The Star Citizen Thread v 3.0

[starhawkprime]

"Why Star Citizen Is Taking So Long http://kotaku.com/why-star-citizen-i...ong-1724835913

I have such a "duke nukem forever" feeling when reading the article..."





Heres some more loser vaporware games!

http://www.metacritic.com/feature/games-that-shed-vaporware-status

 

[1500]

How come this thread got moved to the Elite Dangerous discussion area rather than remaining in the "other games" section?

Merged the wrong way.

 

[el_tel]

How come this thread got moved to the Elite Dangerous discussion area rather than remaining in the "other games" section?

Exactly what I was just thinking. I was just catching up with this thread in Off-Topic, then went to Dangerous Discussion and noticed it.

 

[1500]

Whether or not you count $1 million and 10 guys working for a year to create a proof of concept video as development, the simple fact is that it is not in any way comparable to full on active development with entire studios and 200+ people working full time. All the other games in that graph counts just this (full studios working full time on the games in question), so including the initial 1 year of work for SC makes no sense in this context, or do you also think we should count Elite: Dangerous as having taken 14 years worth of development (probably upwards of 16 years by the time they deliver on the features promised back in 2000)?

The second paragraph is really quite misleading. None of those games are being developed with just the funds mentioned here (600k for Descent and 244k for Everspace), but has had significantly more funds invested in them from non-crowdfunded sources. Crowdfunding for the vast majority of games, is only meant as an additional source of funding and as a way of proving the viability of the project to external investors, it is only a rare few games like SC that get the entirety of their funds from crowdfunding.

Take Bloodstained for instance. They initially asked for just 500k, but as the creator later revealed, the full budget for the game was in fact $5 million, of which he had already lined up $4.5 million from investors. Luckily for them, they managed to secure $5.5 million through Kickstarter, and were thus not dependent upon external funding, but with games like Descent and Everspace only just hitting their targets (assuming Everspace doesn't make a massive sprint towards the end), they will still have to rely upon external investors.



You start talking about the original kickstarter and the initially promised release date of 2014 (as part of a subject on how long SC has been in development for). Confucios pointing out that the reason behind the delay in the release date, stems from the change in scope, is not changing the subject. It is (as Confucios pointed out) bringing context to the subject, and not (as you claimed) irrelevant to the subject.

Actually it is a change of subject because it has nothing to do with how long the game has been in development or when the start was, and yes it is irrelevant to the subject. Why it has been in development so long is not the subject, but you know that, you just like arguing incorrect information. Anyway forgot I had not put you on ignore on these forums so away you go.

 

[OnePercent]

It's not possible to get a duke nukem feel with star citizen, the games always been in the hands of chris roberts, so there isn't any swapping of development in house, each studio is pretty much allocated a role and a game as big as star citizen was gonna take ages anyway.

When i backed them in 2012 i knew from the start this would take longer than X Rebirth to make (7 years) i fully expect the game to be somewhat feature complete by 2019-2020

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Ok wow this is way worse than I thought.

 

[Troels]

Actually it is a change of subject because it has nothing to do with how long the game has been in development or when the start was, and yes it is irrelevant to the subject. Why it has been in development so long is not the subject, but you know that, you just like arguing incorrect information. Anyway forgot I had not put you on ignore on these forums so away you go.

Why it has been in development so long is most certainly the subject, or did you just forget that the whole thing started with discussion of the Kotaku article named "Why Star Citizen Is Taking So Long"?

And yes I suppose ignoring uncomfortable truths is one way of handling things, it is after all a fairly common coping mechanism with regards to cognitive dissonance.

 

[1500]

It's not possible to get a duke nukem feel with star citizen, the games always been in the hands of chris roberts, so there isn't any swapping of development in house, each studio is pretty much allocated a role and a game as big as star citizen was gonna take ages anyway.

When i backed them in 2012 i knew from the start this would take longer than X Rebirth to make (7 years) i fully expect the game to be somewhat feature complete by 2019-2020

Many people did, lots of us pointed out the feature creep when it was happening (its still happening its just not as in your face). But we were told that it was not happening and that we were not Dev and so who were we to contradict CR. And if CR said it would be finished in two years then it would be.

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13284-Letter-From-The-Chairman-20-Million

There has been some concern about “feature creep” with the additional stretch goals. You should all know that we carefully consider the goals we announce. Typically the stretch goals fall into two categories;

But both types of goals are carefully considered — we don’t commit to adding features that would hold up the game’s ability to go “live” in a fully functional state.

The thing is most people do not have a problem with delays, or with a game taking longer to make, as long as the delays end with quality work. Bliz gets away with being known as the delay king because when they do release something it is very polished and well done (even if you personally don't like it). Same is true for a number of other studios.

CIG's problem is that they keep delaying then releasing broken poor quality work. They do this all the while hyping their own work by talking about how amazing it is, it ends up feeling like CIG are out of touch with their own development. With AC CR stated that they could not get away with a "pre-pre-alpha" and that what they release would have to be a "more polished alpha" then what is normally seen. Well after 6 month delay, most of the backers are fine with the delay after all they were promised polished work, AC drops. CR calls it a pre-alpha, and that it was rushed out the door for the backers. Its a buggy broken mess that didn't even have the multiplayer, you know the part that delayed the module in the first place (took another 2 months before everyone had access). For the past year+ this has been CIG's pattern, something is delayed, then it release as a broken, half finished state.

Delays are not the problem, CIG having a history of being unable to release quality work after those delays are the problem.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Problem in nutshell you can't take game producer known for going overbudget and being out of loop, give him lots of cash and hope something reasonable will come out of it. You just can't.

