Traders: why play in open if you're just going to combat log?

[Sandmann]

The majority of my interactions aren't competitive unless I'm the one making them that way. I'm very rarely attacked in open, most people just ignore me. Sure everyone doing their own thing isn't coop, but there also isn't any coop to do besides wing up and farm npcs.

Also with power play and cgs, players are working towards the same goal. That's all cooperative right?

So basically... no... the majority of interactions in open AREN'T coop.

Despite FD's promoting open as "primarily coop".

So noobz have every reason to expect to not be attacked very often by other players in open, which may be a valid reason why they combat log when they discover this isn't the case.

And yes I agree that there's very limited ways to play cooperatively... which is what I've been saying all through this thread.

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

So basically... no... the majority of interactions in open AREN'T coop.

Despite FD's promoting open as "primarily coop".

So noobz have every reason to expect to not be attacked very often by other players in open, which may be a valid reason why they combat log when they discover this isn't the case.

And yes I agree that there's very limited ways to play cooperatively... which is what I've been saying all through this thread.

Basically the majority of the interactions in open are, "Hey, how are you doing?" No response. "What are you up to?" No response. You'd figured if players were all about a primarily coop game, they'd at least interact a little bit. Majority of the interaction in open is no interaction at all, good or bad.

Also can you show me where it says a it says elite a primarily coop game? I can't seem to find it on the steam store page or even the elite website. If a good 20% of traders (the amount that combat log) expect it to be only, or at least mostly, a coop game it should be pretty easy to find.

 

[despiser]

He can't fight a ship with wepons because he looses so he needs to go after traders to get his jollies off killing other players.

Lol, I have to admit, sometimes I feel like unloading on one of those defenceless haulers just trying to make a living in the universe. But it passes, and I go on smuggling my way system to system quietly beefing up my Asp. I haven't been attacked in days - no pirates, no defence forces, no players... sigh. Combat isn't my highest priority, but can get pretty dull without it

 

[Sandmann]

Basically the majority of the interactions in open are, "Hey, how are you doing?" No response. "What are you up to?" No response. You'd figured if players were all about a primarily coop game, they'd at least interact a little bit. Majority of the interaction in open is no interaction at all, good or bad.

Having a player ignore you isn't an interaction. An interaction goes two ways. What're you're describing is an "action". And as I said, the majority of players who're seeking non-fatal interaction have fled open, so what do you expect? How do I know this? Why else would people flock to solo or PvE groups?

Also can you show me where it says a it says elite a primarily coop game? I can't seem to find it on the steam store page or even the elite website. If a good 20% of traders (the amount that combat log) expect it to be only, or at least mostly, a coop game it should be pretty easy to find.

Yep. In pretty much every dev diary and interview done by DBOBE. There's heaps on youtube. Same place he said PvP would be "rare and meaningful". Well he got one thing right... it's certainly getting rarer, as people desert open due in large part to the non-cooperative (ie: fatal) nature of the majority of interactions there.

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

Having a player ignore you isn't an interaction. An interaction goes two ways. What're you're describing is an "action". And as I said, the majority of players who're seeking non-fatal interaction have fled open, so what do you expect? How do I know this? Why else would people flock to solo or PvE groups?

Then what about my piracy interactions that are onesided? are they only an action too? Where the trader doesnt respond to my demands doesnt do anything other than, boost in a straight line, fsd charge, and then get blown up.

Yep. In pretty much every dev diary and interview done by DBOBE. There's heaps on youtube. Same place he said PvP would be "rare and meaningful". Well he got one thing right... it's certainly getting rarer, as people desert open due in large part to the non-cooperative (ie: fatal) nature of the majority of interactions there.

You can't honestly expect the avg person to have an intimate knowledge of the dev diaries. The avg person bases their buying decisions on gameplay videos and the marketing. If you expect to say a large portion of the player base expects it to be mostly coop it has to be front and center in the marketing material.

 

[Vow]

combat logging is never justifiable. Being robbed or murdered is part of the game piracy is encouraged look at all the gear you can buy for it. Combat logging vs a pirate is the equivalent of alt +f4 and reloading a previous save -cheating because your bad at the game.

Yep and they do it because it's either they lose 2-3 hours progress(Varies) or they can just combat log and avoid the loss. More often then not these players don't care if their bad at the game, they just see it as how much they lose to someone who just wants to pew pew them. Not saying its right but it helps to understand the other side to avoid a crap slinging fest.

