Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Mk III

[Seonid]

And personally I'd like to see more aggressive security forces. Once you become a faction-wide criminal, your notoriety should mean that security actively hunts you and doesn't mess about with scanning you - they interdict you and come in guns blazing! Stations would also be alerted to you, making docking with stations of that faction very difficult if not impossible.

This would be awesome, more so if I could rep, but hey.

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

The problem with pirates as far as I can see is they only really seem interested in one sided combat against non combat ships.

Even if the game properly supported wings going after the pirates that just doesn't seem to be what they want.

Which seems a shame.

Am I missing something? That's the whole point of piracy, to target non combat ships. The combat ones tend not to carry cargo. That's like saying traders have no interest in salvaging cargo from signal sources.

Edit: I did miss something, rereading it you meant to say blockaders not pirates. Blockading is not a form of piracy.

 

[ianw]

Am I missing something? That's the whole point of piracy, to target non combat ships. The combat ones tend not to carry cargo. That's like saying traders have no interest in salvaging cargo from signal sources.

I'm talking from the point of view of making the encounters fun - in a game - for all participants not just the aggressors. The structure of the game and the way many "pirates" exploit it pretty much guarantees they can what they want to others without having to suffer what others might like to do to them.

You know it's only pretend piracy right?

 

[Soliluna]

I'm talking from the point of view of making the encounters fun - in a game - for all participants not just the aggressors. The structure of the game and the way many "pirates" exploit it pretty much guarantees they can what they want to others without having to suffer what others might like to do to them.

You know it's only pretend piracy right?

You know, pirates pirate cargo... combat ships don't typically carry cargo... so it makes sense that they do not attack combat fitted ships. There is little gain. If you're not having fun with pirates attacking you, you must really hate NPC interdictions.

 

[[VR] Frank_G]

Am I missing something? That's the whole point of piracy, to target non combat ships. The combat ones tend not to carry cargo. That's like saying traders have no interest in salvaging cargo from signal sources.

Edit: rereading you meant to say blockaders not pirates. Blockading is not a form of piracy.

I hate it, but i have to agree on the pirate term . Money taking meets money making...

But ramming other players around stations has nothing to do with piracy... It is senseless destruction that serves noone. Its not even a blockade. That should be considered by those who act that way or plan such things under the hood of a player event.

 

[ianw]

You know, pirates pirate cargo... combat ships don't typically carry cargo... so it makes sense that they do not attack combat fitted ships. There is little gain. If you're not having fun with pirates attacking you, you must really hate NPC interdictions.

I do have fun with pirates interdicting me when I'm in my Anaconda because I'm guaranteed to escape - well when I say fun I mean it doesn't bother me. The outcome is entirely predictable so not really fun.

On the other hand melting NPCs that interdict is much more fun by comparison.

Does that answer your question (actually it was more of an erroneous statement than a question but you get my drift I'm sure)?

 

[Scudmungus]

Mi tinkin piracy needin som granularity. Atm piracy very coarse - binary.

Catch dem - yuh gat dem - unless dem HW outt dere.
Nah catch dem? - ..yuh gat nottin.

Wi gat to mek gettin cargo fram piratin easier an more reliable. Nah aal de cargo - som. Also gat to give trader betta options to flee dan just HW GO! Ideal scenario: Pirate gat slice of cargo wid trader runnin fah life - alive.

Som tings wi add:

- betta ways to slow HW runnin. Knowin trader can HW run causin alotta pirates to get aggressive real quick. Truth dis gonna help killers kill. Dis nah piracy problem. Dem wantin to kill gonna kill. Wantin to mek tings harder fah dem? Empowa Bounty Hunters - wo now do seım - also empowa Security forces.

- Scrap hatch breaker. Dem tings nah fun just pain.

- Mek shootin cargo hatch give betta returns, mekin cargo spill out more readily. De intent is to mek it easier fah pirates to get som cargo. Som, nah aal. Trickle of cargo. Wi gat dis now, ickle. Build on it. Makin robbin less frustratin - blow dem up? Get nottin. Tinkin killers gonna kill afta anyway? See above.

- Mek tradin ship betta. Tuffa. Nah shield tuff. Hull tuff. Tinkin most trader gonna be able to run run away. Dis ok - pirate gettin cargo from poppin easier-to-pop cargo hatch.

