Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Mk III

[Faded Glory]

Cool to know, thx for the info I always considered it a warning though.. Out of interest, when you get to Dangerous rank, anything interesting happen? I am at Master now, and thought Elite got you PF privileges. Does Dangerous have any?

None that I can see.

 

[-Pv-]

"the sentiment on this thread is normally that Solo players are typically happy with the modes, while some Open advocates say that Solo should be chucked (which would force people to play in Open), or sometimes that Open players feel forced to play in Solo..."

Aside from the near misses in the flame wars here by others, I think you are zeroing in on the core points and appreciate the way you phrased this.

1) In the provision of the current modes, the devs have offered us an unequaled flexibility not found in any game on the market of which I could possibly have any interest and
done that at an astonishingly affordable price. A false assumption might be since they gave us all this an affordable price, certainly they can give us all everything else we want at the same price.
2) The game as is may to some people feel like they are being "forced" to play in ways they do not like, but again as in point 1, the flexibility is there to make choices. Buy the game or not. Choose the mode of play.
I suppose you are "forced" to drive the car you bought. That this is some kind of implied coercion on the part of other players to make you buy and play this game, I don't accept.
Regardless of the mode, you can purchase the ship and equipment you want, play the same roles in all the modes, manipulate the AI universe, etc. I like it.
3) As stated, there are players who don't like the current modes who want to "force" (by removing current modes) other players into the style of play they prefer.
Also as succinctly stated in the quote above, I'm not reading a lot of posts here from Solo or Group people asking that Open mode be removed so Solo people can have more fun though I've seen a
couple posts asking that Open be removed to assuage all the moaning.
If your preferred style of play is so good, you should be able to entice me into it, not force me into it. Egads. The "force" word is starting to give me a headache.
4) I can speak as a mostly Solo player I have no problems at all with Open mode people blasting each other to bits in vast numbers. Some day I will play more Open than I do now
and do my share of bit blasting. I played Elite Solo for six years and I'm enjoying the multiplayer aspect of the game.
5) If as an Open player you want more players to join you, then behave. I'll join you. If you're the bully standing in the middle of the sand lot saying no one else can play ball here unless they can beat you up,
then I will go play ball elsewhere and you can play by yourself (maybe that's actually happening.) You go buy up all the sand lots or Matrix yourself into a thousand bullies and I'll still find a way to squeeze out.
6) I have played in Open mode and no human shot at me, so it's not the automatic death sentence one would gather from some exaggerated statements sometimes seen here.
It appears risk can be managed even in Open mode to some observable extent. Some want more management, some want less. Can't please everyone. The devs are always seeking balance and they
will get the balance THEY want regardless of the community opinion. If the game is no longer fun for them to code or no longer profitable because they dumped time and money into edge cases, then the game will die
and there is nothing any of us can do about it. By supporting what is good about the game and promoting it to our friends (that is what I have done) then we give the devs the resources to make this a game
space-based trading/combat lovers cannot refuse.
7) This leaves the more open discussion on a specific Player(s) vs AI multiplayer coop only mode asked to be added. This exists in a more limited form as Private among friends who agree to play coop only.
That it can also be used for both PvAI and PvP is amazing.
The "force" (headache) issue where those playing this so-called PvE may be tempted to complain that their style is now being neglected by the other players, that the vast non-belligerent
community they envisioned is not realized so all the other modes have to be forfeited so they can get what they want. Around and around we go. Remove choices so special interest groups
get more satisfaction. This tread mill really has no end. What special interest satisfaction exists in my country looks a lot like tyranny to me. Eventually you have hundreds of factions
competing against each other for attention and dev resources. "Make MY mode more fun." "Add just this one more feature and I'll be happy. PLEEEEZE!" "You got it just about right except for
this and this and this and this *little* thing that needs fine tuned." Not to mention the uncountable hours needed to test and debug to make sure they didn't break anything in the new mode
while other more fun and new features are languishing. Anyone who hasn't coded a game thinks it's all easy. Just type in a few command and it just WORKS.

