Powerplay SNIPING in Powerplay

[chagnampra]

I am not a member of the power which got notably sniped in the final hours of the last cycle (ALD), although my own power has seen its fair share over the passed few weeks (Mahon); but it is a reminder AGAIN of how Powerplay is unfairly loaded against the fortifier in favour of the underminer.

Allowing underminers to hoard merits, only to drop them at the last minute (which gives fortifiers an extremely limited chance to respond with fortification merits) seems unbalanced.

Surely a more balanced system would be to put a limit on how many merits an underminer can retain before cashing them in? How about 3000?

Also, so-called '5th columning' by members of rival powers posing as allies, preparing awful systems to sabotage a power in the last few hours of a cycle has become boring and, again, there is little defense. Not sure what can be done to improve how Powerplay works in this respect - unless this is the way FD WANT Powerplay to work?!

Come on, FD - we all know you want powers undermining powers, skullduggery and intrigue in this Powerplay system of yours; but if the system isn't balanced appropriately and fairly between defense and attack, more and more people are going to give up on it altogether as a waste of time and effort.

EDIT: This thread has prompted some good discussion and led to some good arguments for and against merit bomb sniping in PP undermining. Below is a comment I made later on in this thread, updating my thoughts on the subject.

...on reflection, I do agree that sniping is a valid tactic in PP. However, it is too unrealistic to imagine that a power would not be aware of at least some enemy activity in its control systems - never mind the huge amounts of undermining which leads to a sniping merit bomb; which is why I think there needs to be some sort of local, or even global, need feed which can provide a partial 'heads-up' to highlight potential trouble spots.

Some might argue: why should a defending power have any help at all in combating sniping? Frankly, I'm interested in balance and realism, from a gameplay perspective. If sniping is truly the only effective way that a smaller power can combat a larger power, then maybe there needs to be an overhaul of the Powerplay system? Maybe both underminers and fortifiers need to have more options at their disposal? Merit bomb sniping is fast becoming the single path of least resistance.

On the subject of 5th columning... Well, this is still very much an area which needs addressing by FD. Currently there is still virtually no realistic defence against an enemy player pledged to your power, pushing a bad system to prepare and expand purely to harm your power's CC reserve and (potentially) pushing it into turmoil. This may not always be done in the final hours of the cycle (although this has happened to Mahon on more than one occasion), but it sure is a tactic that is as effective as undermining via 'sniping'. As it stands, it is an unbalanced gameplay tactic.

 

[chagnampra]

Ok, maybe everyone's given up on Powerplay already!

 

[Snarfbuckle]

Ok, maybe everyone's given up on Powerplay already!

I'll go back and participate in PP when they make each faction DIFFERENT and missions different.

Right now they are all the same, boring and a merit grind instead of something FUN.

Really, why do a PIRATE like Archon Delaine function like everyonee else.

He is a wanted criminal and warlord - he should take over other crime syndicates in anarchy systems and create tortuga style systems and gain a majority of his income from EXPLOITED systems.

He should never have a FIXED HQ but rather the one which is the most profitable (from exploitation) at the time.

He should give 30 merits per stolen CARGO not to blatantly kill other faction members and make himself noticed.

 

[Raile]

Is this another griefing thread, because seriously, this isn't funny anymore.

 

[chagnampra]

Is this another griefing thread, because seriously, this isn't funny anymore.

No-one mentioned griefing. Perhaps you should re-read the OP again? It's about balance in Powerplay mechanics.

 

[chagnampra]

I'll go back and participate in PP when they make each faction DIFFERENT and missions different.

Right now they are all the same, boring and a merit grind instead of something FUN.

Really, why do a PIRATE like Archon Delaine function like everyonee else.

He is a wanted criminal and warlord - he should take over other crime syndicates in anarchy systems and create tortuga style systems and gain a majority of his income from EXPLOITED systems.

