Nerf crowd about to ruin the game again
- Thread starter dc83
- Start date
never used them and never had a problem, this is not a MMO with boosters...
The Pips system is enough if you are a good pilot.
The Pips system is enough if you are a good pilot.
I dunno why PvE players have issues with them being disallowed. I've never felt the need to use them and generally run away if outnumbered.
Sure, I'm not maximizing profits by the quickest way to stay for prolonged times in a High Res or w/e but I have a few ships now just by playing the game and running when I see sense to.
Makes sense to me, fight battles I can win, run if outnumbered / outgunned. I just wouldn't like to be that "unstoppable" guy at mid-rank...I'd probably get bored. I'd like to earn it, even if unlikely. That, in itself is the game, but stacking SCB's just seems too easy.
As some have mentioned, their benefits do seem OP in relation to the other mechanics.
I still think they are unbalanced and open to exploitation though.
Sure, I'm not maximizing profits by the quickest way to stay for prolonged times in a High Res or w/e but I have a few ships now just by playing the game and running when I see sense to.
Makes sense to me, fight battles I can win, run if outnumbered / outgunned. I just wouldn't like to be that "unstoppable" guy at mid-rank...I'd probably get bored. I'd like to earn it, even if unlikely. That, in itself is the game, but stacking SCB's just seems too easy.
As some have mentioned, their benefits do seem OP in relation to the other mechanics.
I still think they are unbalanced and open to exploitation though.
QFT.
It's pvp feature after pvp feature while the pve content stays shallow. This Gamesom announcement REALLY needs to deliver some solid PVE features.
SCB's are one of the many reasons PvE stays shallow. No threat means no fun, no fun means people start using the word grind a lot. Go figure.
Exactly, and if FD believe that most people run scb for pve then they start to balance content against that. That will make things increasingly difficult for those who do not wish to run scb. We're already seeing them introduce 'harder' sites to appease the pve cell stackers. It's not encouraging that this is the solution they have gone with, rather than allowing SJA's AI update to go through which would have necessitated better piloting skills rather than just cheesing it with multiple cell banks. Even worse than that they will balance new ship's base shield stats against the assumption that people will run cell banks. So yeah, arguing that it's all about pvp is extremely blinkered.
I use heat syncs - I found some NPCs are quite amusing with them.
It's like playing fetch with a very dumb dog.
Did it with my T9 when an NPC Anaconda pulled me over, I had 2 syncs on my underside, just fired 2 off so my heat was 0 and of it went after them.
When I stopped laughing, I spun up my FSD and left as it turned around to come back.
It works in a RES as well, quite funny when you're in a Viper shooting them from behind as they chase your syncs lol
Shield Cells are in no way critical to PvE. They are a nice crutch for when you let your situational awareness lapse, that's all. Relying on them just entrenches bad piloting habits.
I say this has a pretty much a PvE'er, so far. Nothing against PvP, just not done it much.
I am all for redesigning them so you can only have set per ship. It should be a special use "oh crap" button, not something you rely on to get through every fight.
I say this has a pretty much a PvE'er, so far. Nothing against PvP, just not done it much.
I am all for redesigning them so you can only have set per ship. It should be a special use "oh crap" button, not something you rely on to get through every fight.
That's true, but every time I run in a CZ Pythons and Anacondas tend run mostly fixed and some frag/beam/MC turrets. Notably, turrets aren't affected by chaff.
This means that even while flying evasively, I'm getting hit by a turret.
Obviously that means I'm taking less damage than I would be infront of fixed weapons, but it's still near constant shield damage which stacks up after awhile.
If you want to keep up your killrate and thus your profits a SCB is pretty much a necessity.
RESing and ships in USS/SSS is somewhat different since these tend to pack a higher proportion of gimbals, so chaff actually works.
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I just took my Python into a RES, kinda late and I'm really sleepy.
Started shooting at an NPC Python, wing of 3 with 2 Vultures or something. Anyway, I started taking a lot of damage. 'Hmm' I thought slowly putting 4 pips to shields and pew pewing the Python while popping my scb. Don't think too much of it since I expect 2 Vultures and a Python to tickle a bit.
'Still taking a lot of damage' I think as the Python explodes, 'shouldn't that have gone down a bit?', pop another scb and look at my scanner. 'Oh, there are 15 flashy red triangles... shiny'. Pop another scb.
'Maybe I ought to actually leave, since I don't think they're going to stop..', boost, boost, oh forgot to put pips to engines, no boost. pop another scb.