 

[Arkantes]

Also can you show me where it says a it says elite a primarily coop game?

What supposedly was the plan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=s5lFiOzUDmc#t=700

"we hope in this game mostly people will play co-op rather than pvp, we're stating the rules to make griefing not very attractive, to make pve much better than pvp, anyway"

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

What supposedly was the plan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=s5lFiOzUDmc#t=700

"we hope in this game mostly people will play co-op rather than pvp, we're stating the rules to make griefing not very attractive, to make pve much better than pvp, anyway"

"we hope in this game mostly people will play co-op" not the game will be mostly coop. It's a pretty big difference.

OT but I'm still waiting for what they mentioned at 12:50, Ironman mode.

 

[Sandmann]

Then what about my piracy interactions that are onesided? are they only an action too? Where the trader doesnt respond to my demands doesnt do anything other than, boost in a straight line, fsd charge, and then get blown up.

If he's responding to you then it's an interaction. If you're unable to affect his behaviour in response to yours then it's an action.

You can't honestly expect the avg person to have an intimate knowledge of the dev diaries. The avg person bases their buying decisions on gameplay videos and the marketing. If you expect to say a large portion of the player base expects it to be mostly coop it has to be front and center in the marketing material.

I don't expect the average person to have all that much knowledge about a great many things, and I'm rarely disappointed. None-the-less... caveat emptor. I took an interest in the game, I researched it, and based on what I read/saw I decided to buy it. I'd hope that others do the same, and if they don't that's their problem. The advertising equally said nothing about the majority of piracy being PvE because there were almost no traders in open anymore and those that were almost always combat logged, but there you have it. Most pirates assumed it would be PvP piracy because for some reason they thought that FD had found an eternal wellspring of players who enjoyed being victims. *shrug*

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"we hope in this game mostly people will play co-op" not the game is mostly coop. It's a pretty big difference.

That's right. They stated an intention, they don't force you to go along with it.

 

[Arkantes]

"we hope in this game mostly people will play co-op" not the game is mostly coop. It's a pretty big difference.

Sure, we're kind of lacking the tools and content for proper co-op, but still, that was the plan one year ago, and that's how it was sold to us back then.

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

I don't expect the average person to have all that much knowledge about a great many things, and I'm rarely disappointed. None-the-less... caveat emptor. I took an interest in the game, I researched it, and based on what I read/saw I decided to buy it. I'd hope that others do the same, and if they don't that's their problem. The advertising equally said nothing about the majority of piracy being PvE because there were almost no traders in open anymore and those that were almost always combat logged, but there you have it. Most pirates assumed it would be PvP piracy because for some reason they thought that FD had found an eternal wellspring of players who enjoyed being victims. *shrug*

Wait, you're throwing out caveat emptor saying that people should know the devs said it should be mostly pve? I'll toss the ball right back and say the same players should know to expect negative interaction in open. If they did the research to find out what the game should be, they should do the research to find out how the game actually is.

 

[Sandmann]

Sure, we're kind of lacking the tools and content for proper co-op, but still, that was the plan one year ago, and that's how it was sold to us back then.

It'd be interesting to pose the question to DBOBE in a future Q&A, if he still saw the game as "primarily coop" and PvP as "rare and meaningful", since it's blatantly not that. He'd avoid the question, sure... if he answered it at all... but it'd be fun watching him squirm.

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Wait, you're throwing out caveat emptor saying that people should know the devs said it should be mostly pve? I'll toss the ball right back and say the same players should know to expect negative interaction in open. If they did the research to find out what the game should be, they should do the research to find out how the game actually is.

If that's the case then you should have known that piracy was mostly PvE, shouldn't you?

 

[Sandmann]

Seriously yes, it makes sense to research a game you want to spend significant coin and time on to see if it's going to meet your expectations. You came in wanting PvP piracy... didn't happen because FD didn't cater to it by allowing all your victims to run off to solo/group or to combat log. If you'd researched (caveat emptor) and actually read that the devs intended it to be a mostly coop game you could have reasoned that although piracy was part of it, it would be piracy against (or by) npc's - even BEFORE you found out about other play modes. If you'd read (caveat emptor) player reports talking about play modes that would have been confirmed to you. However you read "MMO" and "piracy" and assumed that meant "frontier are gonna supply me willing victims for my piracy".

