Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Mk III

[The Wallet Inspector]

Which is why keeping intact not only the modes, but also mode changing, is important

And it's not only based on situation either. Mood plays a large part for many people, and so do how much time they have available to play — people with more time available are more open to unpredictable things happening in game, things that might need more time to properly tackle. Even connection quality plays a part, as many people are only able to play Solo when traveling.



I used to do something similar in WoW; when I was particularly annoyed by a PvP attack, I would lead my opponent in a merry-go-round across the whole map without fighting back. After all, not only I preferred playing with a hybrid Tank/Healer spec often nicknamed Cockroach at the time, I was fairly proficient in PvP and knew how to avoid being killed
(And I would finish by either leading the attacker to neutral NPCs that would attack him — which, for the attacker, meant either allowing the NPCs to kill him or fighting back and losing reputation with that neutral faction — or by doing some kind of suicide run — I got some would-be gankers to kill themselves that way.)

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I would say a 11K+ player group focused on PvE tells otherwise.

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Not sure how well it would work. It's easy to tweak one's networking settings to never see anyone else despite choosing Open, and I believe the kind of people that would do this is exactly the same as the kind of people that would subject themselves to gameplay they don't perceive as fun for the sake of extra rewards (AKA the players that would move from Solo/Group to Open because of incentives to play in Open).

~Well then if there are 11000 people already getting on in a private group, not fighting each other, that seems good enough to me You are using the tools provided to play the game how you want, that is good! No need to take anything away from other players is there? The suggestion that people who want to play in Open be denied the ability to fight each other would kill the game dead within a year. Also FD treat it as Open mode, not PvP mode, so I go with how the game is, not my own interpretation If you want to avoid a fight, and want to stay in Open, then my advice would be to Get Good At The Game... Be Elite..LOL

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

Even the term PvP mode is misleading, it is called "Open" Mode. …

PvP is exactly what the official Open Mode is. Players can almost always attack other players, that's PvP. That doesn't mean they do or have to do it all the time or that it is the only reason to play in that mode.

 

[The Wallet Inspector]

PvP is exactly what the official Open Mode is. Players can almost always attack other players, that's PvP. That doesn't mean they do or have to do it all the time or that it is the only reason to play in that mode.

Either way, PvP is just one playstyle within Open mode.

 

[Roybe]

So you are actually suggesting we do away with any combat at all in the open galaxy, and restrict it all to CQC? So no more PvP Anaconda/Vulture fights between players? Seems like a suggestion that will never get off the ground, but I admire your creativity. As well, the fact you go around complaining calling people "ats" for playing the game as intended is not welcome in a mature discussion. It is a valid way to play the game and this kind of pejorative talk is not helpful.

"FDev needs to get ahead of these problems and just set the whole of Open to 'no friendly fire' and do away with the illusion that PvP has a place in the game in this mode." - PvP does have a place, it is fully supported, and it is its own reward. Thankfully ED accommodated people who want no part of it, by providing them with alternative gamemodes. There is no need to be so offended by other peoples play-styles.

I disagree with your assessment that it is fully supported. It isn't 'supported' at all. It is an afterthought that needs to be removed. If it was supported, there would be some balance to the Justice system, there would be in game rewards given for PvP. There would be bonuses for playing in Open to offset the losses of being killed. None of this exists. All we have is that Players reward themselves, generally through the salty tears of those they destroy, with a very few playing 'fair'. Again, I have no problem with this...and find those tears can be rewarding in and of themselves, but all players have to earn the credits to pay their bounties, their ammo, their damage...and if they die...their ships and insurance in some other manner than PvP. If I am going to have to play something else to be able to PvP I won't wast that time, or others time. I will spend my time doing what is rewarded...collecting and moving PvE trophies to beat other players.

I have actually stated my personal beliefs earlier...I do not care what folks do in the game. I agree that PvP is allowed and the game is played properly by all players. My statement at this point is reflective of the community, its demands, and its beliefs. If there is a competitive area provided for PvP...there is no reason to have RP PvP in the game at all....it is a waste of people's time and efforts which is better spent in the collection of the needed PvE trophies.