Wot we gat fram dis? Truth - Trader maybi gettin away more often. Truth - Pirates gettin more reliable rewards fram piracy.Nah masta plan. Just som tinkin. Ride de road!

 

[Marra Morgan]

What are you views on this idea?

"if someone has a bounty above a certain amount (say $5000) than he can't sell his ship, modules, or even re-arm/repair in a civilized sector. He can't dock in stations only outposts, and if his ship is too big.. he's in trouble. BUT.. if he can get to a station that is controlled by pirates then he can.. though the price would probably be higher than normal to get repaired. Maybe even have station personnel who can take care of their bounty for a hefty cut allowing him access back into civilized sectors.

I mean if someone wants to play as a pirate, lets make it at least partly realistic.

I don't understand being "hostile" to a system and the station allowing me to dock and fully repair, rearm and everything."

I'm all for it, with one slight (ok, major ) alteration - those penalties should only apply to the faction you've offended and racked up the bounty with.

If the controlling faction in a system wants your blood, its rival factions within that system may not necessarily have a problem with you. Minor factions within a system are always in competition for power with each other, so some may welcome your actions against their rivals and be willing to harbour you. We all know that real governments and corporations turn a blind-eye to illegal behaviour that benefits them or undermines the competition - it should be rife in Elite's cut-throat dystopia

Government type and system security level could factor into all this too - a low security dictatorship would have much more blind-eye-turning than a high-security democracy, for example. And of course, Anarchists do not ask questions!

I think that criminality has lots of shades of grey that make it interesting and appealing to players - making them realistic with meaningful consequences would enrich both the criminal and law-abiding players, especially in Open play.

 

[Skyrun]

Awww....merge happened!

Oh well, fun while it lasted!

Unofortunatly nobody notices anymore the poll. Almost no votes anymore in the last hours.

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

I'm talking from the point of view of making the encounters fun - in a game - for all participants not just the aggressors. The structure of the game and the way many "pirates" exploit it pretty much guarantees they can what they want to others without having to suffer what others might like to do to them.

You know it's only pretend piracy right?

I'm all for making encounters fun for all, but that's easier said than done. There's very few ways to make getting blown up in a massively weak ship fun.

One thing I don't want to see is legit piracy suffer from all the cries of "we need to punish 'pirates', they have it too easy". It's already a pain and tedious. It doesn't need to be made worse.

And when you say piracy is only pretend, what do you mean?

 

[ianw]

I'm all for making encounters fun for all, but that's easier said than done. There's very few ways to make getting blown up in a massively weak ship fun.

One thing I don't want to see is legit piracy suffer from all the cries of "we need to punish 'pirates', they have it too easy". It's already a pain and tedious. It doesn't need to be made worse.

I think you've nailed it there Jordan "There's very few ways to make getting blown up in a massively weak ship fun."

That's precisely why it shouldn't be expected that people are always up for it.

I really can't see any way it will ever work as it is - because some people genuinely believe that someone's presence in open means they consent to PVP - whereas many in open clearly don't consent to PVP.

And when you say piracy is only pretend, what do you mean?

I was being flippant. On reflection as I consider you to be one of the good bad guys I should retract it, so I apologise.

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

Mi tinkin piracy needin som granularity. Atm piracy very coarse - binary.

Catch dem - yuh gat dem - unless dem HW outt dere.
Nah catch dem? - ..yuh gat nottin.

Wi gat to mek gettin cargo fram piratin easier an more reliable. Nah aal de cargo - som. Also gat to give trader betta options to flee dan just HW GO! Ideal scenario: Pirate gat slice of cargo wid trader runnin fah life - alive.

Som tings wi add:

- betta ways to slow HW runnin. Knowin trader can HW run causin alotta pirates to get aggressive real quick. Truth dis gonna help killers kill. Dis nah piracy problem. Dem wantin to kill gonna kill. Wantin to mek tings harder fah dem? Empowa Bounty Hunters - wo now do seım - also empowa Security forces.

- Scrap hatch breaker. Dem tings nah fun just pain.

