Sarah moved from current project, update no longer coming?

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Genar-Hofoen

Genar-Hofoen
So much drama :)

Here's my take (listens to the groans - but hear me out!)

I know, when I'm working on code, and especially if I've been working on a lot of code over a long period, that you begin to have an emotional attachment to the work you're doing. When you get ripped away from that work - especially if you're almost at the point that it's just about complete - that can get extremely annoying - sometimes to the point that the red mist descends and you might end up doing or saying something you'll regret.

I work from home - I know what it's like to be interrupted by family during what I'd call my "office hours" - i.e. when I'm in my home office and In The Zone, and the wifey comes in to my room and interrupts my work - it takes a LOT of willpower not to get very upset due to my bubble of concentration being burst! :)

This is what I think happened in SJA's case. It's perfectly understandable - we're all only human after all.

So anyway - here's what we know;

1) SJA's been pulled off her favourite work, and onto some other part of the game.

2) It appears that SJA has been effectively "gagged" from speaking on the forums, or talking about whatever it is she's been put to work on.

3) FDEV are hyping up some announcement they're going to make at Gamescom

Given that the Gamescom announcement is on the 5th August - i.e. REALLY SOON NOW! - and given that SJA can't speak about what she's been pulled in to work on, then I'd be willing to bet that SJA has been pulled in to help get finished/iron out some show-stopper problem(s) related to this upcoming Gamescom announcement.

All speculation of course :)

And... time will tell if I was correct or not ;)
 

ToniB

T
ZeeWolf said:
It would be a good idea to focus on what the problems are with the product (feedback) rather than making speculative arguments on theoretical issues based around vague twitter posts. No?
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the most important problem with the product (my feedback): it lacks a decent AI.
 

stephen_usher

stephen_usher
Sorry, making a big thing out of this is completely counter productive and is shooting yourself in the foot.

We have no information about the background to Sarah's transfer so we cannot comment upon it.

This thread is potentially causing problems for Sarah, meaning that she will probably never be able to talk about Elite ever again. It's also forcing Frontier to be even more secretive and closed about the development. Well done! :(

Now, for those who say that the games industry is different, it's an opinion... it's completely and utterly wrong though. Games programming is a commercial software business, just like writing databases or word processors. THERE IS NOTHING DIFFERENT. A game is merely a software application.

Please refrain from blowing these management decisions up into catastrophes. You're just damning yourselves.
 

Vandaahl

Vandaahl
Meanwhile, in the office...

B32QZ1SIAAEBS_X.jpg
 

Cmdr Eagleboy

Cmdr Eagleboy
Mephane said:
Yes, this me here is also a thing about emotions, I never pretended otherwise. But I even stated in my first post in this thread, that for me the much bigger issue is what this all of this means for SJA, than for our getting the AI update later or not at all. If 2 months of work into which she poured her heart and many extra hours are suddenly scrapped, or even just butchered into but a shadow of what she had already achieved there - imagine how it would feel to be in her place.
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As I said, I don't blame her, in fact I would be as well. I am on social media, but that would be exact reason why I would't vent there. However, she removed her posts, so it's up to people not respecting her decision and keep posting pictures of it around.

So yes, Sarah, you're awesome human being, and sorry about mess we have created for you. Good luck with new stuff and hopefully you will be back with us one day.
 
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tifosi

tifosi
Titus Balls said:
I can answer that. I've done projects where I've poured 1 month, 2 months, 6 months - hell even a year into a project only for that work to be replaced, re-prioritised, "butchered", handed to someone else - or for the money to just run out.

Know what I do? I don't go on social media and make an out-of-context emotional plea, or blast at my employer for taking away something I've worked so hard on.

I take on the next challenge handed to me, or I find another job.

And I've been at the lowest point a developer can be - 9 months of my life was working 16 hour days on a pro-rata salary of £35k + equity, no overtime trying to build a startup product for other people. Very little support, working with new technology - nearly broke up my relationship (at the time) and pushed me into burnout and depression.

The best lesson learned was not to get to emotionally attached to your code.
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TRUE DAT! Been there. Best way I coped with it (many years ago) was that even though thousands of lines of my code was being binned as a proejct was canned - I still got to keep my salary and that the company effectively pee'd money up the wall for nothing. Never get attached. You got paid and that's why you're at work.
 

