NO to "third party tools" for ED

[Banana's_Are_Good_For_You]

Sorry. I didn't really mean for it to be an attack. Things have changed and certainly not all of them for the better. I agree with you on spammy aspects of many games these days. *I better be careful here otherwise I'll be a huge hypocrite by making comparisons to 'the old days'* Elite is different in many ways. I just feel that challenge or depth from the game shouldn't come replicating the limitations of the past, but by finding new ways to expand the experience.

I think back in the BBC Micro days, it was amazing that they came up with what they did, and that was most likely pushing the limits of the hardware. With todays hardware capabilities, the possibilities for an expanded gameplay experience are huge.

Great to hear from a fellow BBC Elite explorer.

I was just in defence mode, not often I get such attention tbh and called out. I'm really kinda shy. I usually read then post then run away.
I have such high hopes for this game.
And yeah, I really want them to think Universe, rather than lame, done before and dumb MMO mechanic. This is the game where you can make a name for yourself, if you do it right and bring something new.
I am expecting some really cool stuff and if it all comes in one seemless package (beyond the free stuff) I will be such a happy bun....err, I mean banana.
But yeah, never wanted a game to be so good as this one.

 

[wolverine2710]

I haven't seen any, but what do you need in particular?
(I'm a developer hungry to contribute some kind of software to ED, lmao)

I've searched EDCodex for the word PowerPlay. Atm there is one tool and one thread for it. You might be interested in the tool "Ed-Map.eu - Galaxy's Systems & Power Play". Part of the description: visualize Power Play influences .

I know there is another tool but the author wanted to stop its development and asked for volunteers. Forgot to directly put it in EDCodex and now can't find it back in the forums. If somebody knows about the PP tool , please sent me a PM OR even better add it directly to EDCodex. Any one can and is encourage to do so ;-)

 

[wolverine2710]

Two days ago I finally cracked the Elite rank in trading. It took about 10 months. I'd say 95% of the 1 billion credits acquired were using a trading tool. If you think the use of a 3rd party tool somehow invalidates the time/effort it too to reach the rank then that is your reality not mine.

I have read comments about trading being a grind using a tool. Um, I think I missed something because surely if a tool optimises your trading then it actually minimises your grind. I think it is fair to say that trading in general can be a grind whether a tool is used or not. I neither encourage nor discourage players from using tools - do whatever you want and you enjoy. I am interested to hear stories of what others enjoy so I can identify and relate to them, but also to see if there are any new ways in which I can enjoy the game.

I have read comments about what others imagine my enjoyment of ED to be and how it must be diminished because I use a tool. Mmm. I love ED. It is my favourite game (and I think there has been no time when there have been so many great games around). I have thoroughly enjoyed playing and trading with a tool. I know how to trade without a tool using the GM, SM, market import/export info and purchased trade data, and I still find trading without a tool mildly frustrating because the in-game information could be organised better and mechanisms to search and record your own in-game info could be better but acknowledge that overcoming those frustrations can be rewarding to a certain extent.

This forum is a third party tool to ED. I'd like it if there were an in-game community forum/noticeboard system with commander profiles etc rather than the limited instant messaging. But there isn't - so this forum fills a need and I think we all enjoy using the forums otherwise we wouldn't be using them. And that's the nature of other third party tools - they fulfil needs and enhance enjoyment when we want.

I will put my hand up - I created/run a website that shares price data that supports a trading tool. I did this because I had moved on from paper and then excel to try a few trading tools but tools needed data. After collecting the data myself for a while I thought - "gees I need other people to tell me what the price of stuff is where they are". Muhaha. But seriously it is implausible to me that there is a universe where there is so much interstellar technology/communication, GalNet etc, but no commodity market advertising. If I were running a market at a station, transmitting my price list would definitely be part of my interstellar marketing campaign.

To my mind, those of us that make and use 3rd party trading tools are doing what traders would be doing in the ED universe. Moreover, I have gained additional enjoyment through the community of 3rd party tool developers - working out how to solve problems, being amazed at the creativity of people, and some very nice feedback from other commanders.

