UA Mystery Thread 3: The Canonn

[LordZoltan]

How would one translate any Alien languge. We know how we equipped the Voyager probes. And we know the UAs are transmitting their locations in morse code (the human version). So any sounds that are left is the equvilent of Thargoid morse code or even speech. Dash dot dot dash dash...... equals Chirp Honk Chirp Chitter etc etc...... oh my my tinfoil is slipping. Thats the wonderful thing about humankinds first ever interaction with an Alien species. Except here we have very clear clues right in front of us "listen to them" and "look at them".

I would just like to point out that the above lore I have listed was written by non other than The Braben and his friends personally. The similarities to the current story and finds is almost frightening. Because if we stuff this up we could be starting an intergalactic war all over again. Even worse from what I have perceived from the past lore and the current lore is that Elite Dangerous is not even about Us or the Thargoids. There is something worse coming. And I speculate the Thargoids know it and are actually trying to enlist mankinds help to fight it. Why else would a race proven to be Superior to us in almost every way not wipe us out when they had the chance. Because they need help fighting an even greater menace that's out there.

The idea that the sound is a Rosetta stone for the alien 'language' is the simplest explanation for the sound yet. *And* it was mentioned very early on, too.

Except...

It would mean the sound designers haven't been quite as hot as they have been elsewhere, because the rest of the sound doesn't repeat at all from what anyone's been able to gather; and if the rest of it is the alien equivalent of the same system name, then it would have to repeat. I guess it's possible they didn't put as much effort into that part of the sound, but... Well, with the Morse we see evidence of dynamically generated sound based on location data; doing the same for alien sounds would be the same process, just with different sounds and logic, and I think they would have done so if that's what it is. I might have too much faith, though.

 

[RedWizzard]

BUT They were "Duplicates" maybe that's why it did nothing ???
Any indication they are individuals ? Slightly different sounds or markings between them ?

Nothing I've noticed.

Personally I'll be really annoyed if putting some number of non-duplicated UAs together is the solution. Firstly that bug has been known about since before the game was released. Why would you base a mystery on a mechanic that's known to be bugged? Why wouldn't you do something about the bug (or at least say something) when the mystery item is known to have been duplicated? The bug has been specifically reported in connection to the UA, and still it hasn't been fixed. It's been months. Secondly, it would mean the mystery was only solvable by groups which would be a bit of kick in the teeth of solo players, wouldn't it? Would FD do that after the offline fiasco? I hope not.

Edit: actually that second objection isn't true since theoretically one player could collect multiple UAs. Prior to the discovery of free floating UAs it would have been practically impossible but not absolutely impossible.

- - - Updated - - -

I bet the outcome of putting 2+ UA together simply wasn't implemented into the game at the time you were doing your duplication tests. Now it is.

That's possible. I wouldn't be too pleased with that sort of moving goal post though. Are we supposed to repeat every test after each release in case FD have changed the answer? That would suck.

 

[I and I Redeye]

Shame. Results like that will muddy the waters.

He's responding to the duplicate bug.

That means we need many together but not duplicates.
Only UA's are needed.
Needs to be done near Earth or a water world.

Is this what he's saying?

I also think the answer is at Earth or Sol.
Federation are the 1st contact I reckon, like the probes are looking for Earth or something.
Unless the Thargoids is looking for another species?
If they are trying to contact us, they know about Earth, it would make sense to reach us there, especially if Federation is involved.

 

[bitstorm]

All this theorizing.....

As I say I'm happy to do a test today/tonight if we can pull in 4 UAs.

Spoiler

Just need 3 others...

 

[Lazerus Artificial]

All this theorizing.....

As I say I'm happy to do a test today/tonight if we can pull in 4 UAs.

Spoiler

https://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B8ck-2ELKOuLMTF3R09TVzNqTHc

Just need 3 others...

hopefully you get a group and the test shows a result...and not just a dead end again.

 

[LordZoltan]

There is also RedWizzard's test which ended up in however many UA's been gotten from the cargo duplication bug.

Yeah that's not the same as get4ing a bunch together, as mentioned in a few posts above.

Duplicates like this were where the clients and server were not correctly tying up the one instance of the UA to the same item server-side, but each client only ever saw one.

Had those CMDRs then deployed those UAs back into space at that point, then everyone would've seen multiple UAs.

The UA is a template for an object, with a set of behaviours and 'target actions' (e.g. it's solid, can be scooped etc) with a 3d model and sound, all stored in the client code. If there were a behaviour caused by n UAs being in proximity, it would only trigger if the client saw that many within that proximity.

Ergo, if you accept my explanation of the duplication bug, then that explains why the behaviour wasn't triggered straight away.

EDIT

The servers do not, and really cannot, account for every item being scooped having a legitimate lifetime; I.e. that it was duped or not. The evidence you need for this is the very existence of the dupe bug in the first place. Therefore it doesn't actually matter if a UA was duped, once jettisoned again, it's a unique UA.