I will repeat again a point I have made before. An implied "forcing" in that I have to constrain my play within the design of the game I bought, does not bother me. I researched the game features before I bought.
I told myself I could enjoy this. I do.
If after a few hours of play I didn't like it, I could stop playing it and move on to another game.
Change the game design to (headache) me to play in a way I did not buy into, well that is a kind of self-serving arrogance. Again, I'm not talking about some imagined implied
imparitive based on personal satisfaction but an unavoidable rule coded into the game which I cannot avoid by playing another way (there are no other sand lots.)
If a so-called "PvE" was added and none of the other modes were affected, would I play it? Unlikely since I cannot envision any benefit I would get I'm not currently already getting
using the current modes and their variations. Am I willing to pay for this added mode? No. That's where the rubber meets the road. What's it worth to you?
Text is cheep.

-Pv-

 

[The Wallet Inspector]

"the sentiment on this thread is normally that Solo players are typically happy with the modes, while some Open advocates say that Solo should be chucked (which would force people to play in Open), or sometimes that Open players feel forced to play in Solo..."

Aside from the near misses in the flame wars here by others, I think you are zeroing in on the core points and appreciate the way you phrased this.

1) In the provision of the current modes, the devs have offered us an unequaled flexibility not found in any game on the market of which I could possibly have any interest and
done that at an astonishingly affordable price. A false assumption ight be since they gave us all this an affordable price, certainly they can give us all everything else we want at the same price.
2) The game as is may to some people feel like they are being "forced" to play in ways they do not like, but again as in point 1, the flexibility is there to make choices. Buy the game or not. Choose the mode of play.
I supposed you are "forced" to drive the car you bought. That is is some kind of implied coercion on the part of other players to make you buy and play this game, I don't accept.
Regardless of the mode, you can purchase the ship and equipment you want, play the same roles in all the modes, manipulate the AI universe, etc. I like it.
3) As stated, there are players who don't like the current modes who want to "force" (by removing current modes) other players into the style of play they prefer.
Also as succinctly stated in the quote above, I'm not reading a lot of posts here from Solo or Group people asking that Open mode be removed so Solo people can have more fun though I've seen a
couple posts asking that Open be removed to assuage all the moaning.
If your preferred style of play is so good, you should be able to entice me into it, not force me into it. Egads. The "force" word is starting to give me a headache.
4) I can speak as a mostly Solo player I have no problems at all with Open mode people blasting each other to bits in vast numbers. Some day I will play more Open than I do now
and do my share of bit blasting. I played Elite Solo for six years and I'm enjoying the multiplayer aspect of the game.
5) If as an Open player you want more players to join you, then behave. I'll join you. If you're the bully standing in the middle of the sand lot saying no one else can play ball here unless they can beat you up,
then I will go play ball elsewhere and you can play by yourself (maybe that's actually happening.) You go buy up all the sand lots or Matrix yourself into a thousand bullies and I'll still find a way to squeeze out.
6) I have played in Open mode and no human shot at me, so it's not the automatic death sentence one would gather from some exaggerated statements sometimes seen here.
It appears risk can be managed even in Open mode to some observable extent. Some want more management, some want less. Can't please everyone. The devs are always seeking balance and they
will get the balance THEY want regardless of the community opinion. If the game is no longer fun for them to code or no longer profitable because they dumped time and money into edge cases, then the game will die
and there is nothing any of us can do about it. By supporting what is good about the game and promoting it to our friends (that is what I have done) then we give the devs the resources to make this a game
space-based trading/combat lovers cannot refuse.
7) This leaves the more open discussion on a specific Player(s) vs AI multiplayer coop only mode asked to be added. This exists in a more limited form as Private among friends who agree to play coop only.
That it can also be used for both PvAI and PvP is amazing.
The "force" (headache) issue where those playing this so-called PvE may be tempted to complain that their style is now being neglected by the other players, that the vast non-belligerent
community they envisioned is not realized so all the other modes have to be forfeited so they can get what they want. Around and around we go. Remove choices so special interest groups
get more satisfaction. This tread mill really has no end. What special interest satisfaction exists in my country looks a lot like tyranny to me. Eventually you have hundreds of factions
competing against each other for attention and dev resources. "Make MY mode more fun." "Add just this one more feature and I'll be happy. PLEEEEZE!" "You got it just about right except for
this and this and this and this *little* thing that needs fine tuned. Not to mention the uncountable hours needed to test and debug to make sure they didn't break anything in the new mode
while other more fun and new features are languishing. Anyone who hasn't coded a game thinks it's all easy. Just type in a few command and it just WORKS.