'Hmm that really is a lot of shiny weapon stuff flying past my cockpit, maybe I ought to fsd..' .... hit the wrong thing and don't notice (I told you I was tired)... 'Uh still here.. those red triangles are really angry'... pop another scb.
Finally low wake out and head off to dock. No hull damage.
YAY! SCB.... TOTALLY BALANCED!!!
Started shooting at an NPC Python, wing of 3 with 2 Vultures or something. Anyway, I started taking a lot of damage. 'Hmm' I thought slowly putting 4 pips to shields and pew pewing the Python while popping my scb. Don't think too much of it since I expect 2 Vultures and a Python to tickle a bit.
'Still taking a lot of damage' I think as the Python explodes, 'shouldn't that have gone down a bit?', pop another scb and look at my scanner. 'Oh, there are 15 flashy red triangles... shiny'. Pop another scb.
'Maybe I ought to actually leave, since I don't think they're going to stop..', boost, boost, oh forgot to put pips to engines, no boost. pop another scb.
'Hmm that really is a lot of shiny weapon stuff flying past my cockpit, maybe I ought to fsd..' .... hit the wrong thing and don't notice (I told you I was tired)... 'Uh still here.. those red triangles are really angry'... pop another scb.
Finally low wake out and head off to dock. No hull damage.
YAY! SCB.... TOTALLY BALANCED!!!
The title word "again" implies that the game has been already 'ruined' ... I think I see your error.
Chaff works on turrets, no? I've done High Intensity CZ's in a Viper, Scout, Asp, Python, Clipper, Vulture, and Fer-De-Lance. Sometimes with SCB, but more often without. I usually stay until I have 500k to a million, then I cash in just to be safe.
It probably depends a lot on what you're flying. If I'm in a lighter ship, I stay out of the heavier fights unless I have some NPC or player support, as it should be. If in a heavier defended but slower ship, I'll take on the heavies, but watch the radar to keep an eye on my target getting its own backup. You have to know the limits of your ship and play to that.
Over-SCB just invalidates ship strength and weaknesses and lets anyone just play to shields, and that's kinda lame, imo.
Maybe I'm lacking perspective, but the Pro-SBC line seems to be mostly that it's necessary to take on half-a-dozen NPC ships at once.
I've bounty-hunted a lot early, but I can't help but wonder why we should think that CMDRs ought to be able to regularly take on entire wings of enemies solo.
This is a multiplayer game. Be social. Get yourself a wing. Some content ought not be reasonably doable solo.
Yes, any half-decent player can take on almost any NPC ship, but why must we be 1-pilot engines of all-powerful destruction?
I've bounty-hunted a lot early, but I can't help but wonder why we should think that CMDRs ought to be able to regularly take on entire wings of enemies solo.
This is a multiplayer game. Be social. Get yourself a wing. Some content ought not be reasonably doable solo.
Yes, any half-decent player can take on almost any NPC ship, but why must we be 1-pilot engines of all-powerful destruction?
Exactly. I think I am a pretty decent pilot. But I LIKE that's there's encounters that I just boost away from in terror. If there's no risk, there's no reward.
Well I hope this is taken in the spirit intended...if not...I'll explain...not flaming nor saying anyones point is invalid or less important...this is just another opinion of equal import...and may bring some additional thought to the table.
1. ED is not strictly an MMO...its a space sim with MMO elements
2. MMO ex...WOW,TERRA,SWTOR,STO,EVE..etc
3. all the titles in 2 have one thing in common...PVP people asking for a nerf...that affects those that don't give one hang for PVP
Another cosmic idea...online gaming is NOT just about people vs people. it is also about a massive social media that people from different backgrounds can enjoy elements of an environment in the same verse.
Folks there are games that cater to just PVP people...go play them if that's all you want.
However ED was built with more than just the PVP person in mind...with that said
stop asking for changes that will affect those that don't follow your line of thinking...what is being asked for caters to a percentage of people...that will force another percentage to live by what the believe to be a more valid point of view.
This is neither true nor is it enlightened...but possibly more narrow.
I play in both worlds...depends on my mood...If someone pops those buggers guess what...my guns still work...and if im still in the fight...I'm good to go...maybe I got em...maybe I don't...maybe I have an over inflated ego and don't think it might get me out of a tight spot...who knows...one thing is for certain...unless that pilot is better than you...he still isn't gonna win...unless hes outclassed your vessel by a large margin...if the pilot isn't...your edge is still skill...and you will still win..
lets see...well the guy ran...you won...I didn't get to make his ship go pop...you still won...he just got to save his ship...even without the scb's he might still be able to rabbit.
