Hardware & Technical high contrast cylindrical projection system for space sims = 2K VR

[tzahry]

Hi guys,

Not sure if that should be here or in the VR section (but since that section is exclusively dedicated to head mounted displays I didn't wanted to be flogged out for mentioning different kind of VR)

I would like to introduce new surround projection system that makes space simulation not only possible but quite spectacular. It takes care of the very high contrast range required for good image and immersion and it almost entirely eliminates projector light bleed (on normal screens you can very clearly see where 2 projectors crossing if you are using more than one). Resulting view is 180 degrees of field of view and 2K resolution, and it allows full stereoscopic immersion as well as interaction with keyboard, maps, charts, notes, pads, drinking and eating without the need to "jump out of the VR world" for each little task in Real world.

All the magic is in the Black Pearl HDR projection screen so you can use regular entry short throw projectors like BenQ 1080, 1085ST Optoma GT1080 and GT720. The contrast and blacks get even better when the lights are dimmed in the room

Some pics are here

[video=youtube;kWt0sVmDGSk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWt0sVmDGSk[/video]

 

[Nauht]

Sorry that ain't VR.

It's a very good projection system but not VR. If you've tried the DK2 you'll know what I mean.

 

[tzahry]

well - that's exactly what I was trying to avoid ....

It's not Head Mounted Display (HMD) if it is what you mean - And yes - it is VR http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_reality (I understand lately the term has been hijacked for oculus marketing and it leads to lot of confusion and misunderstanding).

Yes - I have tried Oculus - it is certainly Trabant of HMD world . If you were impressed with oculus try some real HMDs - even the old ones will blow your mind -1920x1080 res (per eye), 140-160 FoV and glass optics (those are made for more than 5 years already) - or try good VR projection system, turn stereoscopy (3D) on and enjoy the high contrast, 2K or 4K resolution (per eye) ;-) - you won't just have a feeling like you are watching something - you will be IN there.

 

[Porina]

Looks nice... but that means lots of questions now

1, where is the projector actually located? Is it a single projector or a multi-projector setup?
2, the aspect ratio looks very wide? Are you losing vertical resolution? Is this resolution "enough" at that size and viewing distance? Subjective, I know...
3, how does the projector cope with the curved screen? I would have thought they'd struggle with a non-flat focal plane, but I'm not up to date on what short throw ones can do.
4, do you get rectilinear "distortion" in the peripheral view? For example, when played on a normal flat screen, if you put a round object in the corner of the display, it appears to stretch and deform. I wish ED supports choice of projection models and think built in support for a cylindrical projection would be a nice to have.

As background to my questions, I've been wondering about "going large" myself, but I didn't consider anything like this. Choices I had thought about include running a 3 monitor system, or a single big 4k display and increase the FoV. That reminds me, wasn't there some company doing curved screen TVs?

Edit: in poking through the other videos, this is a two projector system?

 

[Surfinjo]

That looks very impressive.

Nice.

 

[tzahry]

Looks nice... but that means lots of questions now

1, where is the projector actually located? Is it a single projector or a multi-projector setup?
2, the aspect ratio looks very wide? Are you losing vertical resolution? Is this resolution "enough" at that size and viewing distance? Subjective, I know...
3, how does the projector cope with the curved screen? I would have thought they'd struggle with a non-flat focal plane, but I'm not up to date on what short throw ones can do.
4, do you get rectilinear "distortion" in the peripheral view? For example, when played on a normal flat screen, if you put a round object in the corner of the display, it appears to stretch and deform. I wish ED supports choice of projection models and think built in support for a cylindrical projection would be a nice to have.

As background to my questions, I've been wondering about "going large" myself, but I didn't consider anything like this. Choices I had thought about include running a 3 monitor system, or a single big 4k display and increase the FoV. That reminds me, wasn't there some company doing curved screen TVs?

Edit: in poking through the other videos, this is a two projector system?

HI, Thanks

1 the projectors are located overhead (this is 2 projector setup)
2 There is no loss in vertical resolution. It is pretty subjective but I would say the resolution is more than enough (you can read all text, navigate all menus and recognize targets in distance just like on a monitor)
3 The gen of short throw projectors is pretty amazing - the main game changer is the Black Pearl screen which eliminates quite a number of typical problems related to projectors.
4 Yes, towards the edges there is bit of stretching but most of it is corrected via the warping and blending software (I might recalibrate the projectors in some stage). Ideal would be 3 monitors view (multicam view) such as in DCS World, i Racing, FSX, P3D, ESP and so on (warping can get rid off the little distortions quite easy). ED has the capability and already supports multiview because it's required for Oculus and other head mounted displays - all it's needed is adding menu in graphics settings and few little tweaks.

There is few companies doing curved screens (slightly bent) this system is 180º wrap around - with TV's it is not possible because of the glare (one TV would be reflecting the other one) and it would require quite a few TVs.

[video=youtube;TGiA5Oxh8u0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGiA5Oxh8u0[/video]

here is just the frame with projectors (it also nicely demonstrates the Black Pearl contrast and black color capability which is something completely new in front projection)

 

[Porina]

Still looks like a great idea, and if I had the space I'd look to implement something like it. I did look at 4k TVs and multiple monitor options also but they each have different problems and I gave up in the end

 

[tzahry]

this might be going bit too far but with the tablets and everything hooked up it's like having a space ship in a room .

In super-cruise I can figure out next trade routes in TTT and left and right panels have swappable presets for combat, docking, mining and spaceport interaction

 

[j0ssv8]

this might be going bit too far but with the tablets and everything hooked up it's like having a space ship in a room .

