Fuel Scoop Price Gouging

CaliMeatWagon

CaliMeatWagon
With the help of ScrubNachos a huge discrepancy in price and performance of fuel scoops have been discovered. In almost every instance the B rated fuel scoop is one fourth of the cost of it's A rated counterpart while only having a marginally smaller fuel scoop rate. To illustrate this, here are a couple of examples:

Class 7 Fuel Scoop
A Rated: 1245 kg/s $91,180,644
B Rated: 1068 kg/s $22,795,161

Class 6 Fuel Scoop
A Rated: 878 kg/s $28,763,610
B Rated: 752 kg/s $7,190,903

So why the massive increase in price? In most modules it is because you get a huge savings in weight, like in the instance of Power Plants. But Fuel Scoops have no weight, so the increase in price has no justification and is little more than price gouging.
 

AkimuMC

AkimuMC
Because of dirty Federal corporations!

Honestly, I don't have any idea. I never even looked that close at it. I use an A4 as much as I can when re-positioning the "ship that shall not be named". I suppose because I don't lose money when selling modules back I never looked that close.

So, just for grins I looked at it. an A4 costs $2,862,364 and refuels at 342 kg/s ($8369.48 per kg/s). A B4 costs $715,591 and refuels at 294 kg/s ($2433.98 per kg/s). That means we will pay 4 times the cost for 1.163 times the efficiency.

Maybe they just want us to have things to spend credits on?
 

joshuma32

J
this is why I stick to low end fuel scoops. 3A is the biggest I have gone with a fuel scoop..... although now I wonder how much a 3B would be lol
 

GG7

G
I thought the "B" grade components were much heavier than the "A" grade and that was the reason why they were so much cheaper. No?

I'm running with a B5 scoop on my Python simply because I needed a fast refueling rate which allows me to top off quickly before the Python starts to overheat being so close to the star. I didn't have a problem like this with my Asp, so a slower and much cheaper version worked great, but when I tried running with one of those on the Python, it just took way too long and I always had to abort the scooping run well before my tank was full due to the heat issues.
 
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GG7

G
Tempestfox3 said:
Fuel scoops have 0 weight regardless of Grade and class.
Click to expand...

Interesting. I didn't know that. Based on the "B" grade stuff generally being heavier, I just assumed that the fuel scoop was also. How do they explain a module having ZERO weight? Seems kind of odd and unrealistic.
 
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Dan Gatang

Dan Gatang
The other thing to consider is that the C quality scoops of the next class up feature better collection rates and cost less than the A scoop of the class smaller. If you're scooping on a budget, and can afford the internal slot, you're better off going with a 6C rather than a 5A, or 5C over 4A, etc.

Eg:
6C: 627Kg/s, 1,797,726cr
5A: 577Kg/s, 9,073,694cr
 

RasputinX

R
it weighs a negligible amount in relation to the hull it replaces?
its composed mainly of "force fields" that funnel the stellar material to the intake or "scoop" itself?
 

Ian Phillips

Volunteer Moderator
Ian Phillips
Cut the sarcastic remarks please, and post something that is "informative, well thought out and helps further the discussion".

Thank you.
 
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RasputinX

R
Fine.

The pricing is inline with all the rest of the pricing of all of the rest of the modules...the coincidence that the lack of weight in some modules renders some of the normal benefits of upgrading to A-class from B-class irrelevant is just that, a coincidence, but the "issue" of correcting the perceived imbalance in "cost/peformance" is one that I do not think the devs are likely to concern themselves with. If you can afford a better scoop and want to pay for slightly better performance you are free to do so.

Is paying significantly more for slightly greater performance at the highest levels such a strange concept? Its a pretty common phenomenon in my experience...

Edit:posted before moderation, see nothing needed to be changed, glad I forgot the line about urinating into a breeze
 
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goemon

goemon
CaliMeatWagon said:
So why the massive increase in price? In most modules it is because you get a huge savings in weight, like in the instance of Power Plants. But Fuel Scoops have no weight, so the increase in price has no justification...
Click to expand...

would you say the same about

a) shieldboosters?
b) limpet controllers?
c) cargo racks?
d) AFMU?

... all of their A/B-class have the same (or no) weight.

it's not about weight, it's about functionality. whether the additional functionality is worth it's price should be considered ofc.

concerning fuelscoops the functionality is linked closed to the time of a frameshift-drive-cooldown, because after that is the point where you actually can start jumping away. so - if you go exploring, that additional seconds may add up and be worth the price.

from experience, there is also a refuel-time which makes going on quasi endless in the bubble (it's about 1:30 total refill), a great thing if you have a fuelscoop giving you that time on your python or clipper.
 
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RasputinX

R
those aren't the best comparisons

Shield Boosters are cheap as hell, also, look at their efficiency power/benefit
Limpet Controllers have more than enough benefits from upgrade to A-class, also cheap as hell
Cargo Racks??? whut? just listing all 0 weight modules and hoping its relevant? intellectually lazy as hell bro
AFMU...don't know enough about them, they might actually be almost comparable, but likely not

Its not that he doesn't have a point about the Fuel Scoops being expensive for limited improvement in performance, its just a fairly weak one and one unlikely to change.
 