He should never have a FIXED HQ but rather the one which is the most profitable (from exploitation) at the time.

He should give 30 merits per stolen CARGO not to blatantly kill other faction members and make himself noticed.

I know what you mean. A lot of the powers are more 'cut & paste' in terms of gameplay functionality. It's a shame, though, that Powerplay isn't more balanced because it can be very demoralising fortifying week in, week out, only to be sniped at the last minute by a handful of underminers / 5th columnists.

And if I sound bitter, that's because I actually like what Poweplay brings to the table: a political landscape to the galaxy and a way to form alliances; a context in which we all explore our own individual stories. It's just that, in its current format, it's more frustratingly broken and too much of a pointless grind to be fun.

 

[Trafalgar Law]

I think the easiest solution to this problem is some kind of intelligence reports that indicate hotspots of enemy action. Ideally this should be in a separate tab for each power but you could use Galnet to give the information. I doubt this would have saved ALD from turmoil this week but there were at least three systems that could have been easily fortified during the final hours if we had known they were being attacked (Birite, Tewi and Caria).
.

It's a shame, though, that Powerplay isn't more balanced because it can be very demoralising fortifying week in, week out, only to be sniped at the last minute by a handful of underminers / 5th columnists.

And if I sound bitter, that's because I actually like what Poweplay brings to the table: a political landscape to the galaxy and a way to form alliances; a context in which we all explore our own individual stories. It's just that, in its current format, it's more frustratingly broken and too much of a pointless grind to be fun.

I have to say I feel the same way about powerplay, I really like the concept and that it gives me a reason to fly my spaceship and pew-pew things, but there are a lot of very frustrating issues that often combine to make me feel like I'm wasting my time.

 

[xondk]

At least the roll over day of PP is a weekday and not weekend, can you imagine if it rolled over a friday or saturday?


But yeah as Trafalgar Law mentions, the thing that would help Elite a lot, is basically allowing you to see a hotspot map of various player activity, Powerplay, (amount of people last 24 hours) and such, with filters, for example if the size of the bubble could have those filters, it could easily help you figure out where to go and not go, and that data is available already the system traffic.

 

[chagnampra]

I think the easiest solution to this problem is some kind of intelligence reports that indicate hotspots of enemy action. Ideally this should be in a separate tab for each power but you could use Galnet to give the information. I doubt this would have saved ALD from turmoil this week but there were at least three systems that could have been easily fortified during the final hours if we had known they were being attacked (Birite, Tewi and Caria).

I think this is a very do-able idea. Surely FDev (if you are listening?) could do something like this to at least start to redress the balance a little.

 

[Sandro Sammarco]

Hello Commander chagnampra!

Limiting Powerplay voucher capacity.

I think is a *great* idea. I'm going to look into the feasibility of doing it.

Obviously, there is a counter argument that it forces more "busy" work for Commander's undermining, but my personal take is that it could provide a *much* bigger benefit than cost.

Top banana, Commander!

 

[Skyrun]

It would also help to see the potential new opposition and fortification and not only the actual one.
So all vouches which are not yet delivered are potential ones.
So it would be easy to see the current situation and act accordingly.

 

[Bokugo]

I think giving like the top 10 commanders in a pp faction the choice to pick which systems to focus on would be good solution. I doubt anyone is going to go against their power's best interest when it takes a lot of time and effort into getting that power. It also gives back that competition without it feeling as bad as before with only the top 50% getting anything for their effort. Normal members will still provide "influence" to essentially nominate a system for the leaders to pick from.
I think getting rid of many of the automatic processes and handing them over to the top players would be a a nice compromise.

 

[Quineloe]

a weekly deadline simply is not a very good thing. It should be much more dynamic than that. If a system is at above 100% undermining for 24 hours, it should flip or whatever it is that happens. Fortifying doesn't actually raise a "Fortification bar" but just lowers the Undermining bar.