The crucial element to any UA 'Pow wow' will be the number of UAs that are dropped together, not whether they're 'legit' or not.

As mentioned earlier - 4 is my minimum recommendation. Just 'feels' right. But, as Han_Zen has said, there reasonable arguments all the way up to 12.

Btw, discount my earlier post about coordinating a Pow Wow - it doesn't look like that kind of guidance is required from me any more; looks like it's just going to happen

 

[PsychoFish]

Ok, maybe the UAs have a unique feature based on where they originate from.

Example: We tested 109V UAs and duplicate (bug) ones. - Maybe the desired effect (whatever it will be) only occurs if UAs from different points of Origin meet.

Basically: Put one 109V UA next to one Timocali UA next to one black hole UA, etc. ... I think, we should mention the point of origin when describing our UAs.

 

[Wabbitsand]

The idea that the sound is a Rosetta stone for the alien 'language' is the simplest explanation for the sound yet. *And* it was mentioned very early on, too.

Except...

It would mean the sound designers haven't been quite as hot as they have been elsewhere, because the rest of the sound doesn't repeat at all from what anyone's been able to gather; and if the rest of it is the alien equivalent of the same system name, then it would have to repeat. I guess it's possible they didn't put as much effort into that part of the sound, but... Well, with the Morse we see evidence of dynamically generated sound based on location data; doing the same for alien sounds would be the same process, just with different sounds and logic, and I think they would have done so if that's what it is. I might have too much faith, though.

That's just it, Maybe they have. Lets just remember that FD have said that when we work out what it is it will unlock something else. That does not mean that its in the game yet. Maybe when we work out its purpose they push a button on the updater and the next piece of the puzzle and 20k plus threads begin again. You know the saddest part is I believe the entire FD team is watching this thread in stitches going aaaaahhh nearly and then what the hell where did that come from. Mr Braben and Mr Brookes if your reading this you have created a monster and I hope this teaches you a valuable lesson for the future. Children are starving, workplaces are missing staff and wives are being neglected all because of this UA. We know your watching and I don't know whats worse, Thargoids or FD. Lol.

 

[feldz]

That's possible. I wouldn't be too pleased with that sort of moving goal post though. Are we supposed to repeat every test after each release in case FD have changed the answer? That would suck.

But if you think about it from devs perspective - that makes a lot of sense. The solution to puzzle achieved easier with team effort (great MMO-aspect publicity for them), but can still be done by single pilot (solid defense from no-offline mode/solo preference attack). Showing integrity in punishing cheating, exploiting game mechanics behavior. Puzzle hype going on for period of almost half a year, without much effort to develop. I really had fun with it until cheating players started to point towards the right solution so obviously. And now we receive same obvious clues from Kerrash. Seems like devs want or have to move to the next stage of the puzzle

 

[RedWizzard]

Yeah that's not the same as get4ing a bunch together, as mentioned in a few posts above.

Duplicates like this were where the clients and server were not correctly tying up the one instance of the UA to the same item server-side, but each client only ever saw one.

Had those CMDRs then deployed those UAs back into space at that point, then everyone would've seen multiple UAs.

The UA is a template for an object, with a set of behaviours and 'target actions' (e.g. it's solid, can be scooped etc) with a 3d model and sound, all stored in the client code. If there were a behaviour caused by n UAs being in proximity, it would only trigger if the client saw that many within that proximity.

Ergo, if you accept my explanation of the duplication bug, then that explains why the behaviour wasn't triggered straight away.

We did redeploy them and did see multiples on single client systems. I successively scooped 3 that were close together in space at one point. The only explanations for that test not being successful if this is in fact answer are:
1. the game can tell the difference between duplicated and non-duplicated UAs, in which case why didn't they say something as they've effectively let us waste our time due to a bug ever since; or
2. the "group them together" behaviour was added later, which would mean they've effectively let us waste our time as all the old tests are in fact invalid.

 

[Acus]

Purrs theory correct me if im wrong:
5-6 Every cycle (2 in HR1185)
Max 2 high or low purrs in a row. With 5 purrs in cycle it gives 20 combinations... or maybe 20 symbols ? If Yes, all we need is dictionary, a long signal with blocks of 5 impulses , never 3 in a row + human symbol representation.

But even this gives us one symbol per cycle, so about 7 symbols per jetissoned UA. Its not much, but what if every UA is transmitting diffirent part of longer messege?...

Lot of if's ...

Never found same purrs sequence (was it tested in one system/location ?).

 

[LordZoltan]

Oh and the UA group might all need to be gathered and ejected from one cargo hold...

Or...

When that one cargo hold contains the requisite number of UAs, something else might happen (and I don't mean insta-death from excessive corrosion!)

