Yes the minor factions are still manually controlled by the developer.
We still want full-guild support and these guilds could be associated with a major faction.
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The New Guilds and Player Owned Stations Discussion Thread.
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Yes the minor factions are still manually controlled by the developer.
We still want full-guild support and these guilds could be associated with a major faction.
Good, Im not really sure how this would be an MMO without Groups/Guilds and interaction, and organizing etc. Otherwise it's just a single player game with the option for a 4 man co op. Can't wait. Hope they release them soon, the population of ED will start to really pick up then, especially when they introduce guild bases and the ability for clans/corps to own systems etc and fight each other.
Kind of like EvE online except with FPS, and the ability to become MUCH larger then EvE ever could (As EvE is limited to about 10k Systems and they have real difficulty managing them all).
In fact ED might actually beat out EvE in the long run, IF they manage to make the game as in depth and interactive player wise as EvE has.
Kind of like EvE online except with FPS, and the ability to become MUCH larger then EvE ever could (As EvE is limited to about 10k Systems and they have real difficulty managing them all).
In fact ED might actually beat out EvE in the long run, IF they manage to make the game as in depth and interactive player wise as EvE has.
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I can hardly wait!
Powerplay is for the players who haven't joined/formed their own organisations. It gives focus to the gameplay that was otherwise missing for lone wolves and wings who aren't into the political economy of the base game.
not having guilds doesn't negate the fact that it's an MMO. the limitations of wings doesn't limit the number of simultaneous ships in an instance or stop you from interacting with many times the single instance limit by passing different players across different instances. it's massively multiplayer, it's online, it's an MMO.
Guilds will be fine. The world wont end.
Guilds will be fine. The world wont end.
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Guilds are player controlled, powerplay and player factions (which are just faction names/locations/allegiance proposed by a player) are player supported. That may seem like semantics but it is a very important difference.
I think you have totally missed what this game is, there is a reason a Solo mode exists and is so popular.
You are implying that traditional MMOs have depth, this isn't anything I have experienced. They have a lot of tedium and text and "story", but not depth, nor do they possess the potential for it really.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
.... or not, as the case may be - no official announcement of Guild features as yet.
Merged.
I got a good laugh out of that - thanks!
Guilds are Easy Mode
what is worse is the playground "my gang is better than your gang" mentality and the inevitable "DIZ is ur SPAEC and U iz NO ALOWD!" nonsense.
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Classic! You should be on the stage!
It works exactly like it does in Open play (or in EvE), if your not friendly with the owner, or the owner has not set the station to "public" you can not access it. The Galaxy and system map should have a notification telling you whether or not you will have access.
Same goes for player owned systems.
And elite Dangerous isn't a bunch of RNG and grinding?
Let me break it down for you. I bought this game 3 weeks ago. Since then I have:
* Ground missions until I can't stand them
* Ran Trade routs until I'm board stiff
* Killed for Bounties until it's just repeat grinding.
* Explored... Yea.. Explored, Grind jumping and Grind Scanning.
* Mined until I wanted to self Destruct from the "Tediousness" of it
Sure ED is a great game, it's got a lot of potential.
But do not even try, and say it isn't your average Korean Grindfest. Because it is. (Even though it's not Korean).
Examples:
* There is ALMOST NO Player interaction, at all. Even in Open play you will RARELY ever see anyone, and if you do? It's generally the same people hovering in the same systems.
* Playing the game has no point, as far as "things to set goals for". Once you get an Anaconda and reach stage 5 in your power... Then what? Run around one- two shotting NPC's for bounties? Go Exploring? (Sure the systems are gorgeous but lets face it, it's the same thing over and over again when you get right down to it).
* There is NO emergent Game play, AT ALL. PP tried, it tried hard, but it's broken system that's just an Illusion, nothing actually ever happens.
* None of the above would be an Issue IF there was Player interaction, and the ability to make things happen and do things.
I keep bringing up EvE online. There is a reason it's Heralded as the Number 1 Space MMO for 13 years still going.. let me say that again 13 YEARS!!! and it's STILL GROWING!. It's because It has Emergent Content which creates itself continuously or is created by the players, giving an infinite amount of stuff to do.
Does EvE have it's problems? Hell yes it's why I don't play it anymore. But there are a load of things it got right also. Endless content is one of them. Elite Dangerous doesn't have that, Yet. But hopefully it will in the Future.
There is nothing wrong with taking some advice from a company that has been successful in this Genre (MMO) for over 13 years, and will be around in another 20 years, Where will ED be then? Hopefully Bigger and Better then EvE. It has SO MUCH POTENTIAL!!! It just needs to be realized.
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Yes Eve Online is successful ..... amongst a particular demographic. It does NOT have widespread appeal, something that Elite: Dangerous is striving for - Frontier is producing a game here that appeals to a wider audience than the guild-based play so prevalent in Eve. There are those that don't like that, sure, but that doesn't make guilds a good thing nor does it make Frontier's approach wrong.
