Reddit info is not very promising can FDEV shed light on it

[Ekar]

It is because you want expansions just for landings only? I don't think so. There's so much to be done to make landings actually interesting to play. That will cost a lot of money and time. There will be other game features related to PL coming for each season.

If you think they are doing just that - ship lands and you wonder around in awe - then it won't make for an interesting game, would it. They need to have some activities down there

It's a fair enough point. Even though I thought PL would be it's own self contained expansion before the seasons announcement, it makes much more sense to develop everything in tandem in steps at a time. Technical approaches to missions developed in Horizons can filter back and enhance things happening in the main game, for eg. Might as well allow people access to all threads of development via seasons, because it could easily get out of hand working out how and where to restrict access to various features.

 

[Iskariot]

here

The thing I find worrying is the 'Season 2' will only be airless rocks and other 'planet atmospheres' will be in a future season so you would have to pay 'per atmosphere' which is a crock tbh.

Can FDEV comment on these apparent facts maybe alay them some what as I wouldnt pay for DLC on a per 'planet' basis what I would pay for is planet landings on a compete basis not a peacemeal approach on a rocks then whatevers next sort of approach. The whole planetary landings thing has stirred up a hornets nest of resentment and people feeling ripped off and if FDEV are not careful it will cause a backlash against ED and FDEV in general. Now is the time for Micheal Brookes to actually make an announcement and tell us what the hell their plans on these seasons are going to be to give the people who actually pay his wages some insight and relief.

&

Airless planets with Horizons, everything else sometime 2017-2018, because money.

No NOT because money!

BECAUSE developing the Procedural Generation of planets with atmosphere, weather effects, volcanic activity, flora and fauna etc. etc. is in a totally different league compared to what 'Horizons' will give us.
When that is released it truly deserves to be a separate expansion, because of the sheer amount of work that has to be poured into it.
You people do not seem to understand what FD is creating here.
It is of monumental proportions.
Horizons in itself will get enough content to be worthy of the price. You can be sure of that.
And the atmospheric planets expansion might be the biggest, most labour intensive expansion of the entire ten year project.
FD is not just creating a single-minded shooter, they are creating a galaxy.
The problem is people do not seem to get the epic proportions of this unique project and they want it all for 39.95.
Well, that just is not possible.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Airless planets with Horizons, everything else sometime 2017-2018, because money.

But horizons will contain other additions, for example, crafting. Crafting has been a big thing on these forums, lots of people asking for it (personally not something i'm super interested in, but hey, can't please all the people all of the time).

Technically, perhaps they could have made Horizons 100% about planetary landings... but then people who were not interested in this aspect would have felt left out (can't please all the people all of the time).

They decided what they could manage in 1 year of development and what they wanted to add that would provide new stuff for as many players as possible (can't please all the people all of the time).

So in a way you are right, because money... but not necessarily with the negative connotations you mention. The more people playing because an expansion includes something for them, the better. And since i'm personally playing this game for the long haul, i can wait a year or two for the next part of the planetary landings stuff, and in the meantime, have fun with the airless rocky worlds.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

But horizons will contain other additions, for example, crafting. Crafting has been a big thing on these forums, lots of people asking for it (personally not something i'm super interested in, but hey, can't please all the people all of the time).

Technically, perhaps they could have made Horizons 100% about planetary landings... but then people who were not interested in this aspect would have felt left out (can't please all the people all of the time).

They decided what they could manage in 1 year of development and what they wanted to add that would provide new stuff for as many players as possible (can't please all the people all of the time).

So in a way you are right, because money... but not necessarily with the negative connotations you mention. The more people playing because an expansion includes something for them, the better. And since i'm personally playing this game for the long haul, i can wait a year or two for the next part of the planetary landings stuff, and in the meantime, have fun with the airless rocky worlds.

I think problem with having multiple expansions selling one feature that is nightmare to manage. When you buy expansion for CivV for example, you don't get pick and choose features. You get whole package.

If FD plans to sell expansions like rolling all previous ones and game into 60 USD package with new one, then people waiting for example for Earth like landings have little to complain - they just wait for right upgrade and then buy it.