He killed me...you lost...he killed me and he had scb's...well you still lost...its not fair...oh wait...you want "balance"...nothing has an edge...everything is mediocre...wait there is a problem...the industry is full of mediocrity because of similar issues.
create a group...make the rules ...have everyone that wants the nerf to happen...join said group...now you have what you want without imposing your will on the rest.
easy fix..FDev can now go back to getting more content out so they don't have to back track for "balancing"...again.
seriously though...I've made my cry to...different topic...FDL needs to fit its advertised purpose...my "opinion" is that it doesn't....some agree...some don't...guess what...FD isn't gonna change it...why should they change this?...my point in my mind is just as valid...others agree it is...isn't it MORE valid?...nope.
Same applies here guys...for the love of the game...let FD get back to getting us more stuff...stop fixing what isn't broke but inconvenient to you.
Others have found ways to compensate for scb's in PVP...its a game not a career...no real money hitting you on payday...maybe instead of asking for change...maybe you should change...or learn to compensate better while in combat...I couldn't tell you...and am not...repeat not saying you aren't good...but from some post and in other areas...doesn't seem like the good pilots care one wit...and they still get the kills
Hopefully if this is read...people see the humor in which it is intended...and perhaps I should put a disclaimer in to ensure that any parties that are described in here are purely fictional and if they remotely ressemble any one person or point to any one persons opinion it is strictly coincidental...etc..etc just like the movie credits peace!!
peace and prosperity by any means!!
1. ED is not strictly an MMO...its a space sim with MMO elements
2. MMO ex...WOW,TERRA,SWTOR,STO,EVE..etc
3. all the titles in 2 have one thing in common...PVP people asking for a nerf...that affects those that don't give one hang for PVP
Another cosmic idea...online gaming is NOT just about people vs people. it is also about a massive social media that people from different backgrounds can enjoy elements of an environment in the same verse.
Folks there are games that cater to just PVP people...go play them if that's all you want.
However ED was built with more than just the PVP person in mind...with that said
stop asking for changes that will affect those that don't follow your line of thinking...what is being asked for caters to a percentage of people...that will force another percentage to live by what the believe to be a more valid point of view.
This is neither true nor is it enlightened...but possibly more narrow.
I play in both worlds...depends on my mood...If someone pops those buggers guess what...my guns still work...and if im still in the fight...I'm good to go...maybe I got em...maybe I don't...maybe I have an over inflated ego and don't think it might get me out of a tight spot...who knows...one thing is for certain...unless that pilot is better than you...he still isn't gonna win...unless hes outclassed your vessel by a large margin...if the pilot isn't...your edge is still skill...and you will still win..
lets see...well the guy ran...you won...I didn't get to make his ship go pop...you still won...he just got to save his ship...even without the scb's he might still be able to rabbit.
He killed me...you lost...he killed me and he had scb's...well you still lost...its not fair...oh wait...you want "balance"...nothing has an edge...everything is mediocre...wait there is a problem...the industry is full of mediocrity because of similar issues.
create a group...make the rules ...have everyone that wants the nerf to happen...join said group...now you have what you want without imposing your will on the rest.
easy fix..FDev can now go back to getting more content out so they don't have to back track for "balancing"...again.
seriously though...I've made my cry to...different topic...FDL needs to fit its advertised purpose...my "opinion" is that it doesn't....some agree...some don't...guess what...FD isn't gonna change it...why should they change this?...my point in my mind is just as valid...others agree it is...isn't it MORE valid?...nope.
Same applies here guys...for the love of the game...let FD get back to getting us more stuff...stop fixing what isn't broke but inconvenient to you.
Others have found ways to compensate for scb's in PVP...its a game not a career...no real money hitting you on payday...maybe instead of asking for change...maybe you should change...or learn to compensate better while in combat...I couldn't tell you...and am not...repeat not saying you aren't good...but from some post and in other areas...doesn't seem like the good pilots care one wit...and they still get the kills
Hopefully if this is read...people see the humor in which it is intended...and perhaps I should put a disclaimer in to ensure that any parties that are described in here are purely fictional and if they remotely ressemble any one person or point to any one persons opinion it is strictly coincidental...etc..etc just like the movie credits
peace!!peace and prosperity by any means!!
Reaper, I like your attitude.
However, two points: I'm sure Frontier has enough people to make new content and make sure old stuff is balanced
It's not an either/or situation. No judgement call by me there, but that's just bad logic.
Second, although SCB's don't bother me either way, if someone is focused on PvP it does effect them. If they don't use them, if effects them even more, because they are at a huge disadvantage against anyone who does rely on them heavily. That's the problem.