I will repeat again a point I have made before. An implied "forcing" in that I have to constrain my play within the design of the game I bought, does not bother me. I researched the game features before I bought.
I told myself I could enjoy this. I do.
If after a few hours of play I didn't like it, I could stop playing it and move on to another game.
Change the game design to (headache) me to play in a way I did not buy into, well that is a kind of self-serving arrogance. Again, I'm not talking about some imagined implied
imparitive based on personal satisfaction but an unavoidable rule coded into the game which I cannot avoid by playing another way (there are no other sand lots.)
If a so-called "PvE" was added and none of the other modes were affected, would I play it? Unlikely since I cannot envision any benefit I would get I'm not currently already getting
using the current modes and their variations. Am I willing to pay for this added mode? No. That's where the rubber meets the road. What's it worth to you?
Text is cheep.

-Pv-

A very poignant post, some great points here. I agree mostly with the line "I researched the game first", I am with you on that. as well as your points on coercion and forcing.

7) This leaves the more open discussion on a specific Player(s) vs AI multiplayer coop only mode asked to be added. This exists in a more limited form as Private among friends who agree to play coop only.
That it can also be used for both PvAI and PvP is amazing.
The "force" (headache) issue where those playing this so-called PvE may be tempted to complain that their style is now being neglected by the other players, that the vast non-belligerent
community they envisioned is not realized so all the other modes have to be forfeited so they can get what they want. Around and around we go. Remove choices so special interest groups
get more satisfaction. This tread mill really has no end. What special interest satisfaction exists in my country looks a lot like tyranny to me. Eventually you have hundreds of factions
competing against each other for attention and dev resources. "Make MY mode more fun." "Add just this one more feature and I'll be happy. PLEEEEZE!" "You got it just about right except for
this and this and this and this *little* thing that needs fine tuned. Not to mention the uncountable hours needed to test and debug to make sure they didn't break anything in the new mode
while other more fun and new features are languishing. Anyone who hasn't coded a game thinks it's all easy. Just type in a few command and it just WORKS.

Yes, I have been saying this all along, it is a bad idea (imo), they need to appeal to a massive community, not just us on this one thread. It seems people just want to throw the baby out with the bathwater because of forum attitudes, not cool imo..

 

[Imperial Guard]

Clearly the FD devs must be aware of the topic by now, further contribution seems futile.

 

[The Wallet Inspector]

Clearly the FD devs must be aware of the topic by now, further contribution seems futile.

Not at all, discussion is good for people clarifying their own positions, and coming to new realizations. Also, these NEW suggestions to remove Open play deserve some counter debate in my opinion. Of course, the devs would always do it their way..

 

[Faded Glory]

7) This leaves the more open discussion on a specific Player(s) vs AI multiplayer coop only mode asked to be added. This exists in a more limited form as Private among friends who agree to play coop only.

That it can also be used for both PvAI and PvP is amazing.

The "force" (headache) issue where those playing this so-called PvE may be tempted to complain that their style is now being neglected by the other players, that the vast non-belligerent community they envisioned is not realized so all the other modes have to be forfeited so they can get what they want. Around and around we go. Remove choices so special interest groups get more satisfaction. This tread mill really has no end. What special interest satisfaction exists in my country looks a lot like tyranny to me. Eventually you have hundreds of factions competing against each other for attention and dev resources. "Make MY mode more fun." "Add just this one more feature and I'll be happy. PLEEEEZE!" "You got it just about right except for this and this and this and this *little* thing that needs fine tuned." Not to mention the uncountable hours needed to test and debug to make sure they didn't break anything in the new mode while other more fun and new features are languishing. Anyone who hasn't coded a game thinks it's all easy. Just type in a few command and it just WORKS.


-Pv-

Just to say, I doubt this would happen, as in an Open PvE mode other players are not your content, it does not directly affect you if they are there or not. It usually happens the other way around that PvP'ers want more live players to be their content, and thus complain that the other modes prevent this.

Yes, there's a huge amount of entitlement posting on these forums, and it's really pretty depressing, but that isn't to say that the game should not be discussed, or that requests should not be put forward. FD will either do something about them or not, that's entirely their prerogative. The discussion about the modes is obviously one that some people feel strongly about, as the three threads on this subject show.

 

[Cody]

Clearly the FD devs must be aware of the topic by now, further contribution seems futile.

You might think that... I couldn't possibly comment!

 

[Dave1235]

I have been behind a PVE option in the menu for a long time, I play in open, group or solo as my mood dictates.

