i dont seem to recall ever calling for the removal of solo olay....how many strawmen are you going to try trotting out?

- - - Updated - - -

Of course it's simple. It's Facebook Gangs in Space to beat up other Facebook Gangs in Space - that's absolutely all guilds amount to in games, and it's the only reason that peeps want to see them here - to show everyone who's the baddest Faceboom Gang in Space

still trotting out this?? even though it does not really happen in most places with guilds. Doesn't happen really in WoW or SWTOR or pretty much everyplaces I have been in a guild.

 

[Cmdr Corran Antilles]

Declaring wholecloth that a forum is hostile to an opinion is a little bit like saying it's wrong for people to have opinions on a game they play and have paid for.


Player-owned stations can *ONLY* work under one very important condition: They must not be able to impose controls, permits, taxes or influence other players in any other way. Period. The unified background sim makes such impositions and declarations by players entirely unworkable across the three game modes. I suspect that once you remove all ability for players/groups to affect other players through their claim and ownership of stations a large proportion of the player base clamouring for the feature will declare the feature 'pointless' and walk away.


Besides everything else - I cannot, never ever, play a game where the possibility exists for "mur|)3r-L33tz kr3w kek" to become a station's authorized name, in-game. Just... Just, oh gods, no. Flat out no.

Basically I can sum up those who are against guilds in a few words...

We have decided that we should only be able to play as single pilots. We should not be able to have easy communications with other players because that is a bad way to play. How dare you want to play with other people in a multiplayer game. Never mind that today we have the ability to gather in groups of like minded individuals. Some how this is not supposed to happen any more a thousand years into the future.

How bout instead of stamping your feet and saying no you can't have easy communication with other players in your group you start helping us come up with ways to allow it with out the things you fear happening happening. Cause stamping your feat and saying no I don't want it cause people might group together and pvp in a game that has pvp in it is silly. Even though that happens now.

- - - Updated - - -

Guilds are all about control, control of players, resources, territory, and ultimately the game itself. Guild chat channels can be used to facilitate everything else (with external tools already available).

FD will either keep guilds strictly under control (annoying a a lot of people) or the game is going to become "EVE cockpit view" (annoying a different lot of people).

A separate guild mode as a compromise will never satisfy a guilds wish to exert control, they'll need victims to get their power fix. I'll bet if we got separate mode's we'd get guild organized wings trying to throw their weight around in open.

How many times are you going to trot out that strawman. I have never had a guild try and control me. ever.

 

[Cmdr Corran Antilles]

I can already have chat and voice coms with other players in game now with massive distances. Why should guild chat be a problem? They already broke that

 

[DirkLarien]

How exactly player owned station can make the game deeper?
To have something to fight for ?
You can fight for whatever.
With PP even for ideas.

Guilds? i don't really mind nor care.

But to have a station just with player name slapped on the side just don't make the game any deeper.

I agree game needs lot more mechanics, but damn guys you are spiting nonsense out of boredom.

 

[Jericho]

Anti-Guilders have less than 35%. Seems the coin has flipped from the previous poll from 2 years ago, eh?.... How long can 65% be ignored?

 

[Cody]

What... a bogus poll in a daft thread? Yeah, right!

 

[Wicz]

This thread again?

Well I was against guilds, but now I really don't care what happens because I'm not playing. It is sad to see where the game appears to be heading though.

 

[Soliluna]

Guilds are all about control, control of players, resources, territory, and ultimately the game itself. Guild chat channels can be used to facilitate everything else (with external tools already available).

FD will either keep guilds strictly under control (annoying a a lot of people) or the game is going to become "EVE cockpit view" (annoying a different lot of people).

A separate guild mode as a compromise will never satisfy a guilds wish to exert control, they'll need victims to get their power fix. I'll bet if we got separate mode's we'd get guild organized wings trying to throw their weight around in open.

