Powerplay SNIPING in Powerplay

[FAlava]

What I want is a true fortify vs undermining balance.

If you undermine you can do it all day long.

If I fortify, being rank 5, I have to wait 30 mins to get 50 fortification packages. Or pay 500.000 CR.

Every week I spend my 50M salary fortifiying, and my game time waiting. It's boring as hell.

This is a game, it should be fun.

So here is my two easy proposed solutions:

A) When you undermine and get 50 merits and cash the vouchers. You have to wait 30 mins before cashing another 50 merits. Or pay 500.000 CR
B) Remove the **redacted** 30 mins timer. Let me fortify all day long if I want to.

Alternatives:

A) If fortifying is like trading, make me buy fortify packages, and sell them at the control centers for a small profit.
B) If fortifying is like combat, make me able to fortify my systems killing hostile NPCs.

Thanks!

 

[Nick S]

Hello Commanders!

I understand the argument that it will be harder for smaller powers to attack larger powers successfully. A reasonable point.

I also understand that some of the concepts behind sniping (coordinated attacks and what have you) are not necessarily bad.

We've been discussing this in the office for a bit and we're checking some numbers.

Feel free to keep up the discussion, some very interesting points raised. Obviously nothing is going to happen right away, there are some other options to look at as well.

I'll keep you informed.

Thank you, Sandro.

 

[dlichterman]

Hello Commanders!

I understand the argument that it will be harder for smaller powers to attack larger powers successfully. A reasonable point.

I also understand that some of the concepts behind sniping (coordinated attacks and what have you) are not necessarily bad.

We've been discussing this in the office for a bit and we're checking some numbers.

Feel free to keep up the discussion, some very interesting points raised. Obviously nothing is going to happen right away, there are some other options to look at as well.

I'll keep you informed.

I went ahead and finally registered on the forum just so I could post here. Please please please do not up undermining. CMDR John Casey and others have had good ideas on how to solve the problem without limits.

Remember, ask the question "What is the problem you are trying to solve". Putting a limit on merits will not solve sniping - as mentioned the larger powers have enough players so they could still do it.

Echoing the quote from Leon Markus, if you make this change, I am probably done with PP. You can't make it impossible for smaller powers to survive.

 

[CMDR Arilou Lalee'lay]

So only now it's a problem . Taking away the ability to mount any kind of surprise attack seems like a kneejerk reaction to me.

 

[Imperial Guard]

Powerplay is for droids As a combat guy without any cargo space at all, when powerplay first started I thought great. I can escort friendly CMDRs delivering fortification supplies to far off places. I can patrol friendly control systems to intercept enemy CMDRs that come there to undermine. I can try to blockade enemy control systems or home world to make it more difficult for them to fortify their own stuff. I realise now the futility of this. Powerplay success is just about delivering more leaflets in solo mode then they do over a week long cycle. My main goal is to sink as much enemy CMDR tonnage as possible. It's war afterall.

 

[yul7896]

Hello Commanders!

I understand the argument that it will be harder for smaller powers to attack larger powers successfully. A reasonable point.

I also understand that some of the concepts behind sniping (coordinated attacks and what have you) are not necessarily bad.

We've been discussing this in the office for a bit and we're checking some numbers.

Feel free to keep up the discussion, some very interesting points raised. Obviously nothing is going to happen right away, there are some other options to look at as well.

I'll keep you informed.

Not 'necessarily' bad? Leaving some room for saying some form of a coordinated assault is bad? Or am I reading too much into this. I would like to hear 1 one 1 valid argument as to why every coordinated assault by players could be construed as anything but adding to the players EDxperience.

Oh and trust us, Mr. Sammarco, this discussion will continue.

We appreciate all communication, and of course any information you can pass along. Thank you for being active with the community, even if I think you guys are extremely out of touch with it.

 

[Bulwei]

I created an account to reply on this thread.

a limit to merits carried, its already in the game. You die you lose them.
I personally have lost 4k merits because I opened fire by mistake in a station ( Yup what a stupid thing to do ) and that was when it was 10 merits per kill. I didn't complain I didn't whine I just got back out and started again.
that is the risk of holding on to merits. you can lose them to a simple error. it actually makes it way more fun to fly in open with large amounts of merits the risk is greater

It seems to me that the changes so far to PP have all been because the loudest voices of the empire are being listened to and all of us smaller powers are only there for the empires amusement.

I will seriously consider whether I will continue my participation in PP if a change of this nature goes ahead.
this old grey wolf is getting tired of the bias that seems to be occurring.

 

[CMDRKNac]

Please Sandro, address the real problem plaguing PP since day one: bad preparations. While I welcome a fix to sniping (although the proposed solution is a band-aid, the real solution would be crediting merits as soon as an enemy ship is blow up, but I guess 'technical limitations' will get in the way), you have to look at fifth columning and merit grinders pushing awful systems. It's becoming stupid: people deflecting to enemy powers to outprepare the fifth columns to avoid those expansions.

I'll copy & paste a couple suggestions I did in reddit, but I'm sure you can come with more and better solutions. this took me one minute of thinking, so I'm sure there are better solutions:

unless we are assuming that the fictional 'powers' (the characters) are rather stupid, there is a way to at least limit the damage 5th columns can do: don't let prepare systems which give real negative income in anyway.
why the hell would Mahon (the character) expand to Wolf 412 or Hooriayan if those systems will not give any income worth mentioning!?
Or a better way yet: a system upkeep should be a function not only of distance but also of exploited systems, and if a system is not being exploited because it's already exploited by an other control system of the same power, it's discounted as exploited system (and the corresponding overhead is reduced by a proportional fraction).
There you go, fifth columns effectively dead. If you want betrayal inside a faction find an other way to do it, the current one is not fun and makes zero sense at all (unless we assume the power characters are morons).