Mobius is one of the groups I play in so why would I be behind a PVE group? because > 93%* of game owners do not have a forum account, of that ~ 6.2%* we have been told by Brett follow the general rule of active vs posted once, I think he said it was 90-9-1.

If people don't use the forums its highly unlikely they would have heard of Mobius, a PVE option at login is hard to ignore, its all about choices.

I get that the open PVP people that like non consenting PVP would be worried open would lose players, on the flip side the PVE option would likely include many more than are in Mobius (or fragmented in other PVE groups), it may even get some solo players to try it, (there are some that never will, they bought the game as a solo game and fair play to them) but I think a PVE option would be very popular (Mobius > 11k now).

The idea I am behind is a mirror image of Mobius, run by FD with triggers? I think they were called earlier.

Click on PVE, get the message "You are about to enter PVE mode, you agree that 1) if you attack / kill another player you will pay the full cost of the damage. 2) you will be banned from the PVE group for ever (account not CMDR). 3) you will be fined 50% of your total wealth (not cash) and that amount will be put on you as a bounty for the next 6 months (and you are forced to play in open, or shadow banned for 6 months).

Mobius had to kick 6 people in a year, 2 were code kidiots in one sitting, I don't think there would be a massive problem with PKing in a PVE group after the first few "I quit ED sucks, you actually did it!11!!1" threads, plus FD have all the info and could automate a lot of the management e.g. victim automatically respawns in PVE in the same place they got killed with everything they had, the killer gets booted to open with the bounty or shadow banned.

That said I am starting to think I might even be OK with the other option, disable fire against other CMDR's. I don't like to talk about immersion but it seemed cheap to me**, but one would hope even in 2015 military aircraft would have an IFF system that would ask the question "do you really want to fire a missile at a friendly jet, are you really sure?, so by 3300 maybe.

* 850k copy's sold 52719 forum members https://forums.frontier.co.uk/memberlist.php

TLDR I would take any PVE option in the menu for all the people out there that don't realise its a choice in the game.

There are some that would like to hide this option from the large majority of the players for their own personal reasons, not the good of the game or its population, I had better stop right there.

ETA

Even though Brett did not agree with my methodology, I was working with the only known figures we had. Here's the breakdown, I know some will not have seen it.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=90583&page=599&p=2213465&viewfull=1#post2213465

ETA 2 ** I have given it a lot of though and the main reason I changed my mind is that I am never going to deploy hardpoints against a CMDR in PVE anyway, so I don't really think it will affect me on reflection, I still need to give it a bit more consideration though.

 

[The Wallet Inspector]

I have been behind a PVE option in the menu for a long time, I play in open, group or solo as my mood dictates.

Mobius is one of the groups I play in so why would I be behind a PVE group? because > 93%* of game owners do not have a forum account, of that ~ 6.2%* we have been told by Brett follow the general rule of active vs posted once, I think he said it was 90-9-1.

If people don't use the forums its highly unlikely they would have heard of Mobius, a PVE option at login is hard to ignore, its all about choices.

I get that the open PVP people that like non consenting PVP would be worried open would lose players, on the flip side the PVE option would likely include many more than are in Mobius (or fragmented in other PVE groups), it may even get some solo players to try it, (there are some that never will, they bought the game as a solo game and fair play to them) but I think a PVE option would be very popular (Mobius > 11k now).

The idea I am behind is a mirror image of Mobius, run by FD with triggers? I think they were called earlier.

Click on PVE, get the message "You are about to enter PVE mode, you agree that 1) if you attack / kill another player you will pay the full cost of the damage. 2) you will be banned from the PVE group for ever (account not CMDR). 3) you will be fined 50% of your total wealth (not cash) and that amount will be put on you as a bounty for the next 6 months (and you are forced to play in open, or shadow banned for 6 months).

Mobius had to kick 6 people in a year, 2 were code kidiots in one sitting, I don't think there would be a massive problem with PKing in a PVE group after the first few "I quit ED sucks, you actually did it!11!!1" threads, plus FD have all the info and could automate a lot of the management e.g. victim automatically respawns in PVE in the same place they got killed with everything they had, the killer gets booted to open with the bounty or shadow banned.

That said I am starting to think I might even be OK with the other option, disable fire against other CMDR's. I don't like to talk about immersion but it seemed cheap to me, but one would hope even in 2015 military aircraft would have an IFF system that would ask the question "do you really want to fire a missile at a friendly jet, are you really sure?, so by 3300 maybe.