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You say there is almost no player interaction, in open you rarely see anyone. Sorry, but this was ALWAYS going to be the case. Elite's game area is so vast, even the inhabited bubble, that we were ALWAYS going to spread out. Plus the mode switching contributes as the flexibility Frontier has provided permits everyone to play the game they way they want in terms of controlling the degree of player interaction. Hell, yeh, player interaction is not thrown in your face every time you jump into a system. BUT the tools are there to get as much player interaction as you want - just make a private group amongst you and your friends. Or, you know, actually coordinate your activities so you're all in the same area of space. Would be easier with better social tools to be sure, but it's doable you know.
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Here's the thing:
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Introduce improved comms for player groups like guilds is one thing. Even I admit improved social tools would be useful. The problem is, where does it stop? Hopefully Frontier would draw the line in the sand....'this far, no further'. But we ALL know what will happen. There will be guilds that will cry out for more, cry out for the ability to not just communicate and coordinate activities better, but to also 'own' their area of space, to exert control, to dominate others (there are those who do it already). There will be cries for the ability for player guilds to go beyond their own activities to make war on one another. Now, some (a minority I argue) will say that's a good thing. I say there are other games for that - making Elite: Dangerous the same as other games provide is what's boring.
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But you know what's after that? Let's say Frontier were to cave in and allow player guilds to 'own' space, to build or acquire their own stations, to enter into conflict with one another, to dictate terms to others (such as you can go here but can't go there as that's our territory). God forbid we get to the stage where the only way to even survive is to be in a guild. But then the next step is that Frontier will be forced by the guilds to separate the game modes. They'll have no choice because once we go down the path of guild ownership of assets, guild conflict and competition for territory, those same guilds WILL complain that the mode switching too easily enables other player guilds to bypass them, or worse, undermine their activities (you think complaining about the mode switching and CG/PP impacts is bad.....). That WILL back Frontier into a corner - having opened the genie's bottle to a guild-based domination style of play there'll be no putting the genie back in. That precious flexibility so many of us crave, the ability to switch modes, will go because by that point the guilds will already rule the roost and behold Elite: Eve Redux.
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Now, of course, that's all speculation, and some would say doomsaying. Don't get me wrong, I have no objection to improved social tools to enable better player group coordination. Hell, I'd probably benefit from it myself. BUT that's contingent on Frontier drawing that line in the sand, saying unambiguously 'no further' and then having the gumption to stick to that. But if faced with the choice, I for one would rather not let the genie out of the bottle in the first place.
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Yes, Eve has been going for a long time, and one can argue it provides emergent content. Problem is that same emergent content is only appealing to a particular demographic - many others who happily enjoy Elite: Dangerous detest many aspects of Eve: Online. Elite: Dangerous doesn't have to follow the same path to be successful you know......
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1. Population:
EvE online has over 5,000,000 Players world wide, and over 50k-100k logged in at any given moment. That's more then a specific Demographic. Having played EvE since Beta (recently quit a few months ago), I can say there are all kinds of people, who do all kinds of different things, from the questers, to the indy guys who build stuff to people who gather resources, to people who blow those people up, and other who own vast empires in nullsec and fight other vast empires, even explorers who go into wormholes and are not seen again for months at a time.
Battles of 5000+ individuals in a single system is common place. That's more people in a single battle on average, then the total number of people to play ED this week. So they must be doing something right.
ED has 5k players, maybe 10k players. (According to steam right now only 2k are logged in and only 4k have played it this week) Well say 15k total players to be fair and count those that don't use steam.
2. Vastness:
EvE does not have 4 Billion Systems true, but it does have over 100,000, which is pretty damn Vast, when Compared to ED considering the Vast majority of ED's pop is centered around the starting areas, because there is well... Nothing... Anywhere else. (Which is the main issue).
So Yea ED is Vast, a Vast Nothingness, with nothing to do in it's Vastness. Where as EvE is Vast with tons of stuff to do No matter where you go. See the point?
3. Owning space/etc
This is not an issue as the core where all the PP stuff is and the starter areas can't be owned by players, that's over 100k systems that players simply can't own and a vast area in and of itself. Problem solved. Not to mention you could always allow players to take each others systems and stations. (like EvE does). Not to mention you have Solo mode with ED where none of that really effects you in the slightest.
4. On Emergent content
If you don't like it, that's what Solo Mode is for. See, problem Solved, again.
ED is a Niche Game, Trying to be an MMO without offering anything an MMO offers. FD need to make up their minds, either keep it Niche and be small time, and see the game left in the dust in 5 years to other competitors, who take risks, and who went big, or Go big, and roll with the AAA MMO's and make a place in the Annals of gaming for the new century.
I AM NOT saying change the game GOD NO. I AM saying OPEN IT UP, and let players make use of the Games potential and Vastness like the Devs in their small numbers never could in a million years. For a game as large as ED it is simply FAR too much work for the Devs alone to create content and expect anything but the slightest fleeting success. No they need to let players create the content, and populate the Universe.