 

[NavyBee]

Surely a more balanced system would be to put a limit on how many merits an underminer can retain before cashing them in? How about 3000?

If this can be implemented as a quick fix, then it would be fine. It would impede long range undermining, but may be worth it.

 

[[VR] Deggial]

It would also help to see the potential new opposition and fortification and not only the actual one.
So all vouches which are not yet delivered are potential ones.
So it would be easy to see the current situation and act accordingly.

I strongly agree with this - in fact, I proposed something alike quite a while ago.

Simply display those 'potential' numbers in a lighter color on top of the already submitted (and thus 'real') powerplay points.
If a commander is destroyed without submitting his contribution, his powerplay is subtracted from the potential opposition/fortification.
If he finally submits his points, they are not longer "potential", but count towards the particular goal.

What I dislike regarding the 'Limiting Powerplay voucher capacity' (LPVC) is, that the undermined systems might be far away from you next control system.
If the LPVC is small enough, many (tedious) trips are necessary to "empty" your bucket.
If the LPVC is large, it might make no difference in respect to the sniping.

Of course, it all depends on the final numbers. 1000 (or even the proposed 3000) storable powerplay might still be reasonable in respect to both goals.
However, it is another value to balance well. With the "potential powerplay" proposal, no balancing would be necessary at all.

 

[Skyrun]

Hello Commander chagnampra!

Limiting Powerplay voucher capacity.

I think is a *great* idea. I'm going to look into the feasibility of doing it.

Obviously, there is a counter argument that it forces more "busy" work for Commander's undermining, but my personal take is that it could provide a *much* bigger benefit than cost.

Top banana, Commander!

It is not that great. You still have no defence against lately delivered vouches. It would be better to have a clear visibility with potential undermining (not yet delivered but existing vouches)

 

[Ziljan]

I was heading to my control system to turn in some Merits, and got very skillfully interdicted by a wing of 4 Winterians. They managed to keep me from landing at that control site by interdicting me about 10 times, and I was forced to highwake from the system twice. They didn't manage to kill me however, so really I just wasted the time of 4 CMDRs for 40 minutes while they wasted only 40 minutes of a single CMDR with no kill, and lost Merits.


I guess the point of this post is that this little exchange is the ONLY fun I've had since PP began, and it's really sad that there aren't really many reasons for "PvP" like this to actually happen.

 

[veep]

ED gameplay needs fundamental redesigns. Shame it's likely not going to happen.

The dreaded background sim is simplistic, community goals are a band-aid and powerplay is a boardgame. To take Elite in the direction it was pitched and envisioned, the boardgame and the band-aid need to be thrown out and the simulation has to be put in a state deserving of the name.

 

[chagnampra]

Hello Commander chagnampra!

Limiting Powerplay voucher capacity.

I think is a *great* idea. I'm going to look into the feasibility of doing it.

Obviously, there is a counter argument that it forces more "busy" work for Commander's undermining, but my personal take is that it could provide a *much* bigger benefit than cost.

Top banana, Commander!

Cheers Sandro! I'm glad the Dev team are still looking at ways of creating a fairer system within the framework of Powerplay. I honestly do like Powerplay and look forward to seeing it develop in the future. It just saddens me that myself, and many others (judging by some comments I've read), have been feeling a little burnout lately due to the issues already stated in the OP. Anyway, thanks for the response.

 

[Sandro Sammarco]

Hello Commander Skyrun!

I respectfully disagree. Currently a system could look completely safe until the last hour, at which point all vouchers could be traded in.

With a suitably restrained limit on how many vouchers a Commander could carry at any one time, Commanders would not be able to hide progressive undermining, giving fortifying Commanders to see the growing threat.

I can't really see any major downside to this at all, at the moment. It certainly seems better than being able to offload potentially an entire cycle's worth of undermining vouchers at the last moment.

Whilst it would be great to have super visibility of voucher progress at all time, there are various limitations that prevent us from doing so.