- Mek shootin cargo hatch give betta returns, mekin cargo spill out more readily. De intent is to mek it easier fah pirates to get som cargo. Som, nah aal. Trickle of cargo. Wi gat dis now, ickle. Build on it. Makin robbin less frustratin - blow dem up? Get nottin. Tinkin killers gonna kill afta anyway? See above.

- Mek tradin ship betta. Tuffa. Nah shield tuff. Hull tuff. Tinkin most trader gonna be able to run run away. Dis ok - pirate gettin cargo from poppin easier-to-pop cargo hatch.

Wot we gat fram dis? Truth - Trader maybi gettin away more often. Truth - Pirates gettin more reliable rewards fram piracy.Nah masta plan. Just som tinkin. Ride de road!

Well said, I agree with most of it. one point of objection tho.

I may hate the hatch breaker, but I don't want to see it removed. It has it's uses, it's just not very good atm. It's useful in ships that lack the agility to reliably get underneath to target the hatch, aka bigger ships. I'd rather see it improved upon rather than scrapped.

 

[Jockey79]

Unofortunatly nobody notices anymore the poll. Almost no votes anymore in the last hours.

The poll was closed when the merge happened.

 

[Seonid]

I may hate the hatch breaker, but I don't want to see it removed.

I've spent some time testing them as well, it's fairly clunky and unreliable in terms of implementation currently. The other way to look at it, is that actual piracy is about making money and until such time the NPC traders start carrying cargo of an equivalent value to players, there's not really much point in pirating NPC's. Obviously some pirates will target players for the interaction anyway, but it would still be a step.

 

[Jockey79]

I've spent some time testing them as well, it's fairly clunky and unreliable in terms of implementation currently. The other way to look at it, is that actual piracy is about making money and until such time the NPC traders start carrying cargo of an equivalent value to players, there's not really much point in pirating NPC's. Obviously some pirates will target players for the interaction anyway, but it would still be a step.

I was going to be a pirate when I started ED.
After a few weeks of NPCs - I became a trader / miner / bounty hunter (NPCs).

I did think about a jack of all trades, but piracy (NPC), salvaging and exploring really just don't pay enough to cover themselves.
So once I have enough resources I will do them as hobbies, but as professions they need work.

 

[Scudmungus]

Well said, I agree with most of it. one point of objection tho.

I may hate the hatch breaker, but I don't want to see it removed. It has it's uses, it's just not very good atm. It's useful in ships that lack the agility to reliably get underneath to target the hatch, aka bigger ships. I'd rather see it improved upon rather than scrapped.

Aye, mi agree an now seein de wisdom of keepin dem. Improve dem. Maybe have point defence shoot dem also. Maybi nah.

 

[Jockey79]

Aye, mi agree an now seein de wisdom of keepin dem. Improve dem. Maybe have point defence shoot dem also. Maybi nah.

Last time I checked, point defence did shoot at cargo limpets. So it was another reason to not bother with them.

Shields coming back online destroyed any attached ones as well.

 

[Scudmungus]

Last time I checked, point defence did shoot at cargo limpets. So it was another reason to not bother with them.

Shields coming back online destroyed any attached ones as well.

Ha! Learn somtin criss everi day

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

I think you've nailed it there Jordan "There's very few ways to make getting blown up in a massively weak ship fun."

That's precisely why it shouldn't be expected that people are always up for it.

It's true of any game. You can't make slamming your head against a massively stronger opponent fun. Unless it's a rouge like, or dark souls.

It would be better if players were matched according to skill and power level, but such a huge galaxy that's unlikely. So for now there's nothing that can be done.

I really can't see any way it will ever work as it is - because some people genuinely believe that someone's presence in open means they consent to PVP - whereas many in open clearly don't consent to pvp.

It's a false assumption that you need someone's consent for pvp. The way FD made the game, you don't need anyone's consent to attack. You just have to be in the same instance as them.

I think there's just as much confusion coming from the pve side. They think, "I'm a clean, non-aligned, trader/whatever profession I shouldn't be attacked". Imo that's just as bad as the "I'm going to kill everyone for lulz" thinking. My understanding of elite is, there's no right, wrong, justified, fair, or unfair. There's only actions (yours or others) and consequences (for you, or others).

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

… There's only actions (yours or others) and consequences (for you, or others).

Consequences?