 

[RedWizzard]

But if you think about it from devs perspective - that makes a lot of sense. The solution to puzzle achieved easier with team effort (great MMO-aspect publicity for them), but can still be done by single pilot (solid defense from no-offline mode/solo preference attack). Showing integrity in punishing cheating, exploiting game mechanics behavior. Puzzle hype going on for period of almost half a year, without much effort to develop. I really had fun with it until cheating players started to point towards the right solution so obviously. And now we receive same obvious clues from Kerrash. Seems like devs want or have to move to the next stage of the puzzle

It doesn't explain why didn't say the duplicated UAs were invalid. We've repeated mentioned that UAs were duplicated, and filled a bug report about it, yet they let the thing go on for 3 months and 20,000 posts before saying anything. They're punishing us for their bug which we accidentally triggered. How is that fair?

 

[LordZoltan]

We did redeploy them and did see multiples on single client systems. I successively scooped 3 that were close together in space at one point. The only explanations for that test not being successful if this is in fact answer are:
1. the game can tell the difference between duplicated and non-duplicated UAs, in which case why didn't they say something as they've effectively let us waste our time due to a bug ever since; or
2. the "group them together" behaviour was added later, which would mean they've effectively let us waste our time as all the old tests are in fact invalid.

Ah... Boo... I see the issue there, then!

Well, assuming the code was there, then more this time than you saw back then!

Edit: and apologies for not being fully 'up there' with those early facts. That's a bit slack of me :$

 

[Lazerus Artificial]

We did redeploy them and did see multiples on single client systems. I successively scooped 3 that were close together in space at one point. The only explanations for that test not being successful if this is in fact answer are:
1. the game can tell the difference between duplicated and non-duplicated UAs, in which case why didn't they say something as they've effectively let us waste our time due to a bug ever since; or
2. the "group them together" behaviour was added later, which would mean they've effectively let us waste our time as all the old tests are in fact invalid.

would suck, but it would be possible.
it would make sense to implement it as a group effort, also it would make sense to implement that mystery in "phases".
I think i have read that the sound changed with 1.3? So if one thing changes, why not other things too?

 

[Popov Le Magnifique]

All right guys, I truly believe we just have to "listen" to it. Maybe the whole convoy thing was there as a hint to tell us "hey there is this new thing called the unknown artefact, try and find it yourselves!". The thing is at the beginning we thought only T9 convoys had them and they couldn't be found alone, freefloating, where they don't seem to degrade. In the Wings trailer, I don't think they got it from a Federal convoy.

MB's "have you tried listening to them?" was directed to the freefloating UA, not the one scooped up from the convoy. I'm sure there is still something else, if we stick to the "listening" when we find it freefloating.

------

On a similar note, when it was released in a station, did it degrade? Did anybody listen/record it while INSIDE the station?

------

Guys, don't scoop it please, just LISTEN TO IT. 30 minutes, 2 hours, I don't mind!

Am I driving crazy? I dunno.

 

[Jmanis]

So, I honestly don't think anything would've been added "after the fact", but that's just pure belief...

But with everyone going on about quantities,, I can't help but think; anyone ever put 4 UA's together for anything?

4 being: one per commander in a wing, or the number of pods down each side. Maybe dumping them close does something, maybe the whole wing jumping does something.

 

[ArmoredMeat]

Purrs theory correct me if im wrong:
5-6 Every cycle (2 in HR1185)
Max 2 high or low purrs in a row. With 5 purrs in cycle it gives 20 combinations... or maybe 20 symbols ? If Yes, all we need is dictionary, a long signal with blocks of 5 impulses , never 3 in a row + human symbol representation.

But even this gives us one symbol per cycle, so about 7 symbols per jetissoned UA. Its not much, but what if every UA is transmitting diffirent part of longer messege?...

Lot of if's ...

Never found same purrs sequence (was it tested in one system/location ?).

5-6 clearly heard
6-7 with one or two overlapped by the honk.

 

[knowles2]

Honestly, if you want to say "shame" you should direct it at whoever has failed to fix an exploitable bug that's been known about since gamma.

It certainly wasn't intentionally triggered on our part. And I'd be surprised if there was a difference between cargo-dupe-bug UAs and normal UAs, as surely if ED could easily detect the difference the bug would be easy to fix (or at least mitigate).

or may be he telling us Frontier haven't yet figure out how to fixed the bug but have manage to make sure that it can't be exploited to crack this puzzle. It possible that their back end systems do detect the bug and do make sure commanders acitvely using it are punished.

 

[feldz]

It doesn't explain why didn't say the duplicated UAs were invalid. We've repeated mentioned that UAs were duplicated, and filled a bug report about it, yet they let the thing go on for 3 months and 20,000 posts before saying anything. They're punishing us for their bug which we accidentally triggered. How is that fair?

Otherwise they would give you every clue you need to solve the puzzle. And they weren't ready back then to give a follow up for it. This was good decision on their part and they've said repeatedly before that exploiting and cheating will not be tolerated - you shouldn't have made any conclusions regarding puzzle while using exploits. You are in the wrong. And devs are acting very straight here. Also 20k posts of hype is good for E