I think some 3rd party tools are filling gaps in the game for those who choose to use them, some believe certain features should be in-game, some don't. Plus, if there's any chance that 3rd party tools can take even a small percentage of the feature development burden away from Frontier then woohoo I say 'cos I gotta get me some of those planetary landings!! Hurry up dudes!

Well said and very politely and respectful. I like it.
I totally agree. I'm also in the "95% of time using trading tools" group.

Note: The NO and YES thread certainly had an impact on the number of users,pageviews in EDCodex.info. A very nice increase. It looks as if commanders are interested in third party tools.

 

[OamodSias]

Well said and very politely and respectful. I like it.
I totally agree. I'm also in the "95% of time using trading tools" group.

Note: The NO and YES thread certainly had an impact on the number of users,pageviews in EDCodex.info. A very nice increase. It looks as if commanders are interested in third party tools.

Of course we are but, as always there's a small minority of people who are quite vocal in their opinions who would like nothing less than the banishment of their ire, in this case the removal of all 3rd party tools, completely ignoring what the majority feel because, you know, we're wrong.

- - - Updated - - -

I've searched EDCodex for the word PowerPlay. Atm there is one tool and one thread for it. You might be interested in the tool "Ed-Map.eu - Galaxy's Systems & Power Play". Part of the description: visualize Power Play influences .

I know there is another tool but the author wanted to stop its development and asked for volunteers. Forgot to directly put it in EDCodex and now can't find it back in the forums. If somebody knows about the PP tool , please sent me a PM OR even better add it directly to EDCodex.

Thanks for that, those a very helpful sites ( yours and the one you linked here ) - Ed-Map has managed to get a layout which actually makes it easier to distinguish what's what - I always struggle trying to see if a system is in which factions sphere of influence. xD

 

[wolverine2710]

I'm glad I could be of some help. Have a good look at the trading tools category - section tools and threads.. I'm sure that there are tools which also have a PP component - but its only shown in the (full) description and not in the title or the short description. There are also lots of threads about trading with routes (regular and rares). The whole and sole purpose of EDCodex (website) and its companion thread is to prevent all those gems from being snowed under and giving the tools and their authors the exposure they truly deserve.

Ironically, the EDCodex thread it self is snowed under all the time ;-(
The website has lots of visitors but commanders don't post feedback about EDCodex in the thread. Not sure why....

 

[Ralph Vargr]

I've searched EDCodex for the word PowerPlay. Atm there is one tool and one thread for it. You might be interested in the tool "Ed-Map.eu - Galaxy's Systems & Power Play". Part of the description: visualize Power Play influences .

I know there is another tool but the author wanted to stop its development and asked for volunteers. Forgot to directly put it in EDCodex and now can't find it back in the forums. If somebody knows about the PP tool , please sent me a PM OR even better add it directly to EDCodex.

Thanks for the references!

 

[Ralph Vargr]

I haven't used trading tools very much. I just went by trade classifications, and learning a small part of the fringe area where I hang out. I only traded enough to feed my small ship construction and exploration addictions. Never needed more than a T-6, named Mootilda, to make the cash. It did take a while, though. Bonus was that I ground my rep up with all the local factions in the process.

I think the OP complaint is more directed towards trading as a playstyle, then the shared tools for it. As far as trading goes, I've pages of handwritten notes, and a primitive Excel spreadsheet as a result of my travels.

EDDiscovery and EDSM are godsends. They provide the functions I would like to see made for explorers.

 

[OamodSias]

I'm glad I could be of some help. Have a good look at the trading tools category - section tools and threads.. I'm sure that there are tools which also have a PP component - but its only shown in the (full) description and not in the title or the short description. There are also lots of threads about trading with routes (regular and rares). The whole and sole purpose of EDCodex (website) and its companion thread is to prevent all those gems from being snowed under and giving the tools and their authors the exposure they truly deserve.

Ironically, the EDCodex thread it self is snowed under all the time ;-(
The website has lots of visitors but commanders don't post feedback about EDCodex in the thread. Not sure why....

