You must empty your cargo hold first...

[Quineloe]

you buy 20 type 9's and fill them up, then go to another station and sell all the cargo at a high price, ad infinitum.

Cool, except you lose 7 million credits on each Type 9 you purchase, and you only have 1 cargo hold to make up for that profit. So multiple Type 9s stored is even more out of the question than a single Type 9 stored.

So coming around to our Narcotics example from earlier: Even buying Type 9s full of 100 credits Narcotics and then selling them + their 10k narcotics later would net you a loss.

 

[jacozilla]

Cool, except you lose 7 million credits on each Type 9 you purchase, and you only have 1 cargo hold to make up for that profit. So multiple Type 9s stored is even more out of the question than a single Type 9 stored.

So coming around to our Narcotics example from earlier: Even buying Type 9s full of 100 credits Narcotics and then selling them + their 10k narcotics later would net you a loss.

Add opportunity cost. Business 101- your net cost is gross cost + opportunity cost

A shielded type 9 (safest) is 496 tons cargo. Every trip you (the original reply person - not the quote above) take to buy a type 9 and move it is 496 tons of transportation logistics lost - e.g. the capacity to move and sell 496 tons of Stuff (TM).

The avg profit even a not-so-good trader is going to make is at least 1.5k CR/ton profit. Translation = 744k CR opportunity cost profit per Type 9 retrieved and moved 1 avg distance segment.

Your 20 type 9 - even if purchase cost was free - just cost you 14.88M credits in transportation logistics opportunity cost to go get them, and another 14.88M to move them to whatever storage location - all assume 1 avg trade route segment distance. If it is longer, we'd multiply this by whatever X factor the distance is greater than avg trade route A-B

Whatever profit you would make in whatever scheme that involves storing 20 Type 9 cargo and then sell it, would have to subtract at minimum this ~30M credit you would have made just by using ONE type 9 doing usual A-B route in the time you used to buy, ferry, and store all those 20 type 9 ships.

If you can't purchase the item you want to store at the same place you buy the type 9, then that is another route segment of lost opportunity cost time. Let's say for argument's sake that whatever you want to store can be purchased a mere 1 avg-trade segment distance from where ever you bought the type 9s. That would add another 14.88M of lost transportation logistics.

So more accurately, you're looking at ~45M credit opportunity cost loss before you've even started the clock on storing and then waiting to sell for whatever profit when the time is right.

9920 tons of stored goods would have to be sold at a whopping 4536 CR/ton profit just to break even with this lost opportunity cost.

And if the background sim were ever fixed to allow this kind of market arbitrage to be taken advantage of - the math for losing all that transportation logistics would also go up, because under a real market fluctuation economy that allowed this kind of stored arbitrage, it would be fair to argue that normal traders moving good routes A to B, would make far more than the sun-standard 1500 CR/ton profit I used in these example calculations.

 

[goemon]

Elite: Dangerously Illogical


Nothing to blaze, you're only meant to waste as much time as possible *points at SC acceleration/deceleration*.
So forcing you to get rid of all the metals first, then find your Vulture, then go bounty hunting (if you're still in the mood for that now) etc is the logical choice for that ^^


Better annoy players by blocking a potential feature than allowing it to be used for exploiting, even if no one knows how the hell that would need to be done in the first place to be worth it.


Rares, the bane of the cargo storing issue.
Oh if only there'd be a way to prevent it, like making the totally weird supply block take into account not only your cargo bay but your stored amounts too.
Too bad that this isn't an MMO using a database which knows EVERYTHING that could be just used to look if a player has rares of a kind stored somewhere and then simply deny supply based on that.

Such a pity.

as said, there was the question of exploits through cargo storing or swapping. i don't think they are worth not implementing this feature. but if it comes to flipping a system/bgs a number of stored t6/t9 with palladium would make most flipping attempts fruitless. would be some kind of "trade fortification", which you can prepare in advance and get into action even if you don't have time to play.... but hey, i would love something like that

 

[Robert Maynard]

If ships were to be allowed to be stored with cargo and if ships were able to be "summoned" to the player's current location in some way then a form of low risk trading would have been created - the player heads out into the black with a well defended ship and scouts out where best to sell the cargo then, once the sale location is determined, "summons" the loaded trading ship (presumably with no chance of loss) - waits for ship to arrive - sells cargo - profits - with significantly less risk of losing the cargo than if they had had to make the trip themselves in the trading ship.

I know that this relies on being able to have one of one's stored ships transferred to one's current location, however I would expect that ship transportation is reasonably likely.