M00ka

M00ka
Genar-Hofoen said:
So much drama :)

Here's my take (listens to the groans - but hear me out!)

I know, when I'm working on code, and especially if I've been working on a lot of code over a long period, that you begin to have an emotional attachment to the work you're doing. When you get ripped away from that work - especially if you're almost at the point that it's just about complete - that can get extremely annoying - sometimes to the point that the red mist descends and you might end up doing or saying something you'll regret.

I work from home - I know what it's like to be interrupted by family during what I'd call my "office hours" - i.e. when I'm in my home office and In The Zone, and the wifey comes in to my room and interrupts my work - it takes a LOT of willpower not to get very upset due to my bubble of concentration being burst! :)

This is what I think happened in SJA's case. It's perfectly understandable - we're all only human after all.

So anyway - here's what we know;

1) SJA's been pulled off her favourite work, and onto some other part of the game.

2) It appears that SJA has been effectively "gagged" from speaking on the forums, or talking about whatever it is she's been put to work on.

3) FDEV are hyping up some announcement they're going to make at Gamescom

Given that the Gamescom announcement is on the 5th August - i.e. REALLY SOON NOW! - and given that SJA can't speak about what she's been pulled in to work on, then I'd be willing to bet that SJA has been pulled in to help get finished/iron out some show-stopper problem(s) related to this upcoming Gamescom announcement.

All speculation of course :)

And... time will tell if I was correct or not ;)
Click to expand...

How dare you come in here with this thing called common sense and submit a post based on knowledge of the industry and personal experience and then have the audacity to propose a very legitimate and well thought out explanation. I am aghast at such a flagrant breach of forum protocols.

Extremely well said, REP to you!
 

Renegade Roach

R
Titus Balls said:
I can answer that. I've done projects where I've poured 1 month, 2 months, 6 months - hell even a year into a project only for that work to be replaced, re-prioritised, "butchered", handed to someone else - or for the money to just run out.

Know what I do? I don't go on social media and make an out-of-context emotional plea, or blast at my employer for taking away something I've worked so hard on.

I take on the next challenge handed to me, or I find another job.

And I've been at the lowest point a developer can be - 9 months of my life was working 16 hour days on a pro-rata salary of £35k + equity, no overtime trying to build a startup product for other people. Very little support, working with new technology - nearly broke up my relationship (at the time) and pushed me into burnout and depression.

The best lesson learned was not to get to emotionally attached to your code.
Click to expand...

Sadly this is somewhat at odds with what many people, including those in the industry, have pushed for in trying to get computer games to be seen as an art form. While I'd agree that getting overly attached to your work might cause pain, customers want passion from their devs. This isn't financial software being developed for a bank, it's not some bland faceless piece of corporate code which will never even be heard about outside the IT department and boardroom. This is something which people invest not just money but emotion, as demonstrated by so many posts including many of yours on this forum. Part of the reason people are upset is because SJA, of all the devs, showed that passion and did not resort to the same old corporate media speak. People don't really care if a marketing or community manager posts 'wow, amazeballs, super secret reveals, SO EXCITED!'. They do care when the people creating the game are as excited and involved as they are. The gaming industry really is not the same as others, it's being a little obtuse to claim so.
 

possessed

possessed
Renegade Roach said:
Sadly this is somewhat at odds with what many people, including those in the industry, have pushed for in trying to get computer games to be seen as an art form. While I'd agree that getting overly attached to your work might cause pain, customers want passion from their devs. This isn't financial software being developed for a bank, it's not some bland faceless piece of corporate code which will never even be heard about outside the IT department and boardroom. This is something which people invest not just money but emotion, as demonstrated by so many posts including many of yours on this forum. Part of the reason people are upset is because SJA, of all the devs, showed that passion and did not resort to the same old corporate media speak. People don't really care if a marketing or community manager posts 'wow, amazeballs, super secret reveals, SO EXCITED!'. They do care when the people creating the game are as excited and involved as they are. The gaming industry really is not the same as others, it's being a little obtuse to claim so.
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+1 rep ...
 