 

[The Wallet Inspector]

I disagree with your assessment that it is fully supported. It isn't 'supported' at all. It is an afterthought that needs to be removed. If it was supported, there would be some balance to the Justice system, there would be in game rewards given for PvP. There would be bonuses for playing in Open to offset the losses of being killed. None of this exists. All we have is that Players reward themselves, generally through the salty tears of those they destroy, with a very few playing 'fair'. Again, I have no problem with this...and find those tears can be rewarding in and of themselves, but all players have to earn the credits to pay their bounties, their ammo, their damage...and if they die...their ships and insurance in some other manner than PvP. If I am going to have to play something else to be able to PvP I won't wast that time, or others time. I will spend my time doing what is rewarded...collecting and moving PvE trophies to beat other players.

I have actually stated my personal beliefs earlier...I do not care what folks do in the game. I agree that PvP is allowed and the game is played properly by all players. My statement at this point is reflective of the community, its demands, and its beliefs. If there is a competitive area provided for PvP...there is no reason to have RP PvP in the game at all....it is a waste of people's time and efforts to collect the needed PvE trophies.

"It isn't 'supported' at all"

Yes it is. I can buy an interdiction device, an ingame module, use it to chase another player, then target his powerplant with a laser and destroy them. It is not up for debate it is supported

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"It isn't 'supported' at all"

Yes it is. I can buy an interdiction device, an ingame module, use it to chase another player, then target his powerplant with a laser and destroy them. It is not up for debate it is supported

EDIT : Just to add, if it is not supported, why do FD shadowban people who combat log in PvP?

 

[Cody]

<wanders by> DDSS... ho-hum!

 

[The Wallet Inspector]

<wanders by> DDSS... ho-hum!

Cody, random question. Many years ago I got a copy of FE2, and the save disc was filled with saves form a "Commander Cody". Not you is it?

 

[DarkWalker]

~Well then if there are 11000 people already getting on in a private group, not fighting each other, that seems good enough to me You are using the tools provided to play the game how you want, that is good! No need to take anything away from other players is there? The suggestion that people who want to play in Open be denied the ability to fight each other would kill the game dead within a year.

The one proposing that PvP be removed from Open would be Roybe. What I want is for an additional PvE-only Open mode to be added, so players don't need to use a player-provided solution that, regardless of how dedicated and talented the players behind it are, can never equate an official solution or reach as many players.

Also FD treat it as Open mode, not PvP mode, so I go with how the game is, not my own interpretation If you want to avoid a fight, and want to stay in Open, then my advice would be to Get Good At The Game... Be Elite..LOL

I won't play the PvP game with players that are only interested in ruining the game for me, I won't fight back exactly because that is what those players want, I would rather self-destruct than give those players the satisfaction of fighting me. Not that I would need to

 

[The Wallet Inspector]

The one proposing that PvP be removed from Open would be Roybe. What I want is for an additional PvE-only Open mode to be added, so players don't need to use a player-provided solution that, regardless of how dedicated and talented the players behind it are, can never equate an official solution or reach as many players.


I won't play the PvP game with players that are only interested in ruining the game for me, I won't fight back exactly because that is what those players want, I would rather self-destruct than give those players the satisfaction of fighting me. Not that I would need to

" if I ever venture into Open, I will be sure to have something ready to fire that would kick every other player out of my instance."

So basically you force disconnect from them? I am surprised this is not considered the same as combat logging. Not something I would be proud to admit to lol

 

[Cody]

Many years ago I got a copy of FE2, and the save disc was filled with saves form a "Commander Cody". Not you is it?

<chortles> I've been Commander Cody since BBC Elite - but I still have my copy of FEII here, so it can't be me!

 

[The Wallet Inspector]

<chortles> I've been Commander Cody since BBC Elite - but I still have my copy of FEII here, so it can't be me!

You from the North East at all lol? The game was an original, but also came with a cracked version inside..

 

[Roybe]

"It isn't 'supported' at all"

Yes it is. I can buy an interdiction device, an ingame module, use it to chase another player, then target his powerplant with a laser and destroy them. It is not up for debate it is supported

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EDIT : Just to add, if it is not supported, why do FD shadowban people who combat log in PvP?

Why do they shadow ban players that combat log in Private? Yes. They do. Look up Sandro's statement on combat logging and shadow bans.