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OZYMANDlUS

OZYMANDlUS
RasputinX said:
those aren't the best comparisons

Shield Boosters are cheap as hell, also, look at their efficiency power/benefit
Limpet Controllers have more than enough benefits from upgrade to A-class, also cheap as hell
Cargo Racks??? whut? just listing all 0 weight modules and hoping its relevant? intellectually lazy as hell bro
AFMU...don't know enough about them, they might actually be almost comparable, but likely not

Its not that he doesn't have a point about the Fuel Scoops being expensive for limited improvement in performance, its just a fairly weak one and one unlikely to change.
Click to expand...

With AFMUs there is 2 different lines of thought. One says A is better the other claims B is the better. B has more available ammo than A, but it repairs slower. A has less ammo, but can repair a greater degree of damage.

Personally if you have 2 identical size slots that you can use; then grab 1 of each. Use the B rated to repair minor damage. Use the A to repair heavier damage
 
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goemon

goemon
RasputinX said:
those aren't the best comparisons

Shield Boosters are cheap as hell, also, look at their efficiency power/benefit
Limpet Controllers have more than enough benefits from upgrade to A-class, also cheap as hell
Cargo Racks??? whut? just listing all 0 weight modules and hoping its relevant? intellectually lazy as hell bro
AFMU...don't know enough about them, they might actually be almost comparable, but likely not

Its not that he doesn't have a point about the Fuel Scoops being expensive for limited improvement in performance, its just a fairly weak one and one unlikely to change.
Click to expand...

you'll want to look to the differences of a and b class limpet controllers, too. same as with AFMU there are also reasons why to take B class over A class. maybe check before you state "intellectual lazyness" ;-)
(b class gives your limpets more range, while a class gives you more time, so what will you want to take for salvaging?)

OP states weight is what you pay more money for, that's for sure wrong.
 

RasputinX

R
I'm pretty sure (damn near positive) that A-class Prospector Limpet Controllers have greater range than B-class...and that is the only kind of Limpet Controller I'm worried about the range on...I don't even think Prospector Controllers have a listed time on them..I know they DO expire eventually, but there is not a time listed on their stats.

Collector Limpets (assuming you're correct about the range, can't check, halfway to Sag A*)...unless you're using them to pick up things other than asteroid fragments, and if you are, you can probably use damn near any controller for that, if you're at a point where the range matters between an A-class and a B-class, you're probably doing something wrong (i.e. Y U so far away from your fragments) and you are wasting so much time, the difference between the endurance on your B-class limpets is gonna make big difference. Sure limpets are cheap, but that also means replacing one or two that die because they went too far out is cheap as well. Are there reasons to use B-class limpets over A-class...maybe, but the only one I can think of that is super-relevant is "I went to the limpet controller store and all they had was B-class." Range over time is only good if you're using them for anything other than mining, and that's a pretty niche market...the "oh yeah, you can use them for that too..." market. Sure, pirates and others find them convenient, but they're not the core userbase.

Yes, OP was incorrect when he focused on weight as the primary difference, A-class modules also generally use more power, and have greater capabilities in other areas...

As to intellectual laziness...dude, come on...maybe I failed to mention one (questionable) benefit of using B-class Limpet Controllers...but Cargo Racks don't even COME in A or B Class, you messed up, just admit it, you were trying to make a point and just spammed every module you could think of or looked up that had 0 mass. Trying to turn it back around on me is, well, its the opposite of a well-thought out, reasoned, and worthy argument.
 
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goemon

goemon
RasputinX said:
maybe I failed to mention one (questionable) benefit of using B-class Limpet Controllers...but Cargo Racks don't even COME in A or B Class, you messed up, just admit it, you were trying to make a point and just spammed every module you could think of or looked up that had 0 mass. Trying to turn it back around on me is, well, its the opposite of a well-thought out, reasoned, and worthy argument.
Click to expand...

fyi: collector limpet controller: 3A: range: 1,32 km, weight: 8 T, time: 12 min, price: 86 k. 3B: range 1,54 km, weight: 8T, time: 7 min, prize 43 k.

my whole point was that you pay for functionality, not for weight. please read what i wrote again, and reply to the reasoning there.

i didn't only brought moduls into discussion, that don't weight anything (AMU and cargo racks weigh nothing, B class shieldboosters weigh less than class A, and are more efficient turning power into additional shieldboost, and limpet controllers do weight the same, and differ in other numbers - see above).

now for cargo racks: a class 6 cargo rack costs 360 k CR. a class 7 cargo rack 1,1 mio CR. shouldn't one expect a class 7 cargo rack to have the double price of a class 6, for providing the double cargo space? looks like modul prices are not linear, as if maxed performance does cost significantly more.

do you think fuelscoops should be less expensive? why? compared to what? to bulkheads? to thrusters?
 
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