Reddit info is not very promising can FDEV shed light on it

The only hogwash I see seems to be coming form someone claiming NMS is not giving us any bull despite never having played it and only seeing very carefully choreographed dev controlled footage. Do you know how complex the flight model is compared to ED? Do you know how much real science is involved in their PG compared to ED? Do you even know if atmospheric effects are modeled and affect the flight model?

It is so much easier to make an unreleased product look great than something that is already available for people to play.

Their not giving us any bull in that when you buy the game it's one time and one price and you will get it all and not have to buy the game 2 or 3 or 4 times....

Also you say unreleased product as if they only have a tech demo...lol Have you seen some of the latest footage...looks pretty dang good maybe barring the psychedelic colors.
 
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Indeed...

One thing I find funny is that peeps say SC... expensive ship...scam...vaporware yadayada yet ALL the ships being sold in SC you will be able to acquire in game via gameplay regardless whether you backed SC or not etc yet it gets lots of flak but here we now have in ED a ship which is suppose to be exclusive to peeps that buy season one now and if you dont you will never ever be able to get it in game via gameplay...hmmmm

Allow me to point out some logic fails:
1. You can bet your granny that those $400,-- ships will cost more than a few weeks' grinding worth of credits in-game (else they'd get a lot of upset early backers, no?). Be prepared to grind long time before you can afford a bigger ship in-game. Like, long cat is loooong time. Like, EVE Online let's-save-up-for-a-Titan long time.
2. You can contemplate that fact as some superior ship hands your ass to you, knowing that the other player's strategic advantage was due purely to the fact that they could afford to put more money down on that game. Pay to win, indeed.

The Cobra MK IV may be exclusive, but there are plenty of ships in the ED universe accessible to all players that can match or best it.

I wouldn't be surprised if airless landing was mostly already functional all this time and they are presently working on other stuff, peeps keep saying it's a huge huge undertaking I have to politely say hogwash.....this is why NSM is getting more love as they are not giving us any bull about this kind of thing.

NMS is not giving you anything. I see the same demos and video clips over and over. And yeah, I would expect Frontier to be at least six months ahead in development of the current release. I'd be a bit worried if they were still working on the basics of planetary landings now, and had laid no ground work for atmospheric landings with biospheres and cities, and had not even thought about walking around ships and stations (given that they'd need to incorporate the maps for that in current models of ships and stations). This might, like, be the reason why they seem to make such slow progress on tweaking existing parts of the game: everything they do there has to mesh with the code they are writing and planning for the future.

- - - Updated - - -

Their not giving us any bull in that when you buy the game it's one time and one price and you will get it all and not have to buy the game 2 or 3 or 4 times....

We will yet have to see what they will charge and what we will get for it. NMS, like SC is just a game that hasn't had a chance to disappoint us yet.
 
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It is going to take a long time to get there. At least they are giving us what they have so far.

Wut? They're selling it.
Oh wait, actually rigth now they are selling something they don't totally figured out yet (read the latest dev update), that's genius!
 
Their not giving us any bull in that when you buy the game it's one time and one price and you will get it all and not have to buy the game 2 or 3 or 4 times....

Also you say unreleased product as if they only have a tech demo...lol Have you seen some of the latest footage...looks pretty dang good maybe barring the psychedelic colors.

Yes I have seen it and I find it a bit disappointing TBH. Collecting minerals by zapping pillars with a blaster? every planet in the galaxy has a band of armed robot sentinels and stations to land on? Don't get me started on the colours!
 
Wut? They're selling it.
Oh wait, actually rigth now they are selling something they don't totally figured out yet (read the latest dev update), that's genius!

You know what I mean. You're just trying to be divisive.

Also, you don't know what they have figured out and haven't. Procedurally generating big planets and cities is not a simple task. Lets wait and see before you tell us what FD is doing.
 
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Allow me to point out some logic fails:
1. You can bet your granny that those $400,-- ships will cost more than a few weeks' grinding worth of credits in-game (else they'd get a lot of upset early backers, no?). Be prepared to grind long time before you can afford a bigger ship in-game. Like, long cat is loooong time.

Lol, no, SC's economy has already been detailed, it's broken by design. In a couple months the inflation will start to spiral out of control and then ship costs won't matter (which btw aren't that high, many of those have been detailed too). Cue the screaming hoards of backers wanting refunds.
 
I've always assumed that the planetary landing with atmosphere was coming later because they would have life on them rather than the flight model although that would be another factor.

If they are adding flora and fauna it needs to be done well and that is a hell of a lot of work.

