I can't believe what adding little details into a game does to adding immersion.

[Nauht]

Over the weekend I decided to install Galaxy on Fire 2 on my mobile and after playing it the weekend I realise that even this game, designed as an app for mobiles, has better atmosphere and immersion that ED... and that's just plain wrong.

It started me thinking what sucked me into the GOF universe that the ED universe can't get right and I think it's the little details. For instance:

- the history of your character. You feel drawn into his storyline, even if it is simplistic, it's at least something to care about.
- equipment naming and description. None of this generic Class 3 gimbal laser that does 1.x more damage than the next generic pulse. Each weapon in GoF2 has its own name and a brief blurb about the weapon. Look at the description for the Niral Impulse EX 2 laser cannon.. or the E2 Exoclad armour - the most basic armour and yet it others to tell you that in a proper description.
- Different background screens that give the illusion of actually being inside a space station and not confined to the chair of your ship... always. Click on the space lounge, hangar, and although it's just a different screen and click it gives the illusion that I'm actually outside my ship and I can use my imagination (tm), the enduring catchcry of the white knighters, to place myself in various aspects of a space station.
- 90's style pics of faces for NPC's. Even this basic method added to the personality and immersion of the game. Instead of this bulletin board style of getting missions. It adds a personal touch

I enjoy ED and would love it to expand and to add some more life and personality to their universe. I'm sure that FD are aware of this but still don't understand why, given that one of the main criticisms of the game is immersion and depth, that they haven't given this a top priority.
Driving around a procedurally generated terrain is just another way of exploring procedurally generated content in our ships. The game needs more character, depth and personality.

 

[xxThe_Dice_manxx]

Over the weekend I decided to install Galaxy on Fire 2 on my mobile and after playing it the weekend I realise that even this game, designed as an app for mobiles, has better atmosphere and immersion that ED... and that's just plain wrong.

It started me thinking what sucked me into the GOF universe that the ED universe can't get right and I think it's the little details. For instance:

- the history of your character. You feel drawn into his storyline, even if it is simplistic, it's at least something to care about.
- equipment naming and description. None of this generic Class 3 gimbal laser that does 1.x more damage than the next generic pulse. Each weapon in GoF2 has its own name and a brief blurb about the weapon. Look at the description for the Niral Impulse EX 2 laser cannon.. or the E2 Exoclad armour - the most basic armour and yet it others to tell you that in a proper description.
- Different background screens that give the illusion of actually being inside a space station and not confined to the chair of your ship... always. Click on the space lounge, hangar, and although it's just a different screen and click it gives the illusion that I'm actually outside my ship and I can use my imagination (tm), the enduring catchcry of the white knighters, to place myself in various aspects of a space station.
- 90's style pics of faces for NPC's. Even this basic method added to the personality and immersion of the game. Instead of this bulletin board style of getting missions. It adds a personal touch

I enjoy ED and would love it to expand and to add some more life and personality to their universe. I'm sure that FD are aware of this but still don't understand why, given that one of the main criticisms of the game is immersion and depth, that they haven't given this a top priority.
Driving around a procedurally generated terrain is just another way of exploring procedurally generated content in our ships. The game needs more character, depth and personality.

Patience......

 

[Severian]

Some people like to be told what to do, others like to make their own way. Horses for courses as they say.

Personally can't stand cut scenes and "information cards". /mashes spacebar to skip

 

[SyberSmoke]

Some people like to be told what to do, others like to make their own way. Horses for courses as they say.

Personally can't stand cut scenes and "information cards". /mashes spacebar to skip

You can have detailed information with out having cut scenes. What he is saying if I read it right is that it is about the details that make the universe feel alive instead of Generic sidewinder with generic pilot fitted with generic pulse lasers and so on.

 

[Zeeman]

A lot of this has already been addressed in previous newsletters. Crafting, for example...

Z...

 

[SyberSmoke]

A lot of this has already been addressed in previous newsletters. Crafting, for example...

Z...