I completely disagree that guilds are about control, my local friends and I have been gaming for about 12 years now and have been in guilds/groups/clans for all the games we have played. We never had a leader, our decisions were always made by vote and we've never wanted to 'exert control' or 'get victims' for a 'power fix'. The guild aspect was a tool of identification, in many games guilds means different colour on the minimap. It meant your location being broadcast to the guild so you could be found, it meant a chat channel just for us to talk in; which was particularly important if you had more people in the guild than would fit in a party. In some games it meant a joint bank/storage area where we could share and expand. It also meant acknowledging that people would know us for our guild tag more often than simply ourselves and therefore our interactions required finesse and dedication so that we were recognised as respectful/decent players.

I think you are wholly and fundamentally incorrect that guilds about control.

What you describe is simply human nature, I could say that your attempt to prevent guilds from being part of the game is an exercise in control. Some people need to do it, others don't. Which is why some guilds do what you describe, while others (and in my experience, the majority) do not.

(My spiele: I'm not advocating guilds in game, only better communication and social options for finding like minded players and discussing the game within the game.)

 

[medwyn]

Yes, the against-arguments are still based on a mental concept claimed to have happened already.
And these conceptions are hard to let go because they are comforting - they don't require open mind and the "discomfort" of the unknown.

Basically it's a fear-based emotion. The more one revives this sort of chemical condition of the body, the thoughts follow - repetition (like we see these "arguments" here in the forums) embeds the concept and drives the thought toward the very same pattern. And it becomes an emotional addiction.

The bad news is that creation as a principle is born in that specific mental state where one can make himself independent of these chemically conditioned emotions. As long as they are running it's pointless to expect any change: the emotions drive the thoughts which recreate the same emotions which then trigger the same thought - and the cycle is there, an unconscious, automatic reaction. No added value in that really but it's there.
Breaking this chemical cycle which spins around the same emotions is possible, however for that one needs to willingly take the discomfort of the unknown. Open mind means risk as the "safety" of the well-known emotional cycles are gone when one is in the creative state. Excitement is the result: it's not about safety but being comfortable in the unknown and enjoy it.

It's all comes down to EVE when the word guild is mentioned. Then the witch hunt begins. Not because there are no other ways to talk about guilds than EVE has it (like in Lineage 2, Aion, SWTOR, and so on) but because these other examples are not feeding the automatic emotional cycle. No matter how one brings up arguments not at all related to EVE, the next denial reply is there that "I don't want you to affect my game like in EVE".

So I hope FD is conscious enough about these issues and can filter out the reflexive but one-dimensional posts from those which is venturing to the unknown to get creative and pursue joy.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

i dont seem to recall ever calling for the removal of solo olay....how many strawmen are you going to try trotting out?
.

OK so if my brush was a little too wide and i accidentally splattered you with it i can only appologise. Maybe you are perfectly happy with the 3 modes and swapping at will however IF you are suggesting that none of the other pro-guild players here have nver complained about it then I an only say you are mistaken.

and I truly believe that others who have made a new account and voted on here but not actually entered in discource would ALSO vote in the next reddit poll to can the group swapping once the guilds were established once open was even more of a graveyard (which I believe it would become even more so) (graveyard not being my word but one used from an open player complaining that not enough players play in open any more).

of course there is no way to prove it, but I have betted a lot of money on worse odds than that at the casino and won!.

PS @ Medwyn FEAR ? come on now, FEAR has naff all to do with it, its a videogame.... however entertainment has everything to do with it, and I have never found any game with heavy guild content to be entertaining.

and for me it is not all about Eve either.

But let us get that one out of the way....Eve has guilds - i do not like it
WOW has guilds - i do not like it
DOTA has guilds... - I do not like it
guild wars has guilds..... (Are you seeing a pattern yet?)

NOTE I respect them all, they just are not for me, so when DB said he felt guilds were a bad fit for ED I was more than happy to support it.

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

Yes, the against-arguments are still based on a mental concept claimed to have happened already.
And these conceptions are hard to let go because they are comforting - they don't require open mind and the "discomfort" of the unknown.

Basically it's a fear-based emotion. The more one revives this sort of chemical condition of the body, the thoughts follow - repetition (like we see these "arguments" here in the forums) embeds the concept and drives the thought toward the very same pattern. And it becomes an emotional addiction.