No way, this is hard work:) thank you for understanding that. I saw a post earlier today that said all Frontier had to do was take their procedural engine and poof planets we can land on.

now if we could just get everyone to understand the complexity of a simple Camera object using DirectX let alone land on planets and have vegetation and life roaming around and keeping it all fast and smooth so people don't complain its slow and crappy. lol

I didn't write this but it works. :)


http://www.gamedev.net/page/resources/_/technical/directx-and-xna/directx-11-c-game-camera-r2978

//GCamera.h
#pragma once
#include "GUtility.h"

namespace Game
{
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
// Stores View and Projection matrices used by shaders
// to translate 3D world into 2D screen surface
// Camera can be moved and rotated. Also, user can change
// camera's target and position
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
class GCamera
{
public:
// Constructs default camera looking at 0,0,0
// placed at 0,0,-1 with up vector 0,1,0 (note that mUp is NOT a vector - it's vector's end)
GCamera(void);
// Create camera, based on another one
GCamera(const GCamera& camera);
// Copy all camera's parameters
GCamera& operator=(const GCamera& camera);
~GCamera(void) {}

private:
// Initialize camera's View matrix from mPosition, mTarget and mUp coordinates
void initViewMatrix();

public:
// Initialize camera's perspective Projection matrix
void InitProjMatrix(const float angle, const float client_width, const float client_height,
const float nearest, const float farthest);
// Initialize camera's orthogonal projection
void InitOrthoMatrix(const float client_width, const float client_height,
const float near_plane, const float far_plane);

// Resize matrices when window size changes
void OnResize(uint32_t new_width, uint32_t new_height);

///////////////////////////////////////////////
/*** View matrix transformation interfaces ***/
///////////////////////////////////////////////

// Move camera
void Move(XMFLOAT3 direction);
// Rotate camera around `axis` by `degrees`. Camera's position is a
// pivot point of rotation, so it doesn't change
void Rotate(XMFLOAT3 axis, float degrees);
// Set camera position coordinates
void Position(XMFLOAT3& new_position);
// Get camera position coordinates
const XMFLOAT3& Position() const { return mPosition; }
// Change camera target position
void Target(XMFLOAT3 new_target);
// Get camera's target position coordinates
const XMFLOAT3& Target() const { return mTarget; }
// Get camera's up vector
const XMFLOAT3 Up() { return GMathVF(GMathFV(mUp) - GMathFV(mPosition)); }
// Get camera's look at target vector
const XMFLOAT3 LookAtTarget() { return GMathVF(GMathFV(mTarget) - GMathFV(mPosition)); }
// Returns transposed camera's View matrix
const XMFLOAT4X4 View() { return GMathMF(XMMatrixTranspose(GMathFM(mView))); }

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////
/*** Projection matrix transformation interfaces ***/
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////

// Set view frustum's angle
void Angle(float angle);
// Get view frustum's angle
const float& Angle() const { return mAngle; }

// Set nearest culling plane distance from view frustum's projection plane
void NearestPlane(float nearest);
// Set farthest culling plane distance from view frustum's projection plane
void FarthestPlane(float farthest);

// Returns transposed camera's Projection matrix
const XMFLOAT4X4 Proj() { return GMathMF(XMMatrixTranspose(GMathFM(mProj))); }
// Returns transposed orthogonal camera matrix
const XMFLOAT4X4 Ortho() { return GMathMF(XMMatrixTranspose(GMathFM(mOrtho))); }

private:
/*** Camera parameters ***/
XMFLOAT3 mPosition; // Camera's coordinates
XMFLOAT3 mTarget; // View target's coordinates
XMFLOAT3 mUp; // Camera's up vector end coordinates

/*** Projection parameters ***/
float mAngle; // Angle of view frustum
float mClientWidth; // Window's width
float mClientHeight; // Window's height
float mNearest; // Nearest view frustum plane
float mFarthest; // Farthest view frustum plane

XMFLOAT4X4 mView; // View matrix
XMFLOAT4X4 mProj; // Projection matrix
XMFLOAT4X4 mOrtho; // Ortho matrix for drawing without tranformation
};

} // namespace Game
//GCamera.cpp
#include "GCamera.h"

namespace Game
{

GCamera::GCamera(void)
{
mPosition = XMFLOAT3(0.0f, 0.0f, -1.0f);
mTarget = XMFLOAT3(0.0f, 0.0f, 0.0f);
mUp = GMathVF(GMathFV(mPosition) + GMathFV(XMFLOAT3(0, 1, 0)));
this->initViewMatrix();

mAngle = 0.0f;
mClientWidth = 0.0f;
mClientHeight = 0.0f;
mNearest = 0.0f;
mFarthest = 0.0f;

XMStoreFloat4x4(&mView, XMMatrixIdentity());
XMStoreFloat4x4(&mProj, XMMatrixIdentity());
XMStoreFloat4x4(&mOrtho, XMMatrixIdentity());
}