Titus Balls

Titus Balls
Renegade Roach said:
Sadly this is somewhat at odds with what many people, including those in the industry, have pushed for in trying to get computer games to be seen as an art form. While I'd agree that getting overly attached to your work might cause pain, customers want passion from their devs. This isn't financial software being developed for a bank, it's not some bland faceless piece of corporate code which will never even be heard about outside the IT department and boardroom. This is something which people invest not just money but emotion, as demonstrated by so many posts including many of yours on this forum. Part of the reason people are upset is because SJA, of all the devs, showed that passion and did not resort to the same old corporate media speak. People don't really care if a marketing or community manager posts 'wow, amazeballs, super secret reveals, SO EXCITED!'. They do care when the people creating the game are as excited and involved as they are. The gaming industry really is not the same as others, it's being a little obtuse to claim so.
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Sorry but I disagree. I've also worked in the games industry (and the music industry, and recognised art form and I can tell you a lot of the time it's also down to money not passion).

And I can tell you this forum post has destroyed any chance of SJA being able to come back and do what she does on these forums, or anyone else.
 

ZeeWolf

ZeeWolf
Angus said:
Well.................... collectively, I think they probably are.





Despite what David has suggested, I think its clear from this thread that there is a massive audience for the "everybody tries to save the princess" scenario.




;l
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lol.

Are you saying DB is the princess?
 

lysan

lysan
Titus Balls said:
I can answer that. I've done projects where I've poured 1 month, 2 months, 6 months - hell even a year into a project only for that work to be replaced, re-prioritised, "butchered", handed to someone else - or for the money to just run out.

Know what I do? I don't go on social media and make an out-of-context emotional plea, or blast at my employer for taking away something I've worked so hard on.

I take on the next challenge handed to me, or I find another job.

And I've been at the lowest point a developer can be - 9 months of my life was working 16 hour days on a pro-rata salary of £35k + equity, no overtime trying to build a startup product for other people. Very little support, working with new technology - nearly broke up my relationship (at the time) and pushed me into burnout and depression.

The best lesson learned was not to get to emotionally attached to your code.
Click to expand...

I totally agree with you there, however in my company we got HR, you know those who always pop around and ask you how you freaking feel!!! They are very good at pulling "unstable" "resources" to a side and have a chat in the coffee room. I don't know how it work in the coding business, however in the engineering business that is very common.

I had my share of coffee chats, so I must be both unstable and considered a resource :p
 

Titus Balls

Titus Balls
Lysander lysan said:
I totally agree with you there, however in my company we got HR, you know those who always pop around and ask you how you freaking feel!!! They are very good at pulling "unstable" "resources" to a side and have a chat in the coffee room. I don't know how it work in the coding business, however in the engineering business that is very common.

I had my share of coffee chats, so I must be both unstable and considered a resource :p
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Oh it's totally different where I am now - we get support, we're taken out for steak dinners every once in a while, and lunches are bought for us often and every Friday we have beer-o-clock and pub excursions.

We have hack days, we can deal with clients directly or choose to have a director-level deal with something.

But I'm also in London now, and competition to keep good developers is a lot tougher than in Edinburgh.
 

lysan

lysan
Titus Balls said:
Oh it's totally different where I am now - we get support, we're taken out for steak dinners every once in a while, and lunches are bought for us often and every Friday we have beer-o-clock and pub excursions.

We have hack days, we can deal with clients directly or choose to have a director-level deal with something.

But I'm also in London now, and competition to keep good developers is a lot tougher than in Edinburgh.
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I am in the wrong business i see -_-
 

Angus

Angus
Athan said:
That's a nice corporate answer, saying as little as possible. How about you rewrite to specifically:

  1. Acknowledge SJA's great work on ED's AI, including the Docking Computer
  2. Acknowledge her community interaction has been great and very much appreciated
  3. Acknowledge Sarah had valid reason to be upset yesterday.
  4. Re-assure us we'll still see her work on ED's AI 'soon[tm]'
  5. Re-assure us she's valued and will be doing great work on the new project (and if possible tell us if this is even part of ED, or another FD title)
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Quite right.


Also:

6. Strike the letters F and D from the English language.
7. Announce a national holiday taking place on the 24th of July, to be known as "Sarah Day".
8. Repent
9. Goto 9
 
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