Crafting is a system, not a method to add depth. Instead of Generic off the shelf we will instead get crafted nondescript pulse lasers...OOoooo....Assuming you take the time to go out and collect the hard to find resources to craft them of coarse...if not you will still have generic nondescript pulse lasers. ;-)

 

[Zeeman]

Crafting is a system, not a method to add depth. Instead of Generic off the shelf we will instead get crafted nondescript pulse lasers...OOoooo....Assuming you take the time to go out and collect the hard to find resources to craft them of coarse...if not you will still have generic nondescript pulse lasers. ;-)

I don't really understand the problem. In real life, I can buy a car, it could be a Toyota Econobox™, or a Porsche Numbers GTS™ - both have pretty generic names, and you have the option to spend up to customise, if you wish. I don't feel any less immersed in my life because cars, TV's, or pens have generic names...

I'd also guess that adding "little things" into a game designed for phones, the whole thing taking up just a few MB, is far easier than doing the same for a game the size of ED.

TL: DR - Soon™

Z...

 

[irongut]

- the history of your character. You feel drawn into his storyline, even if it is simplistic, it's at least something to care about.

This is a sandbox game, like a roleplaying game the history and story of your character is up to you.

- equipment naming and description. None of this generic Class 3 gimbal laser that does 1.x more damage than the next generic pulse. Each weapon in GoF2 has its own name and a brief blurb about the weapon. Look at the description for the Niral Impulse EX 2 laser cannon.. or the E2 Exoclad armour - the most basic armour and yet it others to tell you that in a proper description.

Agreed ship equipment could have better descriptions. Trade goods have some great descriptions, especially the rare goods. Crafting should help with the variety of equipment and make it less generic.

- Different background screens that give the illusion of actually being inside a space station and not confined to the chair of your ship... always. Click on the space lounge, hangar, and although it's just a different screen and click it gives the illusion that I'm actually outside my ship and I can use my imagination (tm), the enduring catchcry of the white knighters, to place myself in various aspects of a space station.

None of this is a priority for a game about flying spaceships but all of it is coming, eventually. The next season includes a character generator so we will be able to decide what we look like and eventually we will be able to walk around inside ships and stations.

- 90's style pics of faces for NPC's. Even this basic method added to the personality and immersion of the game. Instead of this bulletin board style of getting missions. It adds a personal touch

The BB could definitely use some work and jobs given by NPCs would be nice. I'm hoping the addition of character generation will eventually lead to this.

 

[SyberSmoke]

I don't really understand the problem. In real life, I can buy a car, it could be a Toyota Econobox™, or a Porsche Numbers GTS™ - both have pretty generic names, and you have the option to spend up to customise, if you wish. I don't feel any less immersed in my life because cars, TV's, or pens have generic names...

I'd also guess that adding "little things" into a game designed for phones, the whole thing taking up just a few MB, is far easier than doing the same for a game the size of ED.

TL: DR - Soon™

Z...

You kind of made the point there. While there are say 5 manufacturers of item: generic looking car. Each one operates a little different. At the same time I can go to the local hunting shop and see 6 different 9mm handguns...but each is different in subtle ways. Larger mags, barrel vents, weight, handling...yes they all fire a 9mm Parabellum round, but each handles differently.

Instead in Elite, for off the self there is just one pulse laser in three flavors (Fixed, Gimbal, and Turret). There is no "I am at Macguffin station and I just found the Macguffin pulse laser...man it does more damage for less heat BUT has a slower ROF...damn this is neat". See I like that I can find bit and bobs everywhere, but there is no variety. And really unless the parts to make cool stuff are easy to get...it is not going to take away this want to go to some obscure station at the fringe of space to may be get a pair of pulse lasers made by a little oriental guy that also sells noodles out of the back of his Hauler.

Note: My point is more about differentiating areas. Minor factions, Regions, and even Major Factions could all have different regulations that define how a weapon or system can be built. This would mean besides the stock equipment, players could go out and look at different stations an see variations in how things work and with enough travel may be find some really odd one off equipment. Mmm...Exploration beyond going into the area where no one lives at all.

