Nerf crowd about to ruin the game again

[Vasious]

Sorry but how are SCB critical to PvE?
Balanced or otherwise, that seems like quite an assertion.

PvE seemed to be fine before they were introduced?

Is this a I don't want to go back to the dock to rearm thing?

The whole finite resources ruins things, as opposed to being a meaningful choice?

You want to be able to sit in RES for hours on end, with no need to stop or rearm or recharge shields, minimizing any possible risk of actually being damaged let alone slowing the X Millions of Credits a hour income which will later be derided as a grind despite defending a set up designed to do just that?

 

[FuzzySpider]

I can't even A-rate my shields or powerplant yet, no, I do not have 400Mcr to spend on armor.

Then you haven't got any business flying in SSSs. Those are for people who have maxed out their ships and want a challenge.

And judging my combat skills based on what you see in a forum is not only despicable, it is stupid. Don't judge. What I'm NOT good at is PvP, or I'd challenge you to a duel. I'm a PvEer and good at that.

If you were good at it you'd be able to manage without SCBs.

Nope. You're just a bad Anaconda driver perhaps? Remember, the Asp is way more maneuverable than the 'conda so it can get in tight behind you and wail on those shields - and your powerplant and/or drives - all day long with you barely being able to hit it. Any ship using silent running while fighting your 'conda will also be harder to kill because you can't lock on to it.
For every hit you land they will land 5 or more. That's not a successful ratio.

Fitted for trade Anaconda = fitted for it's own destruction. You're going to want chaff & SCBs and the highest grade thrusters to survive and a "trade fitted" Anaconda like it seems you fly (?) isn't going to survive long when they pile on.

I am not good at combat. But that is actually besides the point.

I had this guy in my sights plenty of times, I pumped 3 large pulses into him aplenty, and even scored quite a few hits with my huge cannon.

His shields just kept coming back up, and up, and up, and up, and up, and up, and up....

He wasn't particularly skilled either. The entire battle was decided by who had packed the most SCBs. Due to his playing specifically for PKing he didn't need any module space for anything but SCBs, I was just a trader minding my own business, so I didn't have any.

Limit them to one, have them slowly charge over time so they can't just be turned on when used (forcing people to make sacrifices in terms of power usage) and make skill actually mean something again.

A Nerf would be kind of ridiculous, If someone wants to put as many shield cell banks on their ship as will fit that is their decision. And if you get owned by them for not doing the same that is your fault for not spending the money or equipping your self to a full combat loadout or at very least scanning them to see what they pack before you go picking fights. And for everyone who thinks shield cell banks are unrealistic or OP, check yourself because its over 1000 years in the future and they have managed to create shields, you would literally have to be brain dead to think they couldn't invent what is basically a large battery/ Capacitor to dump a large amount of stored energy into your shields.

Congratulations, you've just made a game where everyone in open has to use just SCBs, thus making open trading, piracy, exploration etc a thing of the past.

 

[mossfoot]

Maybe recharge times should be influenced by power distributor and power plant. So no more 1mj/s for every loadout. Additionally SCBs should not improve online shields but boost recharge times once they dropped. This way fights would become more dynamic, you would fight without shields because you have a bigger chance to recover before the battle is over. Additionally fighting without shields would lead to more system malfunctions giving the whole fighting more tension and make it unpredictable.

I rather like this idea too!

 

[Nonya]

I think this sums it all up nicely:

I am not good at combat. But that is actually besides the point.

No, it's the entire point. If you're not good at combat don't nerf a module when it's your own skill that needs buffing.

 

[DentRed]

What's important, in my opinion, is how "needed" is any one module, and right n SCB's are far too important if you play in open. If you are interdicted by a Cmdr, it's really only a matter of who has the most SCB's. I read another post, no link, can't remember, where someone posted an invincible Anaconda, it had so many SCB's on it, it would last over an hour I imagine. That just breaks the game, they need more balance.

The fact that you think a A fit Anaconda costing around 500 mill to buy and outfit should not be OP to most ships is INSANE.
It's just like when people compare the FDL (100mil if that) to the python (250mil). Your not even playing in the same ball park, a python loaded completely for combat and not multitasking should devastate a FDL unless the pilot is blasted out of his mind.
There's also the fact that most of the people who are vocal of the forums avidly complain from day to day and the people who are satisfied are to busy playing the game. So just like with reviews you only get the bad

 

[FuzzySpider]

I think this sums it all up nicely:



No, it's the entire point. If you're not good at combat don't nerf a module when it's your own skill that needs buffing.[/COLOR]

You're not actually paying any attention are you?

Skill doesn't matter when someone else can just spam SCBs. If your "tactic" involves just raising your shields to ten times your opponent then skill isn't an issue, and you really think it is then you need to revisit your own definition of "skill".

 

[askavir]

Sorry but how are SCB critical to PvE?

For what i've seen on this thread, weak / lazy pilots find SCB critical because it allows them to feel like Manfred Von Richtofen.

 

[Nonya]

You're not actually paying any attention are you?