* 850k copy's sold 52719 forum members https://forums.frontier.co.uk/memberlist.php

TLDR I would take any PVE option in the menu for all the people out there that don't realise its a choice in the game.

There are some that would like to hide this option from the large majority or the players for their own personal reasons, not the good of the game or its population, I ahd better stop right there.

"I would take any PVE option in the menu for all the people out there that don't realise its a choice in the game. "

Apparently though. Mobius is NOT PvE. According to posters here, PvE is not actually a choice they have, as they claim it is not enforced by game design. I also hear accusations that Code members regularly infiltrate and torment the players there, so technically PvP DOES occur in this group. I know nothing of this, just what I was told on this thread.

"There are some that would like to hide this option from the large majority or the players for their own personal reasons, not the good of the game or its population, I ahd better stop right there."

How can people want an option "hidden", when it is not there? I am one of those that think it should stay as it is. But that is just my opinion. I have never heard anyone advocate for "hiding" the option at all, but I have heard many proposals to change the game for personal/forum reasons. I disagree with those. Perhaps FD would rather people play in Open, and do not want to encourage people into large private groups. Moebius is just a private group, so technically the player base IS aware they can form private groups. There is nothing special about Moebius that is not already available in the private groups section.

 

[Dave1235]

"I would take any PVE option in the menu for all the people out there that don't realise its a choice in the game. "

Apparently though. Mobius is NOT PvE. According to posters here, PvE is not actually a choice they have, as they claim it is not enforced by game design. I also hear accusations that Code members regularly infiltrate and torment the players there, so technically PvP DOES occur in this group. I know nothing of this, just what I was told on this thread.

"There are some that would like to hide this option from the large majority or the players for their own personal reasons, not the good of the game or its population, I ahd better stop right there."

How can people want an option "hidden", when it is not there? I am one of those that think it should stay as it is. But that is just my opinion. I have never heard anyone advocate for "hiding" the option at all, but I have heard many proposals to change the game for personal/forum reasons. I disagree with those. Perhaps FD would rather people play in Open, and do not want to encourage people into large private groups. Moebius is just a private group, so technically the player base IS aware they can form private groups. There is nothing special about Moebius that is not already available in the private groups section.

"I also hear accusations that Code members regularly infiltrate and torment the players there"

Please supply a citation, 6 in 12 months in total in not regular in my opinion, 2 were stated to be code (on one occasion).

"How can people want an option "hidden", when it is not there?"

PVE groups are there, an option many players will never discover, why are you against it, a mirror of Mobius with a CM running it.

PS

Congratulations to getting added to 2 ignore lists in one day, after 14 months here and reading every thread in this 25k mammoth, its many predecessors and many other contentious subjects I have never ever seen that before, well done you!.

Talking of 14 months, I have still not had an infraction of any kind, in the interests of keeping it like that I am going to go an play the game.

 

[Faded Glory]

That said I am starting to think I might even be OK with the other option, disable fire against other CMDR's. I don't like to talk about immersion but it seemed cheap to me**, but one would hope even in 2015 military aircraft would have an IFF system that would ask the question "do you really want to fire a missile at a friendly jet, are you really sure?, so by 3300 maybe.

I think any 'agreement' based system will just be open to abuse, and not worth their while. Just have an Open PvE mode where player versus player damage cannot happen, and better yet, implement DarkWalker's suggestion that firing on another player in that mode results in damage to the attackers ship. It'll very quickly become a genuinely PvE and non 'griefing' environment.

Apparently though. Mobius is NOT PvE. According to posters here, PvE is not actually a choice they have, as they claim it is not enforced by game design. I also hear accusations that Code members regularly infiltrate and torment the players there, so technically PvP DOES occur in this group. I know nothing of this, just what I was told on this thread.



How can people want an option "hidden", when it is not there? I am one of those that think it should stay as it is. But that is just my opinion. I have never heard anyone advocate for "hiding" the option at all, but I have heard many proposals to change the game for personal/forum reasons. I disagree with those. Perhaps FD would rather people play in Open, and do not want to encourage people into large private groups. Moebius is just a private group, so technically the player base IS aware they can form private groups. There is nothing special about Moebius that is not already available in the private groups section.