Interdictors are necessary, not for PVP, but for PVE...because you have to interdict the NPC's to pirate, bounty hunt, etc. the fact that they can be used for PVP does not support the idea that PVP is a supported game play style...it is allowed...but not rewarded or supported. If you think it is...how long do you think it will take you to get Elite just by PVP'ing in the Open part of the game?

Targeting Power Plants is there to speed up the killing of PVE enemies so that the turn in for PVE trophies is not onerous!


Here's Sandro on combat logging:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=105778&p=1642728&viewfull=1#post1642728

I direct you to these lines:

For clarity’s sake, “combat logging” is when a Commander ungracefully exits the game (e.g. using ALT + F4 then shutting down the game process) to avoid defeat, destruction and damage.

Commanders might use this exploit the moment they are interdicted or the moment before they are about to be destroyed.

Although this is flagged primarily as a multiplayer concern, the issues (and solutions) apply equally to the single player game.

 

[DarkWalker]

So basically you force disconnect from them? I am surprised this is not considered the same as combat logging. Not something I would be proud to admit to lol

Never did, because I've never played in Open; no need to, since Open doesn't have any advantage over the other modes right now. But yeah, the people in this thread have convinced me that the risk of a shadowban is better than having to play with many of the players that are in Open, so if Open ever receives any extrinsic benefit I will be playing there while either blocking other players outright or causing them to disconnect from my instance in case of aggressiveness.

And why should I be ashamed of saying that I will refuse to play with anyone that seeks to destroy the joy others find in the game?

 

[The Wallet Inspector]

Why do they shadow ban players that combat log in Private? Yes. They do. Look up Sandro's statement on combat logging and shadow bans.

Interdictors are necessary, not for PVP, but for PVE...because you have to interdict the NPC's to pirate, bounty hunt, etc. the fact that they can be used for PVP does not support the idea that PVP is a supported game play style...it is allowed...but not rewarded or supported. If you think it is...how long do you think it will take you to get Elite just by PVP'ing in the Open part of the game?

Targeting Power Plants is there to speed up the killing of PVE enemies so that the turn in for PVE trophies is not onerous!

Wow, being shadow-banned for logging in private, sounds canny pathetic log against an NPC. Why play the game at all if that is the case? That aside, PvP is a fully supported feature of Elite Dangerous, it has nothing to do with leveling up. It is the thrill of the chase, and the fight. If you go into Open, you consent to this kind of interaction, as the game stands right now. Until the day FD punish someone for interdicting and attacking another player in open, any other assessment of the situation is simply invalid.

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Never did, because I've never played in Open; no need to, since Open doesn't have any advantage over the other modes right now. But yeah, the people in this thread have convinced me that the risk of a shadowban is better than having to play with many of the players that are in Open, so if Open ever receives any extrinsic benefit I will be playing there while either blocking other players outright or causing them to disconnect from my instance in case of aggressiveness.

And why should I be ashamed of saying that I will refuse to play with anyone that seeks to destroy the joy others find in the game?

"because I've never played in Open" - Yet not a few posts ago you claim to have a special device to kick people out of your instance when you go into open. Hmm, nice try but not buying it

" But yeah, the people in this thread have convinced me that the risk of a shadowban is better than having to play with many of the players that are in Open"

How? Did people threaten to come destroy you in Open? Anyway, if you don;t want to play with them then don't. FD gave you the game modes to avoid this.

"And why should I be ashamed of saying that I will refuse to play with anyone that seeks to destroy the joy others find in the game?"

That is a straw man. If you choose to avoid other players by using legitimate means that is fine, if you want to promote the use of external tools to kick players out of an instance via IP, I reserve the right to say that behavior is inappropriate in an online game, and unlike PvP, is NOT supported behavior as far as ~F~D are concerned. That is why they take punitive measures against commanders who do things like this, and who combat log.

 

[Roybe]

Wow, being shadow-banned for logging in private, sounds canny pathetic log against an NPC. Why play the game at all if that is the case? That aside, PvP is a fully supported feature of Elite Dangerous, it has nothing to do with leveling up. It is the thrill of the chase, and the fight. If you go into Open, you consent to this kind of interaction, as the game stands right now. Until the day FD punish someone for interdicting and attacking another player in open, any other assessment of the situation is simply invalid.

