I'm an alpha backer been testing since alpha 1. I haven't played anything like the hours the OP has but I uninstalled this after 1.3 patch 1. Hopes not dead but It's just not engaging enough or anything even close to the proposals in the DDF which were the reason I plumped to support the project. Im keeping my hand in here to see what comes up in various updates and maybe reinstall again. It's a beautiful version of google maps "galaxy edition" and i hear traders are reasonably happy but that's about it and it's not enough for people like me at the moment.
1 year short status from my perspective
- Thread starter Comrade Napoleon
- Start date
Onion sauce! Onion sauce!
Ok so far I've read lots of general discontentment in this thread from backers, but not a lot of details about the "original vision of the game" that disappointed you. Care to elaborate for those of us that weren't around in the beginning? I have read a few dev diaries and watched future dev plans (dated from a year ago) and so far the game seems to be going pretty much exactly where they said it would according to Brabens long term ("decade-long" according some inteviews)) development plan for the game. The major changes have been additions rather than subtractions, and the PC version seems to be equal or superior to the console experience. So more money goes to FDEV from adding the Xbox and Mac, and why is that a bad thing exactly? Are they supposed to only focus on PC even though they have capital to expand? Isn't a more financially robust FDev a "good" thing?
I am not trying to troll the OP, and I realize that this game has quite a ways to go before the mechanics are balanced and deep enough to be fully satisfying. I would honestly just like to hear from players with double my time in game about what they see the core problems are? Because my own knowledge and experience says that the game is mostly OK and with very bright future, and I am extremely picky and hard to please even as mature gamers go.
We have a "colossal" announcement coming up in 7 days, and while I am not hyping as I would in the past. I am very curious to see what FD has cooked up for us in near future.
I am not trying to troll the OP, and I realize that this game has quite a ways to go before the mechanics are balanced and deep enough to be fully satisfying. I would honestly just like to hear from players with double my time in game about what they see the core problems are? Because my own knowledge and experience says that the game is mostly OK and with very bright future, and I am extremely picky and hard to please even as mature gamers go.
We have a "colossal" announcement coming up in 7 days, and while I am not hyping as I would in the past. I am very curious to see what FD has cooked up for us in near future.
No, I get the point.
Individuals expressing frustration at the game and its direction are a reality of the gaming market. If enough people leave and quit, then you've got a game that flops. If that doesn't happen, then you don't. Got that.
Now, the reality is that the gaming company produces what it can, based on its idea of what's marketable and what's going to make people happy, as well as its own vision for the game. "Its own vision" is marketing code for: "cool stuff we thought of that you didn't." It's the pleasant surprises. It's the spice in the punch. It's the "wow" factor. A development company that just becomes a coder body-shop trying to implement what they think most of their users wants, is going to produce an uncoordinated mishmash of features and details and the user-base is still going to be unhappy.
There are loads of threads on these forums that contain helpful suggestions for FD and it's apparent to me that FD factors a lot of this stuff in. So far, so good. But what I guarantee you is absolutely a waste of pixels is the "I quit" postings. Why? Because the reason any gamer quits is almost certainly something that the development/management already know. And you can be confident that Braben is not going to read this thread and weep bitter tears for the departure of one more gamer. Braben is looking at a more important thing: the active player base statistics. And, whether it's going up or down, and probably the time in game averages - how long a player plays Elite from when they start. That's never going to be information they'd glean from this kind of pointless thread.
The reason I was dismissive of the OP for starting this thread is because what I said in my comment was literally true: this thread (and threads like it) are a complete waste of time. Unless the objective is to show "I'm a bonehead who doesn't understand how businesses work"; if that's the objective, you can check that box.
I often complainted about a year ago and i received a lot of "beating" from guys like you.
And its not only me, a (very) few others also mentioned that FD is not on the right track, but the mayority refused to listen, marking us as trolls.
Starting to complain NOW is to late, m8...
A post from me 1 year ago :
"For me ED is still an Pre-Alpha, sooo many things are still missing. We will entering Standard Beta in 3 Weeks (!) and i cant imagine that they will add 10 new Spaceships (they promissed us 25!), 3 new Space Stations, the Background Simulation and/or the Mission symstem. Even THIS Features where only 50% of the promissed content. This will be a Beta Run until Summer 2015. Mark my words!"
BTW : We have 20 Spaceships now. From 30 promised ones. But we receive alot of Variations of existing Spaceships now, wow, how creative...
The Background Simulation is not realy working and also the Mission System is still very shallow and boring.