Try a feedback system on the website?
Add a feeback panel at the bottom of your pages (like the way MS does), with things like "Was this helpful for you? Let us know! Help us make EDCodex better!" perhaps with a star rating.

Speaking of feedback: on the Trade Dangerous page ( http://edcodex.info/?m=tools&entry=12 ) , there's a typo for the required software header, I believe it should say "Python" but it says "Pyton."

 

[wolverine2710]

Is there a tool that works like EDDB but only keeps track of my trade data while still using the shared star data?

I like to tool around backwater areas with little to no trade data, doing missions, until a good trade run reveals itself. Sometimes I want to share that data, to attract others to otherwise empty areas, other times I want to keep it to myself.

Inara has already mentioned by Otis B.

Another tool which should fit your requirements is Trade Dangerous. Its a command line tool but its extremely powerful and fast. It is FAR more then just a trading tool. For those who dislike command line tools there is TradeDangerous GUI front end.. TD is basically a tool where you can manually input all your data - using an editor or the builtin simple editor GUI. If you need shared data use the maddavo plugin to get data from Maddavo's Market Share (MMS).. MMS also gets data from EDDN.. The edapi plugin in TD allows you to retrieve your market data for the station you are docked. This data can OPTIONALLY be send to EDDN - after which its shared with lots of other tools. EDDN has 16 tools which either receive data from it or send data to it.

Trade Computer Extension is also an option but I'm not 100% sure if you can disable uploading data. I've found this in the FAQ

Spoiler

Question: Did TCE gets his data of stations and prices from an online database, or is it a strictly local database?
Answer: The database of TCE is primary local, but you can share your entered data with your friends via FTP too. You only need a FTP server (e.g. a Fritzbox). The access data of the server are enterd into the Option panel and then you have to upload your local database to the server. Thereafter your recorded data got up- and downloaded automatically to the server, when saved. FTP access needs a little more time to save the data, towards local access. It depends mainly on your Internet connection speed.

One more thing, perhaps more suited for coders then end users. EDDN has various value added services, mostly archiving services. Created by commanders not related to EDDN. It allows you to retrieve all or part of the data send through the EDDN network. One example is: EDDN on DynamoDB. If you search for EDDN you will find quite a few more. Start digging ;-) There probably is far more out there then you have discovered by now ;->

 

[Falcon_D]

Hello,

Tbh, my Lego gave me much more freedom of imagination, than any computer game ever did. Managed to play my 1st computer game after my parents managed to save up for a Sinclair ZX81.
1st time I tried Elite, didn't like it (vector graphic ship model, bleh). Preferred Wing Commander.
Now I love the new Elite : Dangerous. I think of the 3rd party tools like how I think of apps on my iPhone. They just make the whole seem much better. I mean, I could just use my iPhone to make calls, send messages, read email and cruise the web just by using the Apps from Apple that come with it. Don't really need anything else. Yet, I have Whatsapp, skype, games, currency converters, etc. Just makes my life easier I guess. Does not mean my lifes in "autopilot."
I'm not in any way condoning cheat apps like aimbots, or autopilot apps. But I like the concept of Coriolis.io or Inara. I like the community sourced trading tools as well. To me it means that there are commanders in this game that look out for the community, not that I always use them. But it is fun. All these 3rd party tools just seem to enlarge the community of E : D beyond the game itself.

Just my 2 cents.

Have fun, fly safe.
Regards.

 

[wolverine2710]

Try a feedback system on the website?
Add a feeback panel at the bottom of your pages (like the way MS does), with things like "Was this helpful for you? Let us know! Help us make EDCodex better!" perhaps with a star rating.

Speaking of feedback: on the Trade Dangerous page ( http://edcodex.info/?m=tools&entry=12 ) , there's a typo for the required software header, I believe it should say "Python" but it says "Pyton."