 

[halo jones 101]

Originally Posted by EdzUp
here

The thing I find worrying is the 'Season 2' will only be airless rocks and other 'planet atmospheres' will be in a future season so you would have to pay 'per atmosphere' which is a crock tbh.

Can FDEV comment on these apparent facts maybe alay them some what as I wouldnt pay for DLC on a per 'planet' basis what I would pay for is planet landings on a compete basis not a peacemeal approach on a rocks then whatevers next sort of approach. The whole planetary landings thing has stirred up a hornets nest of resentment and people feeling ripped off and if FDEV are not careful it will cause a backlash against ED and FDEV in general. Now is the time for Micheal Brookes to actually make an announcement and tell us what the hell their plans on these seasons are going to be to give the people who actually pay his wages some insight and relief.

&

Originally Posted by Windscreen Smudge
Airless planets with Horizons, everything else sometime 2017-2018, because money.

No NOT because money!

BECAUSE developing the Procedural Generation of planets with atmosphere, weather effects, volcanic activity, flora and fauna etc. etc. is in a totally different league compared to what 'Horizons' will give us.
When that is released it truly deserves to be a separate expansion, because of the sheer amount of work that has to be poured into it.
You people do not seem to understand what FD is creating here.
It is of monumental proportions.
Horizons in itself will get enough content to be worthy of the price. You can be sure of that.
And the atmospheric planets expansion might be the biggest, most labour intensive expansion of the entire project.

+1 for pointing out realities there does seem to be a small section of people in this and other games that dont understand development costs, let alone maintaining a business that can sustain both development and providing a service. Frontier are not without some legitimate criticism, about the core game, some balance issues and how they have dealt with handling PR, however they are trying to up there game despite and not helped by the toxicity of some parts of the community.

Yes we all have differing expectation of what we think is important and what we want in the game, but you cannot develop a game or run a company by committee.

At no time has anyone been forced to buy into the game and its development model. I can understand that some people are very emotionally invested in this game particularly the Kickstarters, but as with many things in life, value for money is subjective.

 

[AnnuverScotinExile]

Horizons in itself will get enough content to be worthy of the price. You can be sure of that.

Actually, no, I can't.

The post release stuff this year is certainly not worth that price to me, though I accept that to many it is. Different people want different things out of this game, and are being asked to buy a pig in a poke. It may be that Horizons will have enough to satisfy me (I have a lifetime pass from the kickstarter days, so it is sort of moot, really). But you cannot say that here and now. Give it 9 months and I might agree with you. By Christmas 2016 I will certainly have a answer. But you cannot say in advance that the pig will be good when it is still in the poke.

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If FD plans to sell expansions like rolling all previous ones and game into 60 USD package with new one, then people waiting for example for Earth like landings have little to complain - they just wait for right upgrade and then buy it.

I actually have no real problem with the model. The problem I have is them not telling us they were going to do annual subscription packages for updates, and letting us all assume that you could buy function specific expansions.

 

[Iskariot]

Actually, no, I can't.
The post release stuff this year is certainly not worth that price to me, though I accept that to many it is.

It has been said many, many, many times. It has been said from the start in several dev videos and interviews and articles.
ED is a project under development. It is a ten year project.

The first Season, as they call it now, or the basic game if you will, is not done!
It is not done after the release of 'Horizons' either.
The development of the basic game continues. It might continue for years to come.

I agree that there needs to be more content to the basic game.
We need better missions for example. We also need a greater variety of assets like station types, npc ships etc.

But we need to understand that a dev of FD's size can only do so much in a given time period.
They are not the size of UBI, EA or Rockstar and nevertheless they produce high quality content and want to continue to do so.
This takes time. And it takes patience. Our patience.
We are witnessing the development of the most unique and the largest space sim project ever!


I really do not get all the negative impatience.
It seems like many people think that FD should be able to finish the entire 10 year project within 9 months after first release.

I am not saying that FD is perfect. For example I would have liked to see a much higher variety in space assets/structures by now.
I feel the universe urgently needs to be brought to live with more pure npc ships, station types/interiors, true imperial stations, military battle stations, industrial complexes, prison complexes etc. etc.
I think this should be a priority, because it directly influences how we perceive the Elite universe.
But in the end I will have let FD develop this game the way they think it is best.
I can only eagerly await what is coming.
Having a negative attitude about it is so pointless.