In super-cruise I can figure out next trade routes in TTT and left and right panels have swappable presets for combat, docking, mining and spaceport interaction

View attachment 40941View attachment 40942View attachment 40943View attachment 40944

what is the screen material?

 

[tzahry]

it's Black Pearl HDR - it's designed to absorb most of the ambient light (to provide deep black base) and it reflects projector light evenly - it also reduces hot spotting significantly and almost eliminates some projector artifacts such as rainbow effect (color splitting during high speed movement)

 

[Draxxen]

Very impressive setup.
Dare I ask how many hours of work you dedicated to this, and how much this project set you back?

 

[Patrick_68000]

Awesome! Black is the Force

 

[tzahry]

Very impressive setup.
Dare I ask how many hours of work you dedicated to this, and how much this project set you back?

designing the first one took me more than year and half but now I'm making these kits if anybody wants one. This one (at home) took me about 2 days all together.

The components are (in USD)

Gametrix KW 908 ... $200
Buttkicker $ 250
Seat $350
Workdesk cockpit $350
saitek x55 $280
saitek pedals $220
2x android tablets $35 each
Icarus avenger $875
Projectors $750 each
Warping and blending $360
PC .. $2500

Awesome! Black is the Force

cheers!

 

[Karnath]

Yeah not VR, but 10/10 for effort
It looks an incredible set up, congrats very impressive

 

[tzahry]

onto the next page

 

[Globusdiablo]

Hi guys,

Not sure if that should be here or in the VR section (but since that section is exclusively dedicated to head mounted displays I didn't wanted to be flogged out for mentioning different kind of VR)

I would like to introduce new surround projection system that makes space simulation not only possible but quite spectacular. It takes care of the very high contrast range required for good image and immersion and it almost entirely eliminates projector light bleed (on normal screens you can very clearly see where 2 projectors crossing if you are using more than one). Resulting view is 180 degrees of field of view and 2K resolution, and it allows full stereoscopic immersion as well as interaction with keyboard, maps, charts, notes, pads, drinking and eating without the need to "jump out of the VR world" for each little task in Real world.

All the magic is in the Black Pearl HDR projection screen so you can use regular entry short throw projectors like BenQ 1080, 1085ST Optoma GT1080 and GT720. The contrast and blacks get even better when the lights are dimmed in the room.

Absolutely awesome! So immersive that I see you wanting to look up some times.

Why isn't the Oculus working for you? I've high hopes for the retail version, but haven't tried it yet.

 

[tzahry]

Absolutely awesome! So immersive that I see you wanting to look up some times.

Why isn't the Oculus working for you? I've high hopes for the retail version, but haven't tried it yet.

Absolutely awesome! So immersive that I see you wanting to look up some times.

Why isn't the Oculus working for you? I've high hopes for the retail version, but haven't tried it yet.

Disclaimer: This is my personal view at HMDs and I don't want to upset anybody so If you love Oculus or believe in Lawnmover movie please skip to the next post and ignore this one (i really don't want to start any arguments, thank you).

The Oculus doesn't work for me because I've been working with HMDs untill 2010 so the magic, charm and mystery is completely gone - now it's just a display that sits uncomfortably on my forehead with limitations that I'm too aware off. My main issues are extremely low angular resolution, very limited field of view, chromatic aberrations, Image shift on eye iris movement (because the display and lens sits very close to the eye the iris moves quite a lot away from optimal viewing place unless you rigidly stare forward), cheap plastic lenses, lack of contrast, inability to interact with anything around or take notes, discomfort due to the sky mask effect (racoon face + heat and moisture), instant loss of immersion on when trying to use keyboard, mouse, take notes, check map or manual or simply anything that requires lifting up the mask even for a moment and vulnerability - if you have somebody in a family with bit of sense of humor you'll end up with stuff in your mouth and lots of interesting photos (essentially you are blinded person with occasionally open mouth permanently asking for it - does the good old "close your eyes and open your mouth" rings a bell ;-) ?). I've also completely stopped using stereoscopic 3D for myself as it is incredibly difficult to calibrate the effect to match real world and I started to have very serious problems with depth perception and judging distances because I got accustomed to the simulated depth (not a good thing for a pilot). On the other side if somebody is not bothered about the shortcomings and can settle for Oculus HMD or something similar I think it's really cheap way how to get better immersion than average monitor can provide.

 

[Globusdiablo]

...On the other side if somebody is not bothered about the shortcomings and can settle for Oculus HMD or something similar I think it's really cheap way how to get better immersion than average monitor can provide.

Thanks, good post.

Fly safe

 

[Surfinjo]

Optoma 84 Inch Widescreen Pull Down Projector Screen £99.99

http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/optoma-84-inch-widescreen-pull-down-projector-screen-a50hf

Philips PPX2055 Pocket Projector £169.99

http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/philips-p...5&utm_content=Product-1&utm_campaign=16P07-09

 

[Jacob Marshall]

http://archergadgetsonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/PPX3407_EU-IMS-en_GB.jpg http://i.ytimg.com/vi/UadHXlH-FVA/maxresdefault.jpg


Optoma 84 Inch Widescreen Pull Down Projector Screen £99.99

http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/optoma-84-inch-widescreen-pull-down-projector-screen-a50hf

Philips PPX2055 Pocket Projector £169.99

http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/philips-p...5&utm_content=Product-1&utm_campaign=16P07-09

No! Just..no! Please...no! *Checks bank balance*

Tzhary, I agree with you on the drawbacks to Rift and think your's is about the best option I've seen; too pricey for me but...yeah, I'd play on that