Skill doesn't matter when someone else can just spam SCBs. If your "tactic" involves just raising your shields to ten times your opponent then skill isn't an issue, and you really think it is then you need to revisit your own definition of "skill".

Point is, why are you even engaging in these fights anyway? You do know you can scan the other ship and see their loadout?
I recommend reading up on Sun Tzu's "The Art of War".

 

[peter101cycle]

SCB's should be nerfed, period.....

Somebody mentioned about watching videos of PvP'ers just battling loaded up with SCB's - its boring and makes a nonsense of combat. A small ship shouldn't be able to take out bigger ships, unless they're in a pack. I'd rather go back to just shields on the ship, plus armour for protection.

 

[FuzzySpider]

Point is, why are you even engaging in these fights anyway? You do know you can scan the other ship and see their loadout?

The point is, why do you need a module which makes you invulnerable to people who haven't outfitted their own ships in a similar fashion? Why can't you use some actual skill and tactics rather than endless health potions to defeat enemies if you've been reading...

I recommend reading up on Sun Tzu's "The Art of War".

..."Know your health potion supply, keep it at 10x your enemy, and your victory won't stand in doubt".

Right. Tactics, strategy. Yes.

 

[DentRed]

Congratulations, you've just made a game where everyone in open has to use just SCBs, thus making open trading, piracy, exploration etc a thing of the past.

Congratz on your ignorance Commander I made elite trader in open without any problems not that people didn't try but its just so easy to get away from anyone in a ship even capable of stacking that a cave man could do it. But your probably one of those pilots who doesn't access each situation and tries to fight everything head on and just ends up being fodder and now your mad complaining about how SCB render every other profession moot because space is so small and its hard to not be interdicted over and over again.

 

[mossfoot]

I posted something in the other thread about this that outlines my concerns in a (hopefully) readable and logical manner!

Given that some readers no doubt failed to see (or click) that link, I'll just repost your excellent point here (hope you don't mind)

SCBs are the devil's work. They weren't necessary to add in the first place, and have degraded both PvP and PvE gameplay.

They have propagated the mindset where players are super special in the galaxy. Why don't all decent NPC assassination targets and out-and-out murderous NPC pirates have ten cells to spam? By rights, they should... but players are special, right? We can't have NPCs using cheap, efficient and obviously effective loadouts...

To my mind, SCBs CREATE players exclusively focused on player-killing.

Here's why...


Q: Do you think you might attack and try to kill another player?

NO -> Fit out a "non player killer" ship... which is basically anything other than carrying a full rack of SCBs.

YES -> Create a "player killer" ship - fit as many SCBs as possible.


Q: I'm flying a "non player killer ship". What should I do in this game?

A: Lots of stuff, except for fighting other players. I can dabble in exploration, smuggle, fight off NPC pirates, trade in rares or in regular goods, pirate NPCs, bounty hunt NPCs, etc. But stay the hell away from other players.


Q: I'm flying a "player killer" ship. What should I do in this game.

A: Kill players.


Q: I'm flying a player killer ship, but just got killed by another pilot in his player killer ship who had one more SCB than me. What should I do with the token 8t cargo rack I foolishly retained for "RP pirating" or picking up special things I come across?

A: Ditch the 8 tonnes of cargo space and fit another SCB, of course. Specialise more. Discard anything not absolutely focused on player killing.


Q: 95% of players just avoid me in my player-killer ship. The 5% that don't avoid me all fly player-killer ships in wings of 4, and kill me. What do I do?

A: Wing up with three other like-minded, fully specialised player-killer ship pilots.


Q: Me and my three friends wanted to have fun playing Elite, but all we do is fly around in a wing of player-killer ships, looking for other player-killers. This is getting really boring when there are no gudfites, which is most of the time. Why is this game boring?

A: Because you are flying in a specialised wing of player-killer ships in a game that is honestly not built around PvP gudfites, and your ships cannot do anything particularly well except kill other players. And if you DO get in a good fight, your shield cells are the key to victory... and you just used some up. So EVERY fight is quickly followed by a trip back to buy some more, before you are back to full player-killer effectiveness. God knows, you wouldn't want to meet other specialised player-killers with only 50% of your cells remaining.

You're bored because your entire game has shrunk down to a very small and repetitive gameplay style, with a very limited loadout flexibility, probably in a small number of systems, and probably fighting against a very small number of like-minded, and similarly specialised, players.


Q: I'm getting seriously bored and frustrated now with Elite, in my 100% player-killer focused ship, with my 100% player-killer focused in-game friends. What's to stop me making life "interesting" and injecting some hilarious forum drama by just going ape, and killing every player I see?

A: Technically nothing. Don't forget to bait, goad and annoy people with comments about "salty tears", "care bears" and such. Perhaps some people will grow a pair and actually challenge you in battle if you kill enough Haulers, Sidewinders and Type 6 in systems where newer players congregate!



Q: Why am I seeing fewer and fewer people in Open Play these days?

A: No idea. Honest. No idea at all.