 

[Ralph Vargr]

The only valid point is that you are buying blind.

And that is more than enough reason to ***** and moan.

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It has been said many, many, many times. It has been said from the start in several dev videos and interviews and articles.
ED is a project under development. It is a ten year project.

And, with my age and infirmities, I might not be around to collect. Or, Frontier might be gone.

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I actually have no real problem with the model. The problem I have is them not telling us they were going to do annual subscription packages for updates, and letting us all assume that you could buy function specific expansions.

And, there you have it.

 

[Haleks]

I agree that there needs to be more content to the basic game.
We need better missions for example. We also need a greater variety of assets like station types, npc ships etc.

But we need to understand that a dev of FD's size can only do so much in a given time period.

Nobody imposes those deadlines to FD : I would happily wait for a truly solid core game (or season 1) than having rushed expansions (or season of expansions, whatever) each year...
EDIT : it's like how they pulled Sarah Jane Avory off the AI update to have her working on the ground AI for Horizons... Great move, yeah.

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I really do not get all the negative impatience.

Where did you get that? How is this about impatience?
For me it's about being in the dark while I'm encouraged to buy season 2 right away if I want to enjoy that cheap discount; it's about lack of transparency.

 

[Iskariot]

And, with my age and infirmities, I might not be around to collect. Or, Frontier might be gone.

Lol, I'm in the same boat. I'm not sure I'll be still around in a few years either.
But there's nothing FD can do about that.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Nobody imposes those deadlines to FD : I would happily wait for a truly solid core game (or season 1) than having rushed expansions each year...

You don't but money does - to continue work on ED, both on expansions and core features, they need money. ED is still selling, surprisingly (FD has indicated they didn't expect such runaway success), but flow has to be ensured. Also expansions let ED stay revelant.

Now, you can argue that better core game would sell more copies, and I wouldn't agree, however without much marketing, to make huge expansions, they sooner they start working on them, the better.

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[Haleks]

You don't but money does - to continue work on ED, both on expansions and core features, they need money. ED is still selling, surprisingly (FD has indicated they didn't expect such runaway success), but flow has to be ensured. Also expansions let ED stay revelant.

Now, you can argue that better core game would sell more copies, and I wouldn't agree, however without much marketing, to make huge expansions, they sooner they start working on them, the better.

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Yeah, I get it - I'm not really expecting devs to give priority to ironing the game out instead of pushing new shiny content, but still :

For me it's about being in the dark while I'm encouraged to buy season 2 right away if I want to enjoy that cheap discount; it's about lack of transparency.

(Wich has been discussed plenty in the previous comments.)

 

[CMDR Crustatious Cornelius Pig]

Very good. I'm not buying.

How about a ten year break of not buying? The tablet version should be out then, and I'll be able to play in the nursing home.

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And, that is the essence of it. A year ago, they figured out that the buy once revenue model was not going to work.

they always held there would be paid expansions. Wow whine me a river

 

[EdzUp]

So another thread made about not wanting to pay 40 quid a year for access to expanded content. Great.

The only valid point is that you are buying blind. Perhaps if we were given a summary teaser for thebyear it might help.

Exactly if we actually knew what this season has in store we all might feel better about backing it, rather than enter our funds into yet another PP debacle that nobody really was into.

I can see both sides of it:

On the one hand I'm sure atmospherics is a massive undertaking. I'd rather they took longer over it and got it right.

£40 isn't a lot for a game you enjoy if you view it in terms of a subscription model. I personally would hate a sub-based system and it is 'exciting' being part of a living, continually developing game. Cobra Mk. IV only for those who bought the game in the first year is IMO at least some way of mitigating against the 'cheap for new customers, expensive for current' thing. So, £40 isn't at all bad compared to a sub and you don't have to pay it to keep playing your current game as you would with a sub (though to be fair the game was never billed as a subscription title and it's not as though FD could legitimately pull the plug in that regard and start demanding a sub...).


On the other hand...


£40 is a full price game. Full price game. Let's not forget that. An entire game is sold for this amount and you can expect the same for next year's season and so forth. Fallout 4 and the Witcher 3 are in a similar price bracket and have both seen many years of development. IMO Wings, Power Play and CQC do not equate the value of a full title. If you view Horizons purely as an 'expansion,' it's expensive.