Sometimes it realy hurts to be right
(And tbh : Back then i was far more optimistic then now, because back then i still believed that we will get the game DB pichted on Kickstarter. Whats left : A very shallow version of the pichted Elite Dangereous, Grindy Stuff like "Powerplay", an XBONE Release, (WoT in space) CQC Arena Stuff and "big hopes" on the "colossal announcement".)
And its not only me, a (very) few others also mentioned that FD is not on the right track, but the mayority refused to listen, marking us as trolls.
Starting to complain NOW is to late, m8...
A post from me 1 year ago :
"For me ED is still an Pre-Alpha, sooo many things are still missing. We will entering Standard Beta in 3 Weeks (!) and i cant imagine that they will add 10 new Spaceships (they promissed us 25!), 3 new Space Stations, the Background Simulation and/or the Mission symstem. Even THIS Features where only 50% of the promissed content. This will be a Beta Run until Summer 2015. Mark my words!"
BTW : We have 20 Spaceships now. From 30 promised ones. But we receive alot of Variations of existing Spaceships now, wow, how creative...
The Background Simulation is not realy working and also the Mission System is still very shallow and boring.
Sometimes it realy hurts to be right
(And tbh : Back then i was far more optimistic then now, because back then i still believed that we will get the game DB pichted on Kickstarter. Whats left : A very shallow version of the pichted Elite Dangereous, Grindy Stuff like "Powerplay", an XBONE Release, (WoT in space) CQC Arena Stuff and "big hopes" on the "colossal announcement".)
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There for a moment, I could have swore I was in the wrong forums. That I must have clicked on Star Citizen's forums by accident.
I have "bought" into a few "alpha" games over the years. Now, I wasn't a backer to Elite, because I had already backed SC, and figured one was enough, at the time. But, when I seen it had been "released", I figured; "I can't hurt owning 2 epic space games of the century!". But, I also knew that Elite wasn't "finished" either, and I was basically buying an "alpha/beta".
When I first came across Star Citizen, on kickstarter, I was so excited that ol Chris Roberts was making "ME"(lol) another game, that I jumped in as soon as I could. And, I had all these preconceived notions on how "the game" was going to be. So, when I tell you that it isn't what I thought I was going to get, don't think that I don't realize the potential of what I now see. And, TBH, it's a little better than what I was griping that it "wasn't".
These two forums are not much different. Star Citizen's go through the same emotional roller-coaster that ED fans are. Only difference being ED put out a working, base(Main mechanics), before SC's "alpha". They both have "playability". And, both are lacking, and not finished.
We, as supporters, should do our best to hold back judgements. Not that we shouldn't speak our minds, but rather give them some time. These 2 games are THE most anticipated, by us Sci-Fi lovers, games for us, because we have had NONE for so long. (I can't count EVE..Sorry EVE fans) We have waited YEARS for someone to bring back the epic space feel, that we knew we could get, if they made it. So, can we not, as supporters and lovers of the genre, hold out for them to make it?
I will wait! Someone will here our distress call, they will come!
I have "bought" into a few "alpha" games over the years. Now, I wasn't a backer to Elite, because I had already backed SC, and figured one was enough, at the time. But, when I seen it had been "released", I figured; "I can't hurt owning 2 epic space games of the century!". But, I also knew that Elite wasn't "finished" either, and I was basically buying an "alpha/beta".
When I first came across Star Citizen, on kickstarter, I was so excited that ol Chris Roberts was making "ME"(lol) another game, that I jumped in as soon as I could. And, I had all these preconceived notions on how "the game" was going to be. So, when I tell you that it isn't what I thought I was going to get, don't think that I don't realize the potential of what I now see. And, TBH, it's a little better than what I was griping that it "wasn't".
These two forums are not much different. Star Citizen's go through the same emotional roller-coaster that ED fans are. Only difference being ED put out a working, base(Main mechanics), before SC's "alpha". They both have "playability". And, both are lacking, and not finished.
We, as supporters, should do our best to hold back judgements. Not that we shouldn't speak our minds, but rather give them some time. These 2 games are THE most anticipated, by us Sci-Fi lovers, games for us, because we have had NONE for so long. (I can't count EVE..Sorry EVE fans) We have waited YEARS for someone to bring back the epic space feel, that we knew we could get, if they made it. So, can we not, as supporters and lovers of the genre, hold out for them to make it?
I will wait! Someone will here our distress call, they will come!
I disagree, and find pseudo intellectual contempt for consumer feedback another disheartening trait of this game. It seems to attract such passive aggressive responders. Post release we even saw 'White Knights' having a go at each other amidst their cries of disdain for this or that. FD are blessed in that some care enough to even post their thoughts, unlike the hundreds of thousands who virtually quit this game without a drop of feedback.