 

[LeetNoob]

If ships were to be allowed to be stored with cargo and if ships were able to be "summoned" to the player's current location in some way then a form of low risk trading would have been created - the player heads out into the black with a well defended ship and scouts out where best to sell the cargo then, once the sale location is determined, "summons" the loaded trading ship (presumably with no chance of loss) - waits for ship to arrive - sells cargo - profits - with significantly less risk of losing the cargo than if they had had to make the trip themselves in the trading ship.

I know that this relies on being able to have one of one's stored ships transferred to one's current location, however I would expect that ship transportation is reasonably likely.

More excuses, this isn't even implemented. Just make is so you can only 'summon' a ship with nothing in the cargo hold.

- - - Updated - - -

Cool, except you lose 7 million credits on each Type 9 you purchase, and you only have 1 cargo hold to make up for that profit. So multiple Type 9s stored is even more out of the question than a single Type 9 stored.

So coming around to our Narcotics example from earlier: Even buying Type 9s full of 100 credits Narcotics and then selling them + their 10k narcotics later would net you a loss.

Also, you can't purchase more than one T-9 anyway, it tells you 'you already have this ship'. At least not at the same station.

 

[Quineloe]

Also, you can't purchase more than one T-9 anyway, it tells you 'you already have this ship'. At least not at the same station.

No, you just can't buy a ship from the ship you already own. I don't understand why.

- - - Updated - - -

If ships were to be allowed to be stored with cargo and if ships were able to be "summoned" to the player's current location i

Fancy a wager that this will never happen?

More likely is the player is transported to the ship, certainly not the other way around.

 

[LeetNoob]

No, you just can't buy a ship from the ship you already own. I don't understand why.

Ah I stand corrected. I came across this trying to replace my Python with a discounted Python. Was back in a Sidewiner for about 30 seconds.

 

[TruffleSnout]

(\(\;;/)/)

I find your ascii spider quite creepy. Have some rep for that.

 

[Maximillian Forrest]

...before changing ship.

Why?

If the cargo is stored internally (and we can't attach external cargo modules because they don't exist) then what is the problem?

<sigh>

Yes, you should empty your cargo….If you were selling a car the new owner would expect you to have removed all your belongings first.

 

[andy_3_913]

Yes, you should empty your cargo….If you were selling a car the new owner would expect you to have removed all your belongings first.

Swapping.
There's a difference.

My 2nd post was a bit more explanatory.

 

[LeetNoob]

Yes, you should empty your cargo….If you were selling a car the new owner would expect you to have removed all your belongings first.

If you were parking your car you would not.
Who's asking for you to keep cargo in a ship you're selling. That doesn't make sense. If you did it accidently maybe you'd have to fly around the locality with a cargo scanner looking for your stuff.

 

[tarragon]

The need to empty a ship before storing it seems to be in place to stop players stockpiling commodities and undertaking long term speculation on prices - a player could have a number of cargo-maxed Type-9s squirrelled away full of various commodities just waiting for the price to rise or a particular mission to be offered.

Yeah, we wouldn't want players having fun speculating on prices and generally enjoying deep economical model behind the game.. Oh wait...

 

[Brujah]

(snip)

(\(\;;/)/)

Is that a spider?

Edit: Haha, I only saw your screen name after replying. I assume it IS a spider. Pretty awesome one though.

 

[Maximillian Forrest]

Swapping.
There's a difference.

My 2nd post was a bit more explanatory.

Storing your ship is a different matter. I got caught out with this too, so I know it can be annoying. Sometimes you just need to bite the bullet and sell the goods at the current station for less than you’d probably like. Would be better if they allowed all cargo to be stored in the ship, just like they do with the fuel in the tank(s)

 

[CMDR Weatherwax]

I could exploit that mechanism, I suppose through mining. Go out in ship and collect a load of painite, platinum etc and then instead of having to sell on commodity market plus the few missions I had taken I could just do other stuff and wait till I saw mining missions and then change ships and cash in for high profit (and it would be very high with the right load).

The current mechanism at least means I either have to sell or wait for BB to refresh. I wouldn't think this is a particularly troublesome exploit but it's the only one I can imagine you could use if cargo storage came in.

 

[jacozilla]

I could exploit that mechanism, I suppose through mining. Go out in ship and collect a load of painite, platinum etc and then instead of having to sell on commodity market plus the few missions I had taken I could just do other stuff and wait till I saw mining missions and then change ships and cash in for high profit (and it would be very high with the right load).

The current mechanism at least means I either have to sell or wait for BB to refresh. I wouldn't think this is a particularly troublesome exploit but it's the only one I can imagine you could use if cargo storage came in.