Not only that, but it's not even ready/finished as a normal 'expansion' or 'full title' would be; your £40 only entitles you to (probably) a bare bones launch around December with the rest of the year for them to work on the content, whilst you pay full price up front.

FD want you to go in blind: Not prepared to talk about anything beyond planetary landings, yet very keen to stress that landings are only one part of what you're buying.

Limited time discount (why?) and high relative price for existing customers, with very little confirmation on what content you're paying for. Feels a bit like crowd funding again; paying for a beta product of which you know very little about (but at full price).

To continue beta access (from Standard Beta) will cost another £10. This is a bit cheeky IMO; should have either been free or half price for existing beta customers. Especially considering that this helps FD as well as being fun for us. Sure, £10 isn't a lot seen on it's own, but it bumps that price up to £50, which combined with the 'limited time only' discount and 'don't know what you're buying' deal comes over as bit money-grubbing IMO.


Just my opinion though . I'll be watching this space for more info before placing a pre-order.

Im not saying its not a massive undertaking its the not knowing what is there that is putting loads of people off, just saying you can land on rocks and drive around in ya buggy woopy doo I want much more info than this. How is multiplayer handled etc.

&
No NOT because money!

BECAUSE developing the Procedural Generation of planets with atmosphere, weather effects, volcanic activity, flora and fauna etc. etc. is in a totally different league compared to what 'Horizons' will give us.
When that is released it truly deserves to be a separate expansion, because of the sheer amount of work that has to be poured into it.
You people do not seem to understand what FD is creating here.
It is of monumental proportions.
Horizons in itself will get enough content to be worthy of the price. You can be sure of that.
And the atmospheric planets expansion might be the biggest, most labour intensive expansion of the entire ten year project.
FD is not just creating a single-minded shooter, they are creating a galaxy.
The problem is people do not seem to get the epic proportions of this unique project and they want it all for 39.95.
Well, that just is not possible.

Weather is season 3 at least what you are basically doing is landing on a giant asteroid with no atmosphere or weather at all.

Nobody imposes those deadlines to FD : I would happily wait for a truly solid core game (or season 1) than having rushed expansions (or season of expansions, whatever) each year...
EDIT : it's like how they pulled Sarah Jane Avory off the AI update to have her working on the ground AI for Horizons... Great move, yeah.

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Where did you get that? How is this about impatience?
For me it's about being in the dark while I'm encouraged to buy season 2 right away if I want to enjoy that cheap discount; it's about lack of transparency.

Yeah so what is stopping them pulling some of the team off to other things leaving some sections undone much like some of the careers in season 1 which the forum is in uproar about.

Lol, I'm in the same boat. I'm not sure I'll be still around in a few years either.
But there's nothing FD can do about that.

As am I, I would like to see where we are going before jumping on the boat and then ending up somewhere I could have gotten to earlier elsewhere.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

If FD plans to sell expansions like rolling all previous ones and game into 60 USD package with new one, then people waiting for example for Earth like landings have little to complain - they just wait for right upgrade and then buy it.

I can imagine they will do it like that, which is pretty cool in my mind. Don't want 2.0 - 2.X, wait for 3.0 and get 2.X included. You just miss out on the 2.X content for a year.

Of course, i can imagine the forums imploding once again if they do make it like that.... but hey ho.

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Exactly if we actually knew what this season has in store we all might feel better about backing it, rather than enter our funds into yet another PP debacle that nobody really was into.

Well, this thread has gathered a lot more info: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=172362

If even that is all there is, then its already going to be worth the money in my books, but ill guess there is more stuff they haven't mentioned yet.

Yeah so what is stopping them pulling some of the team off to other things leaving some sections undone much like some of the careers in season 1 which the forum is in uproar about.

They might do, as priorities shift, but from dev comments, it sounds like they have been working on this expansion already for a long time, in parallel to CQC, Powerplay, and other stuff. They do have multiple teams on the go doing different things. The only example we know of (although i'm sure it happens all the time, this is how Agile development works) is SJA being pulled from AI to do something else, probably something to do with one of the upcoming features.