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

If that's the case then you should have known that piracy was mostly PvE, shouldn't you?

Seriously yes, it makes sense to research a game you want to spend significant coin and time on to see if it's going to meet your expectations. You came in wanting PvP piracy... didn't happen because FD didn't cater to it by allowing all your victims to run off to solo/group or to combat log. If you'd researched (caveat emptor) and actually read that the devs intended it to be a mostly coop game you could have reasoned that although piracy was part of it, it would be piracy against (or by) npc's - even BEFORE you found out about other play modes. If you'd read player reports talking about play modes that would have been confirmed to you. However you read "MMO" and "piracy" and assumed that meant "frontier are gonna supply me willing victims for my piracy".

When i bought the game (a week before beta 1.3 I think) piracy wasn't even a thing yet, the limpets and fsd indictor were still a month or 2 away. I bought the game for what it was ,a space combat sim. I did't even think to try piracy for a long time. I happened across a few gameplay videos and bought into the beta the next day.

Tbh I bought the game to only play single player. Only after that got axed did I start playing the multiplayer. If pirating npcs wasn't so dreadful i'd probably stick to do that.... most of the time anyhow.

 

[Sandmann]

When i bought the game (a week before beta 1.3 I think) piracy wasn't even a thing yet. I bought the game for what it was ,a space combat sim. I happened across a few gameplay videos and bought into the beta the next day. Tbh I bought the game to only play single player. Only after that got axed did I start playing the multiplayer. If pirating npcs wasn't so dreadful i'd probably stick to do that.... most of the time anyhow.

Uhh... no... piracy's been "a thing" since alpha.

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

Uhh... no... piracy's been "a thing" since alpha.

How if Interdictors and hatch breaker limpets didnt get added until late beta? I don't think you even could shoot out the hatch back then either.

 

[Sandmann]

How if Interdictors and hatch breaker limpets didnt get added until late beta?

Bullying tactics mostly, shooting the crap out of pilots, and "waggling wings", flashing lights, and opening/closing cargo hatch to communicate. It was all pretty primitive. There was a lot of blockading of stations too, attacking inside stations, etc. Lots of people using piracy as an excuse for PKing, huge raging threads about it in the forums, etc. You need to remember it was a pretty close community and pretty much everyone in the game was a forum user, back in "the bubble" and later "the pill". Hatch breakers and limpets actually came about as a direct result of the complaints, both from the pirates who needed better tools, and the victims who needed less fatal methods of piracy.

As for interdiction, no only NPC's could do that. All piracy was done by hanging around at nav beacons or station entrances. Remember there were only a handful of stations so that was quite feasible.

Don't forget too that you dropped out of SC at 30km from the station then rather than the 20km we have now, so pirates had 50% more distance to shoot you out over.

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

Bullying tactics mostly, shooting the crap out of pilots, and "waggling wings", flashing lights, and opening/closing cargo hatch to communicate. It was all pretty primitive. There was a lot of blockading of stations too, attacking inside stations, etc. Lots of people using piracy as an excuse for PKing, huge raging threads about it in the forums, etc. You need to remember it was a pretty close community and pretty much everyone in the game was a forum user, back in "the bubble" and later "the pill".

I wasn't there back then, like i said, i didnt even play in open until after offline was canceled. which was about a month before release iirc.

 

[Sandmann]

I wasn't there back then, like i said, i didnt even play in open until after offline was canceled. which was about a month before release iirc.

It was actually fun times... everyone was a backer so we were all dedicated to the game and you didn't have all the casual carnage that haunts open now. We were all pretty much in open at that time coz we were mostly playing the game for the game's sake, not to get in another player's face. We actually prophesied the rush to solo/groups within a few months of release due to the lack of controls/security and we've been shown to be correct.

 

[Silverwind]

As a trader, I mostly play in solo. But, I have recently ventured into open play and rarely see too many other players if any in a given evening. I can imagine they are at that point in the game where if they get smoked on the leg they are on, they will lose it all, as this can happen between buys when traders miscalculate that shiny new ship, plus the cost of loading it down and insurance. I have been there many a time, even when given advice to simply hold off and get more capital. But, I am in agreement here I guess, if you play in open, play in open and be prepared to deal with all types of players, both good and bad. Otherwise, simply play in solo. Combat logging is rather childish, when done to avoid a bloody nose. If you can't handle getting laid out every so often, you shouldn't have selected open mode.