I've to be careful not to turn this thread into an EDCodex promotion thread ;-)

Thanks for reporting the typo. It has been corrected and now shows Python 3.4. EDCodex is being enhanced after the public release on the 17th of August. Priority one is a REPORT button for every entry. This can be used to report things like abuse (SPAM), bad formatting, typos, recommendations for extra info etc. A rating system is also planned for every entry. As is "user reviews" where commanders can add reviews for a tool.

If you deem it useful feel free to add your feature request in our QA tool, its the "Ask a Question" link or in the EDCodex thread. Perhaps part of the snowed under thing is caused by commanders being good citizens and indeed using the QA link for feature requests.....

 

[Khelder]

I've to be careful not to turn this thread into an EDCodex promotion thread ;-)

Seems to be heading that way.

 

[OamodSias]

What better way to say "that's nice but we don't care about your distaste for 3rd party tools" than to talk about a website that lists 3rd party tools?

 

[Roybe]

Hey, anyone try this trade route finder lately?

It's BOUNCY! BOUNCY! BOUNCY!

http://etn.io/

 

[OamodSias]

Hey, anyone try this trade route finder lately?

It's BOUNCY! BOUNCY! BOUNCY!

http://etn.io/

Saw this the other day, it's very cool.

 

[scorpionarachnid]

Hey you can't call ASTRA a third party, can't imagine flying without her. She does whatever I tell her and runs the ship so smoothly. Also, well it's lonely in space,,,, and I just want to say we are to be married, so she will not be 3rd party anymore!

 

[Khelder]

Hey, anyone try this trade route finder lately?

It's BOUNCY! BOUNCY! BOUNCY!

http://etn.io/

I'm not sure the universe is supposed to... wobble... like that.

 

[wolverine2710]

Hey, anyone try this trade route finder lately?

It's BOUNCY! BOUNCY! BOUNCY!

http://etn.io/

Elite Trade Analyzer (ETN) is indeed very nice tool. Especially the visualization part. Enjoying it quite a bit. I used BPC and TD in the past. BPC has problems lately but TD is still being used quite a lot. Its a marvelous power tool - and as such not for everyone. Most trading tools (ETN, TD) are either directly receiving data from EDDN or use a tool which provides them with EDDN data. MMS being the case for TD.

BUT there are also third party tools which basically replace pen&paper. It can be tools or spreadsheets. No crowd sourcing, just using data you enter (or in 1 case imported with tools like OCR or EDMC). This might be of interest for commanders who like another kind of gameplay and enjoy entering data them selves. In total there are 23 trading tools. The tools just mentioned are:

• Cmdr's Log. Short desc.: A handy replacement for what you would normally do with a pen and paper.
• Elite Trade Calculator. Short desc.: Excel Spreadsheet. Elite Trade Calculator
• Elite Notes. Short desc.:"Elite Notes" is a substitute for pen and paper when recording commodity prices.

Its possible I missed one or perhaps even two pen&paper replacer tools. Though biobob and myself have entered most entries manually and checked them out, it does NOT mean we/I have a complete overview of what is out there. Its getting better by threads like this though......

Update: During the PB and Beta phase of ED there were quite a lot of spreadsheets. Not sure if they are suitable for the full universe we have since the official release of ED. Have NOT been searching for them (time constraints) and adding them to a certain website. Feel free to add them yourself or send me a PM. I think that it would be good to also have a large section of pen&paper tools!!

Crawling back in my cave for a while........

 

[Falcon_D]

Hey you can't call ASTRA a third party, can't imagine flying without her. She does whatever I tell her and runs the ship so smoothly. Also, well it's lonely in space,,,, and I just want to say we are to be married, so she will not be 3rd party anymore!

Congratulations. Amy (my personalized version of VA) and I are happy about your impending nuptials.

 

[S. Belmont]

Yeah, Elite trade net is my weapon of choice, looks good and is simple to use. I started without any third party tool, but after awhile I realized that it was hard to leave a good trade route and go searching for something else. But using same route again and again got boring and became just tedious grind. Third party tools make gameplay more diverse and enjoyable, certainly. I'm not sure if I feel a little guilty of using it, maybe a little...