 

[OamodSias]

- the history of your character. You feel drawn into his storyline, even if it is simplistic, it's at least something to care about.

- http://hosting.zaonce.net/elite/website/assets/English-PlayersGuidev1.04-INTERACTIVE.pdf (about 10mb)

Page 26, there's your history - the rest is up to you.

 

[JoeShmo]

GoF2 really is a great game.

I was Super skeptical about getting it when it was released on Steam/PC because it was a mobile port; but they did improve the visuals, added gamepad support ( somewhat ), and overall it actually feels like a huge chunk of space to explore..with "geographical" markers that accent this...rather than in ED where it is just implied that the universe is huge ( since every system just feels like the same random empty chunk of supercruise real-estate as the last one. )

I don't think ED benefits from being overtly "empty" in regards to linearity or markers to always go to. To me, it seems like a "lazy-man" approach to game design. "It's vague and empty because.... its immersive and realistic!" 'We don't hold hands' feels like code-word for 'We didn't want to bother with as much effort' . You can obviously go too far in regards to shepherding people through a game ( for those that don't enjoy that kind of thing ) , but the absence of context or instruction...does not equate to being immersive, challenging or rewarding. It's just a lack of context or instruction.

You can lead a player into progressing through the game, without creating neon lights and TomTom arrows for them to follow.

It's like the difference between a game like Terraria, and a "Terraria-like" game of Edge of Space or Darkout. One game allows you to choose your way, to explore and play in a sandbox of linear-lite progression. The others...went with the absolute sandbox approach and pretty much forced themselves into awkward tutorials because of how empty the game is of direction or reason. There's a philosophy of "explain through gameplay, not via narrative" that holds true in gaming. A good game design / story explains itself; but you can't just force it on the user.

ED has the right idea behind its "vague openness" , to where the players should be able to experience trial and error and/or figure out things for themselves. The problem, is that it's designed to just drop a kid off in the jungle with a spoon in the middle of the night... and explain / premise this with nothing. And when the particulars of the game, once found out, don't actually reward the player for their due diligence. Things like super cryptic module / ship statistics , Hud Information inside the ship, how / where things interact with missions / factions / events, etc.

In the end, the game is just a super lazy / "insider only" designed game in the lure of "Simulation" and nostalgia. There's no way any game would get away with how its designed like this other than because of great marketing and a fanbase that bequeaths you to be "super nerdy" about the game mechanics ..or "get better".

I've put in a lot of enjoyable hours into the game, and an equal amount of "?" Picardface. I don't hate the game outright, or even remotely, but it is super painful to see it in "all its glory".

 

[Lemonhoko]

GoF2 really is a great game.

I was Super skeptical about getting it when it was released on Steam/PC because it was a mobile port; but they did improve the visuals, added gamepad support ( somewhat ), and overall it actually feels like a huge chunk of space to explore..with "geographical" markers that accent this...rather than in ED where it is just implied that the universe is huge ( since every system just feels like the same random empty chunk of supercruise real-estate as the last one. )

I don't think ED benefits from being overtly "empty" in regards to linearity or markers to always go to. To me, it seems like a "lazy-man" approach to game design. "It's vague and empty because.... its immersive and realistic!" 'We don't hold hands' feels like code-word for 'We didn't want to bother with as much effort' . You can obviously go too far in regards to shepherding people through a game ( for those that don't enjoy that kind of thing ) , but the absence of context or instruction...does not equate to being immersive, challenging or rewarding. It's just a lack of context or instruction.

You can lead a player into progressing through the game, without creating neon lights and TomTom arrows for them to follow.

It's like the difference between a game like Terraria, and a "Terraria-like" game of Edge of Space or Darkout. One game allows you to choose your way, to explore and play in a sandbox of linear-lite progression. The others...went with the absolute sandbox approach and pretty much forced themselves into awkward tutorials because of how empty the game is of direction or reason. There's a philosophy of "explain through gameplay, not via narrative" that holds true in gaming. A good game design / story explains itself; but you can't just force it on the user.