Notice they aren't posting player activity, like a lot of games do.
What the above quote is really saying, if you read between the lines, is; 'Let FD screw themselves, FD does not care because nobody else matters.'
... but I bet Zac, and a whole team of Developers would say otherwise.
'People do not understand this.' ... other than you, and everybody else with a clue, and quite likely the OP as well. Yes, it was condescending. Anyway, the point is not the amount of time it is taking to 'flesh out and develop', it's the type of fleshing out and developing that FD have chosen to do. They have not put nearly enough time into the background sim because they have put development time into CQC and PP, stuff which was originally never part of the plan and not what people backed. That's not even touching the wealth of features that were touted in the dev diaries and Braben's various pre release sales pitches.
Yes, people can say 'it's just business, you don't understand' blah blah. There's nothing wrong with Frontier looking to open new markets and bring in more players either. What is wrong is leaving the people who got your project off the ground hanging. It is also very short sighted. Maybe Elite will catch on with the Xbox crowd. Maybe the people they are dumbing the game down and adding stuff like CQC for will stick around long term, but they don't know that. What they did know was that their backers and original players would largely have been in it for the long haul. Sadly Frontier seem to have not just taken this for granted, they've taken advantage of it. Rather than developing what they touted to those fans they are saying 'well, you'll stick around anyway, so we can afford to ignore you for now'. When it comes time to sell expansions you can bet they'll be bending over to get the backers to buy in again. The overall marketing and management direction has been shallow and pretty disrespectful, and it's costing them the support of the people they should be trying hardest to hold on to.
Nope - the people who's support it is costing them are the people who want the moon on a stick, for virtually no cost, and will be critical no matter what FD do. These are the little people, with little or no influence in the community versus those who support the game and the company and rally them on to new heights. Of course things move in different directions to the original stated concepts - it is the natural way of evolutionary processes. This is NOT a bad thing overall.
I played all the Elite games and I am mostly happy with the way things are evolving. For me, personally, I am not taking part in Power Play and am not really all that interested in it, but I appreciate that it is suitable for some styles of play and I am supportive of the fact that it is there, in game, for those people. I will probably dabble in CQC just to see how it plays but being more of a generalist myself, that is, not a combat specialist, I suspect that it won't hold my interest for too long. This is also something that was not talked about in the original design documents - but does that make it a "bad thing"? Hell no! They are going above and beyond the original design and I am all for that.
So - cheerio little people - have a nice day (playing the magical "better" space sim game that is out there - good luck finding that) and don't let the door hit you in the <insert bottom-place here> on the way out.
<fire extinguisher at the ready ... 3, 2, 1 ... >
I wonder how the minecraft forums are doing?
No, serious question. That's another game that deals heavily in procedural generation and is still receiving updates. I wonder how the player base reacts to the direction the devs have been taking with that game.
I know they turned down steam, and also did not let Microsoft get any exclusive content that pc users couldn't emulate (skins).
It seems that Elite has gone the other direction, caving from pressures of the industry.
A quick glance at the forums for mojang and they seem like a generally happy bunch. Nothing sticks out as overly negative.
No, serious question. That's another game that deals heavily in procedural generation and is still receiving updates. I wonder how the player base reacts to the direction the devs have been taking with that game.
I know they turned down steam, and also did not let Microsoft get any exclusive content that pc users couldn't emulate (skins).
It seems that Elite has gone the other direction, caving from pressures of the industry.
A quick glance at the forums for mojang and they seem like a generally happy bunch. Nothing sticks out as overly negative.
Wow its over you head. I can understand that you don't understand. That is fine. But simply because your hurt feelings are getting in the way of your logic does not mean the way you feel is how it is. That was condescending. The point is indeed the amount of time sunk into developing a game. Which is why I said people don't understand it.
Try Space Engineers?
Correct. Or share that information, publicly.
Thats an example of the difference it the type of development. Minecraft is a fully developed game already. ED is not, its in a progressive release and is not fully developed (AND THIS WAS THE PLAN ALL ALONG) A lot of ppl on this forum tend to forget (or act) that ED was not ever planned or talked about to be a fully developed release and its gonna be over time! This forum really bugs me with that. Even when staff members post, they usually always state that their focus right now is further dev of this game. Because its not close to being finished! Just as planned. /frustration
- - - Updated - - -
Is that still Alpha?