You misunderstand the difference between supported and allowed. it is allowed and acceptable to play this way. However, the game does not support people that want to PvP...that support is provided through other means....RES hunting, trading, etc. PVP is a net loss to all participants...a different way to look at this is that economically, it punishes players for engaging in the activity.

 

[The Wallet Inspector]

You misunderstand the difference between supported and allowed. it is allowed and acceptable to play this way. However, the game does not support people that want to PvP...that support is provided through other means....RES hunting, trading, etc. PVP is a net loss to all participants...economically, it punishes players for engaging in the activity.

"economically, it punishes players for engaging in the activity."

Perhaps, but that is an in-game decision, not an actual punishment against you for what amounts to cheating. Also, you may not be aware, but there is a lot to gain in Powerplay from destroying a Cmdr with a computer full of Merits. It helps your power, and is very satisfying Funnily enough, they are all happy to die playing the game, none that I met ever logged or banned me via IP.

EDIT: Also, if people in Open "destroy your Joy", then I will mention for the tenth time, they provided some other game modes so you can still feel joyful whilst playing.

 

[Philip Coutts]

Okay folks once again a lot of clean up has had to be done to this thread. Quit with the personal insults and name calling please and discuss the topic in a civil manner.

 

[The Wallet Inspector]

so if Open ever receives any extrinsic benefit I will be playing there while either blocking other players outright or causing them to disconnect from my instance in case of aggressiveness.

Oh wow, so you admit that if FD ever made a benefit to playing in Open (like say they did with the Nvidia Open only competition), you would be happy to use your external tools to ban other players? Again, I will say, I am disappointed you would admit to such behavior.

 

[Roybe]

"economically, it punishes players for engaging in the activity."

Perhaps, but that is an in-game decision, not an actual punishment against you for what amounts to cheating. Also, you may not be aware, but there is a lot to gain in Powerplay from destroying a Cmdr with a computer full of Merits. It helps your power, and is very satisfying Funnily enough, they are all happy to die playing the game, none that I met ever logged or banned me via IP.

EDIT: Also, if people in Open "destroy your Joy", then I will mention for the tenth time, they provided some other game modes so you can still feel joyful whilst playing.

Somehow...you keep missing the point that I enjoy Open and PvP...however, it has come to be meaningless in the scheme of the game. I play PP in Open and have yet to be interdicted once by a real player....the NPC's are mildly annoying. And this is my whole point. There are so few PVP players in the game...and when you meet one they only get in your way, slow you down, and cost you time and money. There is no upside for playing against them. Why bother? Reward me for it with more credits or PVE trophies and I will be fine. Without that...PVP is only wasting everyone's time, credit, and efforts. The only reason it exists is because it is allowed. That is at the whim of the developers. With the introduction of CQC it makes sense to change that rule and make CQC the de facto PVP place.

 

[The Wallet Inspector]

Somehow...you keep missing the point that I enjoy Open and PvP...however, it has come to be meaningless in the scheme of the game. I play PP in Open and have yet to be interdicted once by a real player....the NPC's are mildly annoying. And this is my whole point. There are so few PVP players in the game...and when you meet one they only get in your way, slow you down, and cost you time and money. There is no upside for playing against them. Why bother? Reward me for it with more credits or PVE trophies and I will be fine. Without that...PVP is only wasting everyone's time, credit, and efforts. The only reason it exists is because it is allowed. That is at the whim of the developers. With the introduction of CQC it makes sense to change that rule and make CQC the de facto PVP place.

I agree the rewards should be increased, but would this not be construed by many as encouraging griefing? They need to do it in a clever manner, so the rewards for getting bad players is greatly increased, People can still be bad, and that is good (lol), but they will have to pay the price. I am not interested in joining their ranks, I just want them in my universe. And I want to be able to cash in on their frustration Also, they are NEVER EVER going to make the Open world PvE only, and restrict combat to CQC. It does not "Make sense" in any rational way. It will destroy the game, and people will leave in their tens of thousands when the alternatives begin to mature. So let us keep things real...