Do you really think for a second EvE would be the game it is today if CCP had said, Nope, Players can't do anything, heres 100,000 systems 75k of which have nothing in them but well get to them eventually and add stuff..... No, it would have flopped after the first couple of years when the Dev team got so overwhelmed they couldn't deal with it anymore. Or when the players got tired of waiting, got bored and left for other games.
So instead they created a sandbox (Like ED) threw the players in and gave them the means to control the Universe and said... Have at it. And they did, and now you have 100,000+ systems teaming with content where there is never enough time to do everything that can be done, and never ending content.
ED has over 400 BILLION star systems...... WTH is all that empty space going to be for? If you think FD plans for anything less then allowing players to do exactly, what they do in EvE, your nuts. ELITE Dangerous will be very "similar" to EvE in the end, just a Bigger, MUCH Better version of it, while simultaneously remaining it's OWN game. Watch.
Why? Because that is the only logical conclusion when you have a game this large, and this vast.
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And if that occurs, I will move on to other games, or stop gaming entirely as ED is the first game I have compulsively played for more than a few weeks at a time.
The things you think are great and want from the game are very different to myself. At the moment, the game is early in its life, this allows us both to have dreams of the future. I expect if it goes one way or the other, one of us will move on.
I am hoping FD can find a middle ground where you are happy with content, or rather continue to play, and wishing for more, and I can play my game without keep butting into flaming guilds. PP was 50/50 staying or going for me, been here since alpha so got my money's worth, just not the direction I wanted the game to go in. The features FD outlined coming for PP, negate my very negative opinion of PP and I am happy to put up until they arrive. I am hoping, should FD implement guilds, and (shudder) guild ownership, they can do it in a way that does not drive me into solo or from the game.
Havng said that, I think the various organised player groupings,such as guilds they exist already, just do not interfere with my game), Powerplay and groups working on the Background Simulator could do with more channels of communication in game.
Simon
Like I said earlier even if it does go in the EvE direction you have SOLO mode, in which case it will STILL be the game you want/ Neither one of us will leave. We'll simply play in different arenas. Me in Open you in SOlO.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
It has ceased to surprise me that players who want Guild features to be introduced into a game (whose CEO clearly has some reservations about the ways that Guilds can adversely influence players experience of the game) that does not have them nor are they on the list for implementation then assumes that they will be introduced into the only Open access game mode and that anyone who doesn't like that can toddle off to Solo....
Or on the other hand, those that want big groups so they can play Eve style can go into Group Mode and leave Open and Solo to those who want to play it the way it was originally envisaged.
First for me, ninja'd by a moderator
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So, quite apart from your odd use of colour, on the one hand you say you don't want to change the game, but on the other you want to open it up along Eve lines - which will actually fundamentally change the game if you take it down the Eve path! Interesting......
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It's cliched, but if Eve has so much going for it, go play that instead of trying turn Elite: Dangerous into something it's not and was never intended to be - that Eve clone you and others seem so intent it should be.
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And 5,000,000 players or not, it is still a specific demographic, ie players who wish to play in that cutthroat environment. By demographic I was obviously referring to the type of player that enjoys that environment - size of the playerbase makes no difference in that. Those who don't either avoid it to begin with, or leave (eg because they find the atmosphere toxic). That emergent content you seem so fond of suits the demographic of players who play Eve - it does not automatically follow that it is good gameplay for everyone else, irrespective of what you believe or how hard you push it.
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You and others would seemingly rather turn Elite into an Eve clone that will benefit, primarily, that same demographic. How about some diversity, like letting Frontier follow a different path? How about letting those players who don't want the Eve style of game have their game here? No, your solution, instead of adapting your own playstyle to suit Elite, is to insist that Frontier changes the design to suit you and if the rest of us don't like it we can go to solo. And when people like me oppose that approach, the usual response is to ask what we're afraid of. Sorry, but I don't buy that and will oppose that at every opportunity.
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Your 'logical' conclusion is only logical to someone who already has the point of view that you have. I don't share your opinion, so it is not to me (and many others) the logical deduction you claim it to be. It is not a fait accompli that Elite must follow the Eve path despite what you believe.
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Well, that is actually untrue.
ED does have community support for player groups. Those can have "their own" minor faction, can have custom tailored CGs, and can have a shot at the ascension to become a power. While they aren't really ingame features for player group only, they are definitely features that support player groups.
ED doesn't have guilds. But minor factions. And powers.
While the game itself has limited social features connected to powers or minor factions, and missing an organization level between wings and minor factions (which would be a "guild"), it has mass coop play and large amounts of company support from the Frontier team for player groups.
For me personally allowing guilds is a logical step sooner or later. Offering player groups community goals, own minor factions, their "own" power ... but no chat or member management seems... strange.
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