 

[Vasious]

I can't even A-rate my shields or powerplant yet, no, I do not have 400Mcr to spend on armor. And judging my combat skills based on what you see in a forum is not only despicable, it is stupid. Don't judge. What I'm NOT good at is PvP, or I'd challenge you to a duel. I'm a PvEer and good at that.

Then you haven't got any business flying in SSSs. Those are for people who have maxed out their ships and want a challenge.

You can, if careful and sneaky, in the SSS that involves a pirate attack on a convoy or brawl between bounty hunters/System Authority vessels & Pirates, make quite a lot of money on bounties in a Sidewinder....
Yes you can also be, probably literally, vaporized by Class 3 weapons that score a hit, but a whole heap of fun, more so than CZ and RESes

---

Oh my point is ditch the if I don't have ship x y z with items a b c then I cannot try activity q frame of mind.
Give things a go, see how can you make it worth without all the stuff you think you need.
You might fail a lot but the one time it works it is well worth the effort.

 

[Nonya]

Congratz on your ignorance Commander I made elite trader in open without any problems not that people didn't try but its just so easy to get away from anyone in a ship even capable of stacking that a cave man could do it. But your probably one of those pilots who doesn't access each situation and tries to fight everything head on and just ends up being fodder and now your mad complaining about how SCB render every other profession moot because space is so small and its hard to not be interdicted over and over again.

Hear, hear!
As you've well described, picking your battles is the way to go in this game. Picking the wrong one should always result in death.

 

[Ginrikuzuma]

I've only read the first two pages so I don't know if someone has made a better suggestion but this is the only nerf I would accept if we had to have one.

--- snip ---

My personal preference for SCBs would for them simply to be single use that recharge by themselves, but take a good few minutes to do so. So basically you can fire them once per fight at best (unless its a very long fight). Not sure how well it would work in reality, but feel perhaps better than the current situation.

-- snip --

PvP wise, this would allow slugfests to be shorter and quicker.

PvE wise, this would allow fights in combat zones to remain just as long if not longer since npcs will usually not give you chase (aside from that 1-2 occasional npcs that chases you 8km away from the the center of the fight as you wait for the shields to come back ).


Since I do agree with OP in that nerfing SCBs will have a greater negative impact on PvE than PvP I would say we need to wait on the changes to AI (if it is true that their new programming wasn't completely scrapped that is...)

edit: if anything, I feel like having more internal component variety in the name of combat (aside from just SCBs and generators) should come first before we have any nerfs. Introduction of new module components (similar to utility mounts but internal only) might vary up builds

 

[AlexRyder]

With regard to the lost about things working differently in open or solo.. Frankly that would be bloody stupid.
With regard to the person that said a small ship shouldn't be able to kill a bigger one... Why not? The skill of the pilot is the important factor not the size of epeen. This is not EvE

 

[Agony_Aunt]

I don't mind being run off from time to time, but it's really disheartening to get into situations where there's literally Nothing I Can Do but die, and that's why I like my SCBs the way they are.

You have the option of not engaging in situations where you might lose in the first place, or if you are caught in one, you usually have the option to run, especially against NPCs.

Can't expect every situation to be winnable, that would be boring.

I went against an Elite Python earlier in my semi-combat Asp, and it blew me up. I chose not to run, hoping to get that last hit in that would take it down. He got me first, cost me a couple of million. My fault. If i'd have reconfigured my Asp for full combat, i'm sure i could have won it, or if i'd have backed off, let my shields recharge and have another go i might have got it. Only myself to blame. Shield cells would have made it easier, but could have done it without them if i'd used my brain.

EDIT: Before people start thinking i'm completely crap at combat. The Python had two Viper wingmen with him as well who were pounding on me.

 

[DentRed]

Pro tip 98% of NPC ( there is a wild factor) interdictions are detectable before they happen if you know what to look for *Cough* radar *cough* and with players the number is like 99.9% . Giving you lots of time to take one of many actions. But i'm sure you knew that...

 

[FuzzySpider]

Hear, hear!
As you've well described, picking your battles is the way to go in this game. Picking the wrong one should always result in death.

I disagree.

Battle should be dangerous, not safe. Attacking another player should be a risk, and standing your ground and fighting back should be an option. Always stacking the odds in one persons favour, forcing a game of flee or destruction (basically removing dynamic combat from the game) is boring and completely removes actual skill from combat.

 

[Nonya]

I disagree.

Battle should be dangerous, not safe. Attacking another player should be a risk, and standing your ground and fighting back should be an option. Always stacking the odds in one persons favour, forcing a game of flee or destruction (basically removing dynamic combat from the game) is boring and completely removes actual skill from combat.

I'm sorry, I tend to look at this from the viewpoint of a inactive soldier who has been in firefights before.
You NEVER want a fair fight. You want a fight to be as "boring" as possible and every fight is dangerous as hell.
You always want to the stack the odds in your favor, period. You want the other guy dead or running in terror - preferably running in terror to their death.

I think the real problem is folks flying in opening wanting to be a gangster until it's time to do gangster "stuff".