The bad news is that creation as a principle is born in that specific mental state where one can make himself independent of these chemically conditioned emotions. As long as they are running it's pointless to expect any change: the emotions drive the thoughts which recreate the same emotions which then trigger the same thought - and the cycle is there, an unconscious, automatic reaction. No added value in that really but it's there.
Breaking this chemical cycle which spins around the same emotions is possible, however for that one needs to willingly take the discomfort of the unknown. Open mind means risk as the "safety" of the well-known emotional cycles are gone when one is in the creative state. Excitement is the result: it's not about safety but being comfortable in the unknown and enjoy it.

It's all comes down to EVE when the word guild is mentioned. Then the witch hunt begins. Not because there are no other ways to talk about guilds than EVE has it (like in Lineage 2, Aion, SWTOR, and so on) but because these other examples are not feeding the automatic emotional cycle. No matter how one brings up arguments not at all related to EVE, the next denial reply is there that "I don't want you to affect my game like in EVE".

So I hope FD is conscious enough about these issues and can filter out the reflexive but one-dimensional posts from those which is venturing to the unknown to get creative and pursue joy.

"Blah blah blah you're all scaredeycats"

Nope. It's as simple as this : This is Elite. It's not yer typical game.

End of.

 

[Soliluna]

Yes, the against-arguments are still based on a mental concept claimed to have happened already.
And these conceptions are hard to let go because they are comforting - they don't require open mind and the "discomfort" of the unknown.

Basically it's a fear-based emotion. The more one revives this sort of chemical condition of the body, the thoughts follow - repetition (like we see these "arguments" here in the forums) embeds the concept and drives the thought toward the very same pattern. And it becomes an emotional addiction.

The bad news is that creation as a principle is born in that specific mental state where one can make himself independent of these chemically conditioned emotions. As long as they are running it's pointless to expect any change: the emotions drive the thoughts which recreate the same emotions which then trigger the same thought - and the cycle is there, an unconscious, automatic reaction. No added value in that really but it's there.
Breaking this chemical cycle which spins around the same emotions is possible, however for that one needs to willingly take the discomfort of the unknown. Open mind means risk as the "safety" of the well-known emotional cycles are gone when one is in the creative state. Excitement is the result: it's not about safety but being comfortable in the unknown and enjoy it.

It's all comes down to EVE when the word guild is mentioned. Then the witch hunt begins. Not because there are no other ways to talk about guilds than EVE has it (like in Lineage 2, Aion, SWTOR, and so on) but because these other examples are not feeding the automatic emotional cycle. No matter how one brings up arguments not at all related to EVE, the next denial reply is there that "I don't want you to affect my game like in EVE".

So I hope FD is conscious enough about these issues and can filter out the reflexive but one-dimensional posts from those which is venturing to the unknown to get creative and pursue joy.

That's a lot of hippie nonsense.... And I agree.

Some of the posts here show such wildly disproportionate mistrust and paranoia that I worry first interactions have soured and misrepresented what guilds/groups/whatever function as within a game.

There will be good ones, bad ones and everything in between.... the same as people. The tools provided by FD will dictate what effect they have on players.

- - - Updated - - -

"Blah blah blah you're all scaredeycats"

Nope. It's as simple as this : This is Elite. It's not yer typical game.

End of.

I would say it is your typical game, same interactions as any other game, same behavioural reward mechanisms....

The community - now that is what is not typical

 

[jabokai]

It's all comes down to EVE when the word guild is mentioned. Then the witch hunt begins. Not because there are no other ways to talk about guilds than EVE has it (like in Lineage 2, Aion, SWTOR, and so on) but because these other examples are not feeding the automatic emotional cycle. No matter how one brings up arguments not at all related to EVE, the next denial reply is there that "I don't want you to affect my game like in EVE".

Lots of great waffle there but, never played Eve long enough to encounter guilds (or any other player come to that), gave up within an hour of the trial. Played WoW (and other guild centric MMOs) and loved the guild aspect there, it really worked well, partly because there were PvE and PvP servers which meant everyone was catered for. But anyway, apologies for not fitting your "attempting to sound all scientific and authoratiative" profile but ED isn't those other games with guilds and doesn't NEED to be. It is possible to tread new paths and try new things - don't let change scare you so much.