The rules of Mobius say that PvP is not allowed outside of combat zones where a player is on an opposing side. I suppose players may be able to schedule a consensual PvP fight, I don't know. A couple of CMDRs 'infiltrated' the group once, some people say it's ongoing, I have no idea.

Yes, anyone can form a group, and can suggest any rules they like for it. Mobius is nothing special, but it's ever growing membership points to a demand from the player base that a PvE environment would be well received.

 

[The Wallet Inspector]

"I also hear accusations that Code members regularly infiltrate and torment the players there"

Please supply a citation, 6 in 12 months in total in not regular in my opinion, 2 were stated to be code (on one occasion).

"How can people want an option "hidden", when it is not there?"

PVE groups are there, an option many players will never discover, why are you against it, a mirror of Mobius with a CM running it.

PS

Congratulations to getting added to 2 ignore lists in one day, after 14 months here and reading every thread in this 25k mammoth, its many predecessors and many other contentious subjects I have never ever seen that before, well done you!.

Talking of 14 months, I have still not had an infraction of any kind, in the interests of keeping it like that I am going to go an play the game.

"Please supply a citation, 6 in 12 months in total in not regular in my opinion, 2 were stated to be code (on one occasion)."


As I said, I did not know. They only did it twice? The poster made it seem like it was a regular problem. I guess that is not so bad then, I thought they were being plagued.


"PVE groups are there, an option many players will never discover, why are you against it, a mirror of Mobius with a CM running it.
"

Well you can still PvP in private group, and you can still attack people in Moebius. I am against it because I think the game is fine as is with regards to modes, but that is just my opinion.

"Congratulations to getting added to 2 ignore lists in one day, after 14 months here and reading every thread in this 25k mammoth, its many predecessors and many other contentious subjects I have never ever seen that before, well done you!."

No problem! But it seems off-topic. Either way, they are free to ignore me. I don;t see why you bring this up though, as i am merely discussing the game in a respectful and honest manner.

"Talking of 14 months, I have still not had an infraction of any kind, in the interests of keeping it like that I am going to go an play the game."

Again, I have no idea why you say such things, I have said nothing offensive, and received no warnings for my conduct here. I have to wonder why so many people who are against my views feel the need to say things like this ^ What does this have to do with the discussion at hand?

- - - Updated - - -

I think any 'agreement' based system will just be open to abuse, and not worth their while. Just have an Open PvE mode where player versus player damage cannot happen, and better yet, implement DarkWalker's suggestion that firing on another player in that mode results in damage to the attackers ship. It'll very quickly become a genuinely PvE and non 'griefing' environment.



The rules of Mobius say that PvP is not allowed outside of combat zones where a player is on an opposing side. I suppose players may be able to schedule a consensual PvP fight, I don't know. A couple of CMDRs 'infiltrated' the group once, some people say it's ongoing, I have no idea.

Yes, anyone can form a group, and can suggest any rules they like for it. Mobius is nothing special, but it's ever growing membership points to a demand from the player base that a PvE environment would be well received.

I just want to say thankyou for having an honest debate, you raise some good points. I need to ask though, do you think I am being insulting in any manner? Many of the people here who do not agree with my views seem to be accusing me of being hurtful, I just want to check I am not saying anything inappropriate in our discussion. I find it odd that my honest views are making so many accuse me of improper behavior, despite the fact I have received no warning or infractions. I am not here to make enemies. Anyway sorry for the derail, I will stay on topic

 

[Faded Glory]

I just want to say thankyou for having an honest debate, you raise some good points. I need to ask though, do you think I am being insulting in any manner? Many of the people here who do not agree with my views seem to be accusing me of being hurtful, I just want to check I am not saying anything inappropriate in our discussion. I find it odd that my honest views are making so many accuse me of improper behavior, despite the fact I have received no warning or infractions. I am not here to make enemies. Anyway sorry for the derail, I will stay on topic

I haven't found anything you've said to me to be insulting, and that's why I've been happy to discuss with you. It wouldn't be my place to comment on how other people (who are my forum 'friends') feel. This thread can get heated sometimes, plus it's been going on a long time, and it can get very frustrating when people come here with a 'great idea to solve the problem' that has been discussed many times before.

And while you have not done this to my knowledge, plenty of Open only advocates have come into this thread very aggressively, insulting people who play solo by calling them cowards, exploiters, cheats and a whole list that Cody keeps, and so I understand why sometimes tempers fray.