GCamera::GCamera(const GCamera& camera)
{
*this = camera;
}

GCamera& GCamera::eek:perator=(const GCamera& camera)
{
mPosition = camera.mPosition;
mTarget = camera.mTarget;
mUp = camera.mUp;

mAngle = camera.mAngle;
mClientWidth = camera.mClientWidth;
mClientHeight = camera.mClientHeight;
mNearest = camera.mNearest;
mFarthest = camera.mFarthest;

mView = camera.mView;
mProj = camera.mProj;
mOrtho = camera.mOrtho;
return *this;
}

void GCamera::initViewMatrix()
{
XMStoreFloat4x4(&mView, XMMatrixLookAtLH(XMLoadFloat3(&mPosition), XMLoadFloat3(&mTarget),
XMLoadFloat3(&this->Up())));
}

void GCamera::InitProjMatrix(const float angle, const float client_width, const float client_height,
const float near_plane, const float far_plane)
{
mAngle = angle;
mClientWidth = client_width;
mClientHeight = client_height;
mNearest = near_plane;
mFarthest = far_plane;
XMStoreFloat4x4(&mProj, XMMatrixPerspectiveFovLH(angle, client_width/client_height,
near_plane, far_plane));
}

void GCamera::Move(XMFLOAT3 direction)
{
mPosition = GMathVF(XMVector3Transform(GMathFV(mPosition),
XMMatrixTranslation(direction.x, direction.y, direction.z)));
mTarget = GMathVF(XMVector3Transform(GMathFV(mTarget),
XMMatrixTranslation(direction.x, direction.y, direction.z)));
mUp = GMathVF(XMVector3Transform(GMathFV(mUp),
XMMatrixTranslation(direction.x, direction.y, direction.z)));

this->initViewMatrix();
}

void GCamera::Rotate(XMFLOAT3 axis, float degrees)
{
if (XMVector3Equal(GMathFV(axis), XMVectorZero()) ||
degrees == 0.0f)
return;

// rotate vectors
XMFLOAT3 look_at_target = GMathVF(GMathFV(mTarget) - GMathFV(mPosition));
XMFLOAT3 look_at_up = GMathVF(GMathFV(mUp) - GMathFV(mPosition));
look_at_target = GMathVF(XMVector3Transform(GMathFV(look_at_target),
XMMatrixRotationAxis(GMathFV(axis), XMConvertToRadians(degrees))));
look_at_up = GMathVF(XMVector3Transform(GMathFV(look_at_up),
XMMatrixRotationAxis(GMathFV(axis), XMConvertToRadians(degrees))));

// restore vectors's end points mTarget and mUp from new rotated vectors
mTarget = GMathVF(GMathFV(mPosition) + GMathFV(look_at_target));
mUp = GMathVF(GMathFV(mPosition) + GMathFV(look_at_up));

this->initViewMatrix();
}

void GCamera::Target(XMFLOAT3 new_target)
{
if (XMVector3Equal(GMathFV(new_target), GMathFV(mPosition)) ||
XMVector3Equal(GMathFV(new_target), GMathFV(mTarget)))
return;

XMFLOAT3 old_look_at_target = GMathVF(GMathFV(mTarget) - GMathFV(mPosition));
XMFLOAT3 new_look_at_target = GMathVF(GMathFV(new_target) - GMathFV(mPosition));
float angle = XMConvertToDegrees(XMVectorGetX(
XMVector3AngleBetweenNormals(XMVector3Normalize(GMathFV(old_look_at_target)),
XMVector3Normalize(GMathFV(new_look_at_target)))));
if (angle != 0.0f && angle != 360.0f && angle != 180.0f)
{
XMVECTOR axis = XMVector3Cross(GMathFV(old_look_at_target), GMathFV(new_look_at_target));
Rotate(GMathVF(axis), angle);
}
mTarget = new_target;
this->initViewMatrix();
}

// Set camera position
void GCamera::position(XMFLOAT3& new_position)
{
XMFLOAT3 move_vector = GMathVF(GMathFV(new_position) - GMathFV(mPosition));
XMFLOAT3 target = mTarget;
this->Move(move_vector);
this->Target(target);
}

void GCamera::Angle(float angle)
{
mAngle = angle;
InitProjMatrix(mAngle, mClientWidth, mClientHeight, mNearest, mFarthest);
}

void GCamera::NearestPlane(float nearest)
{
mNearest = nearest;
OnResize(mClientWidth, mClientHeight);
}

void GCamera::FarthestPlane(float farthest)
{
mFarthest = farthest;
OnResize(mClientWidth, mClientHeight);
}

void GCamera::InitOrthoMatrix(const float clientWidth, const float clientHeight,
const float nearZ, const float fartherZ)
{
XMStoreFloat4x4(&mOrtho, XMMatrixOrthographicLH(clientWidth, clientHeight, 0.0f, fartherZ));
}

void GCamera::OnResize(uint32_t new_width, uint32_t new_height)
{
mClientWidth = new_width;
mClientHeight = new_height;
InitProjMatrix(mAngle, static_cast<float>(new_width), static_cast<float>(new_height), mNearest, mFarthest);
InitOrthoMatrix(static_cast<float>(new_width), static_cast<float>(new_height), 0.0f, mFarthest);
 