End of the day, our words here mean nothing. Someone raised the issue, and the visibility has been achieved, and that's the important part. At this point, we're just wasting time until we hear the official word on what will happen. If SCB's change, it won't be because "complainers are being caved into" or whatever, it'll be because FD decided the usage of them wasn't fitting with their goals of the item. If they don't change, same deal. FD's catering to no one but their own judgement. As it should be.
I do expect them to be changed, personally. The design imbalance, in practice, is too clear for me to ignore, were I a developer for them. My only intention in posting a combination of fun, trying to soften the blow I see coming by exlaining the reasons I see, and hoping to help people who did rely on them for PvE to come up with new tactics to remain effective.
However, two points: I'm sure Frontier has enough people to make new content and make sure old stuff is balanced
It's not an either/or situation. No judgement call by me there, but that's just bad logic.
Second, although SCB's don't bother me either way, if someone is focused on PvP it does effect them. If they don't use them, if effects them even more, because they are at a huge disadvantage against anyone who does rely on them heavily. That's the problem.
End of the day, our words here mean nothing. Someone raised the issue, and the visibility has been achieved, and that's the important part. At this point, we're just wasting time until we hear the official word on what will happen. If SCB's change, it won't be because "complainers are being caved into" or whatever, it'll be because FD decided the usage of them wasn't fitting with their goals of the item. If they don't change, same deal. FD's catering to no one but their own judgement. As it should be.
I do expect them to be changed, personally. The design imbalance, in practice, is too clear for me to ignore, were I a developer for them. My only intention in posting a combination of fun, trying to soften the blow I see coming by exlaining the reasons I see, and hoping to help people who did rely on them for PvE to come up with new tactics to remain effective.
Reaper, I like your attitude.
However, two points: I'm sure Frontier has enough people to make new content and make sure old stuff is balanced
It's not an either/or situation. No judgement call by me there, but that's just bad logic.
Second, although SCB's don't bother me either way, if someone is focused on PvP it does effect them. If they don't use them, if effects them even more, because they are at a huge disadvantage against anyone who does rely on them heavily. That's the problem.
End of the day, our words here mean nothing. Someone raised the issue, and the visibility has been achieved, and that's the important part. At this point, we're just wasting time until we hear the official word on what will happen. If SCB's change, it won't be because "complainers are being caved into" or whatever, it'll be because FD decided the usage of them wasn't fitting with their goals of the item. If they don't change, same deal. FD's catering to no one but their own judgement. As it should be.
I do expect them to be changed, personally. The design imbalance, in practice, is too clear for me to ignore, were I a developer for them. My only intention in posting a combination of fun, trying to soften the blow I see coming by exlaining the reasons I see, and hoping to help people who did rely on them for PvE to come up with new tactics to remain effective.
I see what you are saying ...but there is logic...its not the number or people...nor is it different departments...but having been in several different programs for development...I tried to keep this simple in explaination so as not really write a wall ...which I do sometimes...when developing content...in any form...everytime something changes...on the back side...the source being worked on also has to be adjusted to compensate...if for instance...we had an announcement that...oh planet fall is gonna happen( hypothetical only)...dev works the process...then...in the other room...dev team balance...says yup we are going to take care of...problem this for balance...the other team has to account for this to...it does slow a process...but heck...I'm ok with being wrong to<shrugs>
I agree with you on our debate being more passing time to than making a difference...but you did iterate my point ...PVP'er are affected...the choice of not using....not likeing other choices for using...those that play in both worlds...are not concerned...and there are those that are skilled enough that has overcome this..."issue"?...personally I'm fine as is...rather have other things focused on
As to the last portion of the statement...I think maybe instead of expecting the pve crowd to change...or develop different ...the same could be said for the other side to PVP...I've seen em used...and have used them myself for certain missions...but I assure you...if you are a better pilot in PVP...you will still win unless you ship is out classed
oh tactics, well that would be good to work on...developing a good tactic to offset scb's in a cz...well lets keep the npcs from ganging up...lets make the ships more agile so you can duck and weave thru fire...ok im being a bit on the over the top now...sigh long day...and I did not originate the original post as the champion for the PVE crowd lol...im a mixed crowd guy that like both but can deal with what we have ...and am adept enough to not want changes all the time...I want to see those edges...I don't care for an even playing field...otherwise...the game only needs one be all ship...with all the same weapons...no upgrades...no different kit...then turn people loose...I guarantee..someone will want it changed and call no fair or imbalanced...strickly just viewing this from a different side of the gem though..and only that.
hope to run into you you my friend in the verse...if we furball it...winner buys the drinks and pays the insurance bill
no loosing on purpose...its not sportsman like to cage a drink