I wouldn't call it an exploit. If you take the time to mine all that palladium, osmium, and platinum - any resale of it via any means, regular commodity sale or mission use - is well earned.

 

[AndyJ]

I could exploit that mechanism, I suppose through mining. Go out in ship and collect a load of painite, platinum etc and then instead of having to sell on commodity market plus the few missions I had taken I could just do other stuff and wait till I saw mining missions and then change ships and cash in for high profit (and it would be very high with the right load).

The current mechanism at least means I either have to sell or wait for BB to refresh. I wouldn't think this is a particularly troublesome exploit but it's the only one I can imagine you could use if cargo storage came in.

I wouldn't call it an exploit either, as it's no different to flying to a station that often asks for supply of minerals or silver with some in your cargo hold, and waiting for the missions to appear. The missions only pop-up every so often and you have to be there to actually accept and sell them - so getting rid of even a quite small amount can take ages! If you were able to park your ship up and head off in another to do something else, then you won't be about to accept the missions anyway so don't gain any benefit - other than 'have more fun' in between...

I do tend to fulfil any extra Painite missions that I can find, especially if I've spent 3 or 4 hours mining it - and perhaps Platinum if I've extra. If there aren't any appearing then I'll just leave them in cargo and head back out again if I want to play. Osmium is usually plentiful though, and seems to spawn fewer missions, so there's not much point hanging on to that - it's better just to dump it on the market if there are no missions and just go mine some more as & when you need it.
For the amount of time it takes mining, simple trading is far more profitable anyway. You aren't going to 'get rich quick' storing a python with half-a-dozen tonnes of Painite left in its cargo!

 

[jacozilla]

I wouldn't call it an exploit either, as it's no different to flying to a station that often asks for supply of minerals or silver with some in your cargo hold, and waiting for the missions to appear. The missions only pop-up every so often and you have to be there to actually accept and sell them - so getting rid of even a quite small amount can take ages! If you were able to park your ship up and head off in another to do something else, then you won't be about to accept the missions anyway so don't gain any benefit - other than 'have more fun' in between...

I do tend to fulfil any extra Painite missions that I can find, especially if I've spent 3 or 4 hours mining it - and perhaps Platinum if I've extra. If there aren't any appearing then I'll just leave them in cargo and head back out again if I want to play. Osmium is usually plentiful though, and seems to spawn fewer missions, so there's not much point hanging on to that - it's better just to dump it on the market if there are no missions and just go mine some more as & when you need it.
For the amount of time it takes mining, simple trading is far more profitable anyway. You aren't going to 'get rich quick' storing a python with half-a-dozen tonnes of Painite left in its cargo!

It's also a purely theoretical exploit. As anyone that has done reasonable amount of mining knows - it's not like we ever have tons of extra platinum, palladium, and osmium around - and if only there were storage we could unload all these mounds of P/P/O.

To put another way - the number of missions we can fulfill with the amount of P/P/O we mine is always more than our supply. I never come home from a mining trip, even in 190 ton mining spec Python and go 'oh geez, here I have 100 tons of P/P/O - and all I can unload are these 3 missions, that leaves me with 91 tons'

It's more like, I have 8-12 tons max of each, so call it 30 tons of combined P/P/O using 10 bin refinery to collect only the top metals. It may require me to visit an extra tech station or two, but I don't ever have an issue of getting rid of my P/P/O because it just doesn't come in high enough volume.

That's why I said if some uber miner or really picky miner spent a huge amount of time to reject all metals, and just kept mining only for P/P/O - vented everything else and god knows how many hours later came back to station with 190 tons of pure P/P/O only - then I feel that guy deserves a cookie AND can sell / mission dump that however he likes, including storage if and when that is ever implemented.

I think what is bizarre is that we have now gone to some dark place where no one is disputing that a miner legitimately earned all that ore, but are now calling an 'exploit' when that miner wants to unload that ore in the most efficient / best reward manner. It's probably why storage won't happen - because people can't distinguish between someone storing something they already earned legitimately with what they see as advantageous selling of that stored item.

 

[CMDR Weatherwax]

As I posted the 'exploit' I'll just say I did heavily caveat that post. Having done some mining the last couple of weeks it was about the only thing I could think of that would describe a way a cargo storage facility could be used to a players advantage, above the current mechanisms in a very small manner and in no way would I contend that this would be a significant issue. I would also agree that having spent hours mining that anyone holding that level of high value metals deserves a medal, cookie and a stiff drink as well as many, many bonuses ;-)

If I had to guess I'd say the lack of cargo storage is more to do with the underlying code/data table just not having the facility to hold the information at present, rather than FD being particularly concerned that it would be exploitable in any major way.