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Allow me to point out some logic fails:
1. You can bet your granny that those $400,-- ships will cost more than a few weeks' grinding worth of credits in-game (else they'd get a lot of upset early backers, no?). Be prepared to grind long time before you can afford a bigger ship in-game.
2. You can contemplate that fact as some superior ship hands your ass to you, knowing that the other player's strategic advantage was due purely to the fact that they could afford to put more money down on that game. Pay to win, indeed.

The Cobra MK IV may be exclusive, but there are plenty of ships in the ED universe accessible to all players that can match or best it.



NMS is not giving you anything. I see the same demos and video clips over and over. And yeah, I would expect Frontier to some months ahead in development of the current release. I'd be a bit worried if they were still working on the basics of planetary landings now, and had laid no ground work for atmospheric landings with biospheres and cities, and had not even thought about walking around ships and stations (given that they'd need to incorporate the maps for that in current models of ships and stations). This might, like, be the reason why they seem to make such slow progress on tweaking existing parts of the game: everything they do there has to mesh with the code they are writing and planning for the future.

- - - Updated - - -



We will yet have to see what they will charge and what we will get for it. NMS, like SC is just a game that hasn't had a chance to disappoint us yet.

Allow me to correct you as there is no logic fail, only "I disagree and feel hurt that you dislike my favorite game logic" on your part. SC any ship you buy can be acquired in game and after launch these ships will no longer be purchasable for RLM, some maybe be harder to acquire and that is a GOOD THING! but I digress..the main point is no exclusive ship due to RLM which FD has just decided to do.. My logic is sound.

As for NMS perhaps you failed to see my clarification further down when it releases there will be no having to buy the game two three or four times.

I do agree though that NMS still has time to pull a fast on us and cause disappointment but then that really besides the point I was making...we will just have to wait and see.
 
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Also, you don't know what they have figured out and haven't. Procedurally generating big planets and cities is not a simple task. Lets wait and see before you tell us what FD is doing.
They told us so themselves :
As with our previous major updates, the Elite Dangerous: Horizons season of content is more than just the headline features. We will also continue to expand and build upon what is already in game. This will include missions, player roles and events in the galaxy, and many other features we have not yet discussed.
So yes, they are selling an unfinished and undefined product at a fixed price.
 
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So yes, they are selling an unfinished and undefined product at a fixed price.

Heh, I'll take the blame for them doing that! :D I've been begging them to stop telling us what they're planning/doing and to start putting stuff into the galaxy for us to discover, without telling us about it.

I want us to find things in space through exploration and discovery rather than from reading press releases!

So, yeah, my bad, it's a shame it interferes with making a good sales pitch, but I'm unrepentantly going to keep on asking for some features to be kept secret :p :)
 
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They told us so themselves :

So yes, they are selling an unfinished and undefined product at a fixed price.

Yes, They also have said this was a 10 year project that would be in constant development from the beginning. If you didn't know that going in....you didn't read.

go look at the DDF and you will find what they want to do.

what you won't find is when or what order they are going to deliver it until they are ready to announce it.
 
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I don't know, I'm not following CIG. Are we supposed to talk about ED or SC here?

I'm pointing out that with ground breaking games, all developers are working it out as they go along. Frontier is with ED. CIG is with SC. And Hello Games is with NMS (which is by no means a finished product yet). It's how gaming history is made.

And "features we have not yet discussed" does not mean "amongst ourselves" but "with you". ;)
 
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They told us so themselves :

So yes, they are selling an unfinished and undefined product at a fixed price.
Nothing about that quote says they dont' know what they are building and how...only that they haven't built it yet.

Heck, if that isn't enough for someone to buy...thats fine...I kind of a agree that it is a thin feature list to get people to spend that kind of money...but that is up to the buyer...of which, you don't have to be one.
 
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Nothing about that quote says they dont' know what they are building and how...only that they haven't built it yet.

Ah so you admit it's not built yet thus "unfinished" and you also admit they haven't told us all of what season two entails so again "undefined"... I don't see why your arguing this point?
 
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