Man, I still have the hype. And I was one of the earliest kickstarter backers. If you play to much you get burnt out. So yesterday me and my brother played again for first time in a month and we had real fun in a RES. We earned some cash, blew up some ships and got some beating ourselves. All in all a great session. But I think its a pity I spend more time on the forum than in the game. But I am still here and have the same feeling I had a year ago. This game will get better with time and it still delivers. But I am also looking forward for Gamescom. To the great reveal. I hope its great though
Something in here does not quite compute. If you've been playing for a year, you obviously can't be that disappointed, or you'd have stopped 11+ months ago.
I genuinely don't mean to be a smartass, but I think the reason there are so many complaints on this forum isn't that the game isn't good, but that it has so much potential and it still hasn't reached it. That's the problem with the scope of what Frontier took on - a simulation of a galaxy. And the problem with something that enormous is that the demands and expectations are, well, astronomical.
Pretty much every single element in the game could be improved, and you'll find countless threads demanding Frontier rectify each one. Exploration. Bounty Hunting. Piracy. Trading. Fix the BGS. Add more detailed missions. Get rid of the grind. Add more purpose. But get rid of Powerplay. Add lots more ships, but make every single one unique and special.
I have to admit - I wasn't a backer, so perhaps I don't feel the same level of frustration as some others. There is so much I'd love to see, and I've had my share of complaints. But the fact that people are complaining, yet still playing, is more indicative of the potential of the game than of its failings, IMO.
Yes, or Early Access. Feature incomplete, like Elite, only labelled as such, planets probably in Sept. , new net code (C++) to follow, game is progressing very nicely.
You nailed it. +1 to you. You have answered all the whines and rants with one post. And all the wishes, hopes and ideas for the game. In a huge galaxy, how can you satisfy everyone. The game is still under development and has such potential that peoples minds boils over with ideas and wishes. Elite is the Sci Fi nerds wet dream come true. People are just enthusiastic and that leads to all the different posts and threads. And I bet many of those which have taken a break from the game will come back when new features are released. Its like throwing snacks to a dog. It always comes back for more
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Yup. Every business has to understand where it's money is going to come from - which is a different thing from where it's user-base is going to come from (sometimes). There are some customers it's not worth having because they're more trouble servicing than they're worth in terms of revenue. Anyone running a business either understands that and knows how to track their market, or they're amateurs that are out of business. The industry is littered with games companies that tried to be everything to everyone.
I think it's funny that people in a frakkin' online game forum think they're going to make the business decisions for a product company, let alone a product company that has a solid hit on their hands. ED is a solid hit, not a mega-hit. That means they have some options opening up and as far as I can see they've taken them: expanded to another platform, queued up an expansion, added developers.
Many of the people lecturing here about what FD should do aren't even taking into account the sales model of the software, which is absolutely critical to understanding what's going on. FD is selling the game as a one-time payment, not an ongoing service. So, the question they have is not retaining customers (once you've bought it, they have your money) but how to produce sequels and follow-ons that will bring in more revenue. Retaining customers is nice, of course, since they're going to want to be able to sell into that existing user-base, but it's a really different dynamic from something subscription-based like World of Warcraft where the fluctuations in the user-base each month mean literally millions of dollars going into (or not going into) Blizzard's pocket. It seems like FD's taking the approach that they're going to keep expanding access to larger user-bases (steam, Xbox) and probably Playstation next, then trying to queue up for an expansion that will attract enough of the existing user-base and enough of a new user-base to keep them growing the game.
It's an interesting strategy; I think Blizzard's focus on subscriber base led them to make some rather -meh- decisions. So maybe FD's approach will work better. It'll be interesting to see.
But you can bet your last dollar that those decisions are not being made based on "That's it, I quit." postings on the forums. In fact, we're looking at a go to market strategy that was set in stone over a year ago, and which is probably not possible to change at this point. Want to see real wailing and rending of garments: imagine if FD switched to a different sales model, now.
(Oh, and WRT "pseudointellectual comments" uh, I ran a software company I started and grew it from $0/yr sales to $32m/year with 120 employees. To you it may sound like I'm being psuedointellectual, but to me I think I sound like I know what I'm talking about)
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You make a fair point, I was only comparing the choices of caving to pressure by elite vs. Notch's refusal to join steam or give Microsoft any form of tangible exclusive.
I've been playing minecraft since~2009 and I remember a time when notch said absolutely no ladders as he thought they cheapened gameplay.
But finally the community convinced him and they were coded in.
He let go of his own dream for the game and let the players have what they wanted.
Granted that's a really simple example and elite assets probably take more time to develop but the point is notch was able to abandon something for the sake of the players. I think that shows a lot.
Not to mention mojang communication is 10/10.