ED has the right idea behind its "vague openness" , to where the players should be able to experience trial and error and/or figure out things for themselves. The problem, is that it's designed to just drop a kid off in the jungle with a spoon in the middle of the night... and explain / premise this with nothing. And when the particulars of the game, once found out, don't actually reward the player for their due diligence. Things like super cryptic module / ship statistics , Hud Information inside the ship, how / where things interact with missions / factions / events, etc.

In the end, the game is just a super lazy / "insider only" designed game in the lure of "Simulation" and nostalgia. There's no way any game would get away with how its designed like this other than because of great marketing and a fanbase that bequeaths you to be "super nerdy" about the game mechanics ..or "get better".

I've put in a lot of enjoyable hours into the game, and an equal amount of "?" Picardface. I don't hate the game outright, or even remotely, but it is super painful to see it in "all its glory".

Very well said Joeshmo + rep

 

[Barking_Mad]

It's a journey playing this game. It will change over time. That's part of the fun for me. Sure, it would be nice to have a few of these things now, but it's not the b all.

 

[pantbash]

I would like a bit more diversity in station appearance, few differnt build types.
Mby some with damage etc...

I think this would help with you calling a system home.

 

[Legacy_LuckyLuke]

Patience......

This. I agree with the sentiment of the OP - but remember GOF has been in development for a few years. But absolutely right, once all those little details are in ED it will be amazing.

 

[Jack Schitt]

This. I agree with the sentiment of the OP - but remember GOF has been in development for a few years.

It also had two expansion packs for iOS (and Mac IIRC) that were promised for PC but never materialised. Instead the developers dropped those planned features and shifted focus to GoF Alliances, a more strategic game of galactic powers vying for political... hang on, this is all starting to sound a bit familiar.

 

[deMangler]

FD could learn a lot from this game too.



Ironically (yes I too now mis-use this term on the internet), it is inspired by Elite but was released years before the ED kickstarter and somehow it manages to give the illusion of persistance and richness that ED lacks. Also can be played on phone, PC, etc and you keep the same commander across devices.
That practically a one-man team could do this and ED not probably means it is more a matter of intention than capability.

 

[Jack Schitt]

FD could learn a lot from this game too.

That looks interesting. Bookmarked for later, thanks!

 

[c64orinoco]

Are we talking the same 'Galaxy On Fire' that screwed over all of their paying customers by putting full screen ads in every time you dock?

You want that in ED?

 

[Katie Byrne]

Over the weekend I decided to install Galaxy on Fire 2 on my mobile and after playing it the weekend I realise that even this game, designed as an app for mobiles, has better atmosphere and immersion that ED... and that's just plain wrong.

It started me thinking what sucked me into the GOF universe that the ED universe can't get right and I think it's the little details. For instance:

- the history of your character. You feel drawn into his storyline, even if it is simplistic, it's at least something to care about.

Yes this might be nice and with character creation coming i suspect there will be more investment in your character at some point.

- equipment naming and description. None of this generic Class 3 gimbal laser that does 1.x more damage than the next generic pulse. Each weapon in GoF2 has its own name and a brief blurb about the weapon. Look at the description for the Niral Impulse EX 2 laser cannon.. or the E2 Exoclad armour - the most basic armour and yet it others to tell you that in a proper description.

Ship naming ability would be better.

- Different background screens that give the illusion of actually being inside a space station and not confined to the chair of your ship... always. Click on the space lounge, hangar, and although it's just a different screen and click it gives the illusion that I'm actually outside my ship and I can use my imagination (tm), the enduring catchcry of the white knighters, to place myself in various aspects of a space station.

I absolutely HATE this idea. Something like this would kill the immersion for VR users. Lets keep it immersive yeah.

- 90's style pics of faces for NPC's. Even this basic method added to the personality and immersion of the game. Instead of this bulletin board style of getting missions. It adds a personal touch

they did this. its called powerplay lol