 

[The Wallet Inspector]

I haven't found anything you've said to me to be insulting, and that's why I've been happy to discuss with you. It wouldn't be my place to comment on how other people (who are my forum 'friends') feel. This thread can get heated sometimes, plus it's been going on a long time, and it can get very frustrating when people come here with a 'great idea to solve the problem' that has been discussed many times before.

And while you have not done this to my knowledge, plenty of Open only advocates have come into this thread very aggressively, insulting people who play solo by calling them cowards, exploiters, cheats and a whole list that Cody keeps, and so I understand why sometimes tempers fray.

"And while you have not done this to my knowledge, plenty of Open only advocates have come into this thread very aggressively, insulting people who play solo by calling them cowards, exploiters, cheats and a whole list that Cody keeps, and so I understand why sometimes tempers fray."

Yeah i kept getting told that, and kept saying I do not agree with those advocates views regarding PvE advocates. I was presumed guilty by association I think. But either way, thanks for not being as mean as everyone else. I can only assume they really did have their feelings hurt in the past, but that has nothing to do with me. Yeah apparently I was added to that list for using the word "easier"(not in the pejorative either, and i was being subjective). Seems a bit odd, but people are free to do as they please. It may be worth mentioning as well that the abuse I have received is not at the hands of Open Only Advocates.

 

[Faded Glory]

Yeah i kept getting told that, and kept saying I do not agree with those advocates. I was presumed guilty by association I think. But either way, thanks for not being as mean as everyone else. I can only assume they really did have their feelings hurt in the past, but that has nothing to do with me. Yeah apparently I was added to that list for using the word "easier"(not in the pejorative either). Seems a bit odd, but people are free to do as they please.

Cody keeps a list of condescending terms, not people' names.

As to easier, it's as subjective as riskier, and I don't find it particularly insulting, just a bit naive (not insulting you here). I dropped in on a USS hunting pirates only to find a Python, an Eagle and a Viper. They were all dangerous, and angry! It wasn't easy, and I had to leave pretty quickly, although I'm sure others might have found it a stroll in the park. So much depends on your ship (I was in an Imperial Courier, might have had a better chance in my Vulture) and your load out, as well as your skill. Also, with the combat model as it is, you will always be at a disadvantage when you are one versus more than one whether you are fighting NPCs or CMDRs. The main difference in my opinion is that CMDRs tend to have bigger guns.

I don't consider myself particularly skilled, although I can defeat most NPCs, some easier than others, but for sure they are constantly being tweaked and made more menacing, and today wasn't the first time I have had to run. Also, this particular grouping in a USS was new to me, so it's possible they are actually starting to match NPCs to the players rank (I ranked up recently). Who knows, maybe they always have.

 

[The Wallet Inspector]

Cody keeps a list of condescending terms, not people' names.

As to easier, it's as subjective as riskier, and I don't find it particularly insulting, just a bit naive (not insulting you here). I dropped in on a USS hunting pirates only to find a Python, an Eagle and a Viper. They were all dangerous, and angry! It wasn't easy, and I had to leave pretty quickly, although I'm sure others might have found it a stroll in the park. So much depends on your ship (I was in an Imperial Courier, might have had a better chance in my Vulture) and your load out, as well as your skill. Also, with the combat model as it is, you will always be at a disadvantage when you are one versus more than one whether you are fighting NPCs or CMDRs. The main difference in my opinion is that CMDRs tend to have bigger guns.

I don't consider myself particularly skilled, although I can defeat most NPCs, some easier than others, but for sure they are constantly being tweaked and made more menacing, and today wasn't the first time I have had to run. Also, this particular grouping in a USS was new to me, so it's possible they are actually starting to match NPCs to the players rank (I ranked up recently). Who knows, maybe they always have.

"Cody keeps a list of condescending terms, not people' names. "

I cannot imagine why lol. What purpose does it solve? Just because someone used a word does not mean they are being "condescending". One of the terms was "mode-switcher", sounded rather factual and respectful to me.

"The main difference in my opinion is that CMDRs tend to have bigger guns. "

Hehe sometimes. Sometimes I just think "You came at me with THIS?"

"and today wasn't the first time I have had to run."

Yeah I have ran from NPC's, but not one has yet managed to claim my life. (thankfully). . I did notice they got a bit better after my 3 month break.