 

[Zetta]

My only concern about Star Citizen is the person in charge of it. Some people are good at balancing ideas, finances and deadlines, Roberts is not one of those people - if there was ever anyone that needed to wear a yoke, it's him. Grand aspirations are great when it's not your money.

 

[Axelsson]

I suppose the only point to buy all those ships is to be donating money as if the ship progression in game is similar to ED then you could have very many of them within a year of play. If the ship progression in game is much harder than ED then people will moan like crazy. For value one basic ship package now makes most sense, if you believe the game will be released.

And the cheapest package is $56 right now if I understand the website correctly?

 

[Troels]

And the cheapest package is $56 right now if I understand the website correctly?

Only $30 actually, although it might be slightly higher if you have to pay VAT (but certainly not as high as $56).

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

My only concern about Star Citizen is the person in charge of it. Some people are good at balancing ideas, finances and deadlines, Roberts is not one of those people - if there was ever anyone that needed to wear a yoke, it's him. Grand aspirations are great when it's not your money.

whilst he does have a penchant for over promising (but to be fair most do! I adore Elite D but the jury is still out as to whether they will get all the content DB has chatted about over the last few years imo.... We will know more in a few years time!), i think this criticism against CR is a little harsh. I have loved every one of his games personally........

 

[Zetta]

whilst he does have a penchant for over promising (but to be fair most do! I adore Elite D but the jury is still out as to whether they will get all the content DB has chatted about over the last few years imo.... We will know more in a few years time!), i think this criticism against CR is a little harsh. I have loved every one of his games personally........

I've quite enjoyed his games as well, at the same time lots of people enjoyed Molyneaux's work..
It's just that I don't like the idea of another Freelancer debacle on the back of crowdfunded money - which is not meant to imply it will be like that but there already seems to be similarities.

 

[Troels]

I've quite enjoyed his games as well, at the same time lots of people enjoyed Molyneaux's work..
It's just that I don't like the idea of another Freelancer debacle on the back of crowdfunded money - which is not meant to imply it will be like that but there already seems to be similarities.

I think with any crowd funded project there will always be an inherent risk, and while it goes without saying that most of us want CIG to succeed with all their visions, said risk will always be there, and we'll just have to accept that.

And as far as Freelancer goes, while it was certainly a bit of a debacle, and it came in late and short of CR's vision, it was still a pretty good game when all was said and done.

 

[Barking_Mad]

I said this earlier in the thread, more than anything they need an excellent project manager. Not only to do the job of developing the game, but to keep CR in check. The more I see of SC the more I'm impressed at Frontier.

Id be interested to know how much of that money is left.

 

[rootsrat]

Problem in nutshell you can't take game producer known for going overbudget and being out of loop, give him lots of cash and hope something reasonable will come out of it. You just can't.

Of course you can. Just look at Star Citizen...

 

[LameoveR]

Bought SC and ED at the same time for the same price in February. Have played SC almost 3+hrs.

 

[MeTheGreat]

Spending $1million making game assets and a demo in engine. Yes I count that as development, most people would. You really should count it when that was the original pitch, that he had all these game assets and all this work put in and he just needed more money to finish it in 2 more years. Why do you think people believed him when he said it would be in beta at the end of 2014, it was because they has supposedly put so much in already.

Go check out kickstarter, most of the game on there are asking way way less than 1million to make the full game. Descent: Underground only asked for 600k, Everspace only 244k. The fact that you want to just ignore a years worth of work and over $1million spent on development is just mind boggling, when so many developers only dream of getting that much to make their total game.

Wait, what ? That is bizarre xD

Come on now. How can you add in 1 year spent on a tiny proof of concept ? That's ridiculous. A handful of people making proof of concept that is minute fraction of the scope of the actual game, with the sole purpose of pitching that to Kickstarter. Adding on 1 year from that and saying "It took 3.7 years" ? Whether he spend $1 million or not, common sense should tell you that saying "3.7 years" is simply an inaccurate statement, and it's just unfair to say that.
"Yes I count that as development, most people would"
No, most people don't. I've seen a lot of people who expect a game of this size to be done in 2.5 years, but this one is a first. I've never seen this before in any SC argument.
Maybe if the game was still at $7 million in funding, and set to release 2014, then maybe what you're saying would be a little more reasonable, but to count that initial proof of concept as 1 year of development for SC as it is now... doesn't work.

In response to your second paragraph - It doesn't matter how much any other games asked for. Are any of them close to the scale and the quality of Star Citizen to begin with ? No, not at all. $1 million was spent to get a certain level of quality - with a massive Bengal carrier, some of the interior. Hornets with animations, Vanduul ships, highly detailed characters with animations - something which the games you mentioned don't even have. All of that in incredibly high fidelity. The comparison you're making simply doesn't work.
Star Citizen has AAA quality First Person level detail, with very highly detailed characters and animations and everything. The proof of concept had this as well. That's on a completely different level to any of the other games you're talking about. This, by itself, renders all those comparisons useless. Some things simply cost a lot of money. Getting that insane quality, getting some mocap even ? Ofcourse it could cost $1 million. There is no comparison, it's all just very different - they're on different levels altogether.

Full scale AAA game development costs are really really high. Star Citizen is one of the few, along with Kingdom Come Deliverance, to attempt this through crowdfunding. As far as space games go, SC is the only one.

- - - Updated - - -

PS - Don't mean to offend you or be condescending btw. It might come off that way because of the beginning of the comment,but I'm just arguing that's all.

 

[Troels]

Wait, what ? That is bizarre xD

...snip...

PS - Don't mean to offend you or be condescending btw. It might come off that way because of the beginning of the comment,but I'm just arguing that's all.

You should be careful trying to argue with 1500, I said basically the same things to him, which he never responded to and then he put me on ignore