 

[VerneAsimov]

I agree with the OP's point but... seriously?

The only time this problem gets acknowledged is when ALD gets sniped. No one wanted to do anything about it until ALD got hit by it. That's a little ridiculous.

If you're going to fix this, you at least have to acknowledge that Powerplay is thought to be run by player groups but is actually run by mindless grinders. We have no control over them. Give it to us or don't reward mindlessness.

 

[Brimstone]

Hello Commanders!

I would think that a number in the range of 500 - 1000 would be an appropriate start. It's a decent amount of vouchers.

In fairness, any limit that isn't sky high should cause a significant reduction in sniping capability.

For undermining, a cap of 600-900 merits seems reasonable until you need to cash them in. That translates to 20-30 ships respectively.

 

[yul7896]

I created an account to reply on this thread.

a limit to merits carried, its already in the game. You die you lose them.
I personally have lost 4k merits because I opened fire by mistake in a station ( Yup what a stupid thing to do ) and that was when it was 10 merits per kill. I didn't complain I didn't whine I just got back out and started again.
that is the risk of holding on to merits. you can lose them to a simple error. it actually makes it way more fun to fly in open with large amounts of merits the risk is greater

It seems to me that the changes so far to PP have all been because the loudest voices of the empire are being listened to and all of us smaller powers are only there for the empires amusement.

I will seriously consider whether I will continue my participation in PP if a change of this nature goes ahead.
this old grey wolf is getting tired of the bias that seems to be occurring.

I would like to add some relevant context here.

Bulwei is one of the most well-respected and influential actors for our Power. He is almost single-handedly responsible for the development and growth of organizing Fortification in Winter. His words should not be taken lightly. The fact that he created an account on this forum, just to state his argument, should speak volumes to the gravity of this issue.

 

[yul7896]

For undermining, a cap of 600-900 merits seems reasonable until you need to cash them in. That translates to 20-30 ships respectively.

I couldn't disagree more.

For a dedicated, well organized underminer, this translates to half an hour to an hour of pew pew. Most major undermining requires long distance travel. If one has to take the time to travel because of a merit cap, it really will become more time spent jumping than shooting. There is no possible way this could be good for the game.

 

[Mikalus]

Hello Commander chagnampra!

Limiting Powerplay voucher capacity.

I think is a *great* idea. I'm going to look into the feasibility of doing it.

Obviously, there is a counter argument that it forces more "busy" work for Commander's undermining, but my personal take is that it could provide a *much* bigger benefit than cost.

Top banana, Commander!

I just want my voice to be heard. I think this is a bad idea. Overall the one thing all power play participants agree with is that the change needs to happen to fortification, not to undermining. This makes no sense to me - it makes a part of the game that flows well to become more hesitant and stop/start.

I think it's a bad idea and as a power we've dealt with sniping well for weeks. The only reason this is a problem is because the Imperial power base couldn't be bothered to strategically fortify in anticipation of enemy strategies, but wants the opponents strategy handed to them on a plate.

 

[Imperial Guard]

I'm glad you recognise it as pew pew and not actual combat

 

[Carradin]

Hello Commander chagnampra!

Limiting Powerplay voucher capacity.

I think is a *great* idea. I'm going to look into the feasibility of doing it.

Obviously, there is a counter argument that it forces more "busy" work for Commander's undermining, but my personal take is that it could provide a *much* bigger benefit than cost.

Top banana, Commander!

Might there be a way you could allow defenders to know the allegience of their attackers, as well? One of the major issues with Powerplay at the moment is that not only can you be stealth-attacked, you have no way of telling who actually launched the attack unless they go out and brag about it.

It wouldn't need to be anything special, either. You could, for example, add an extra news item to local stations along the lines of the shipping report, called the 'security report' or something along those lines, which lists the number of ships killed by each power within the system for the last seven days. It neatly gets around the solo/open divide by not caring who the actual players are, just their numbers and which powers they are pledged to.

Then, if you feel someone's been pushing hard to undermine a system, you go to a station there, look at the security report and go "Ah ha! It was those sneaky Mahon guys that were undermining Sothis this week!" upon seeing 37 ship deaths attributed to Edmund Mahon-pledged players.

 

[Cheese Helmet]

The biggest problem with Powerplay is transparency. Everything done and all the numbers calculated is behind this massive wall of smoke, mirrors, and poor game mechanics.

Don't make powerplay an even larger pain in the butt than it already is.

 

[Dubber]

For undermining, a cap of 600-900 merits seems reasonable until you need to cash them in. That translates to 20-30 ships respectively.

when you need 5k to hold onto rank 5 that's daft.

 

[Gran Solo]

Might there be a way you could allow defenders to know the allegience of their attackers, as well? One of the major issues with Powerplay at the moment is that not only can you be stealth-attacked, you have no way of telling who actually launched the attack unless they go out and brag about it.

It wouldn't need to be anything special, either. You could, for example, add an extra news item to local stations along the lines of the shipping report, called the 'security report' or something along those lines, which lists the number of ships killed by each power within the system for the last seven days. It neatly gets around the solo/open divide by not caring who the actual players are, just their numbers and which powers they are pledged to.

Then, if you feel someone's been pushing hard to undermine a system, you go to a station there, look at the security report and go "Ah ha! It was those sneaky Mahon guys that were undermining Sothis this week!" upon seeing 37 ship deaths attributed to Edmund Mahon-pledged players.

That is a fantastic idea. Please FD, make it so!

 

[Rubbernuke]

That is a fantastic idea. Please FD, make it so!

Just colour code the undermining bar with the colour of the opposing power.

 

[yul7896]

Just colour code the undermining bar with the colour of the opposing power.

And if it's every Power, like in Winter, you end up with a Rainbow Bar.