 

[Dave1235]

I think any 'agreement' based system will just be open to abuse, and not worth their while. Just have an Open PvE mode where player versus player damage cannot happen, and better yet, implement DarkWalker's suggestion that firing on another player in that mode results in damage to the attackers ship. It'll very quickly become a genuinely PvE and non 'griefing' environment.

I was hoping that on the basis that only ~ 6 people were booted from Mobius in a year, 2 kidiots in one incident and apparently another one was a misunderstanding and he was let back in, that FD could mirror it with not too much effort and a big warning sign on the door.

As I said I have read every post of the 25k and many, many more, both and you DarkWalker (along with many others) have consistently made a lot of sense IMHO (over many months), it partly down to your and others posts on a PVE option that I gave it more thought. Add to that the recent abuse or the game mechanics (pad blocking with a wanted player to attract all the police, when they can't damage you), I now have to agree a gentleman's agreement will not work as a menu option.

I liked DarkWalker's suggestion that firing on another player in that mode results in damage to the attackers ship, and I agree it will help stop the "spray & pray" and help people maintain the fire discipline they would need in open PVP if they want to go there.

Sad day for my vision of how it might work, but as the great man said "The Needs of the Many Outweigh the Needs of the Few" and my main reason is to help others who would prefer PVE but don't know how to find it, I know where it is.

 

[Jockey79]

I was hoping that on the basis that only ~ 6 people were booted from Mobius in a year, 2 kidiots in one incident and apparently another one was a misunderstanding and he was let back in, that FD could mirror it with not too much effort and a big warning sign on the door.

As I said I have read every post of the 25k and many, many more, both and you DarkWalker (along with many others) have consistently made a lot of sense IMHO (over many months), it partly down to your and others posts on a PVE option that I gave it more thought. Add to that the recent abuse or the game mechanics (pad blocking with a wanted player to attract all the police, when they can't damage you), I now have to agree a gentleman's agreement will not work as a menu option.

I liked DarkWalker's suggestion that firing on another player in that mode results in damage to the attackers ship, and I agree it will help stop the "spray & pray" and help people maintain the fire discipline they would need in open PVP if they want to go there.

Sad day for my vision of how it might work, but as the great man said "The Needs of the Many Outweigh the Needs of the Few" and my main reason is to help others who would prefer PVE but don't know how to find it, I know where it is.

I once suggested the billboards outside docking hatches have advertising for the Mobius Group on them.

The Open Only crowd didn't like that idea one bit. Something about it turning open into a wasteland - funny how a month later they were complaining it was one anyway.

We won't get an Open PvE mode. That's why I've stopped supporting the idea.

The only fair thing to do is remove open, that way we are all equal and no one can say FD favor one mode over another or say rewards are unfair in any mode, as we will all be in private groups like Mobius or its PvP counterpart

 

[Faded Glory]

I was hoping that on the basis that only ~ 6 people were booted from Mobius in a year, 2 kidiots in one incident and apparently another one was a misunderstanding and he was let back in, that FD could mirror it with not too much effort and a big warning sign on the door.

As I said I have read every post of the 25k and many, many more, both and you DarkWalker (along with many others) have consistently made a lot of sense IMHO (over many months), it partly down to your and others posts on a PVE option that I gave it more thought. Add to that the recent abuse or the game mechanics (pad blocking with a wanted player to attract all the police, when they can't damage you), I now have to agree a gentleman's agreement will not work as a menu option.

I liked DarkWalker's suggestion that firing on another player in that mode results in damage to the attackers ship, and I agree it will help stop the "spray & pray" and help people maintain the fire discipline they would need in open PVP if they want to go there.

Sad day for my vision of how it might work, but as the great man said "The Needs of the Many Outweigh the Needs of the Few" and my main reason is to help others who would prefer PVE but don't know how to find it, I know where it is.

Well, to be honest, the more I think about it, the cleaner it would be with two Open modes and Solo. Groups are a very fragmentary way of matchmaking (although I understand that some people presumably only want to play with their own friends), but I'd have thought that if strangers couldn't shoot at you or impede you in any way then just seeing them in the game wouldn't be that bad.

Of course human nature being what it is, you'd probably get 'vocal griefers', just being offensive over comms, so perhaps how it is now is better. What is it that they say, "It's because of people that you cannot have nice things"?

 

[fademist]

lol this discussion still running? i wonder if new "solo is bad for the game" facts r up...