A note about smuggling missions

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Can we consider what people are talking about when they use the term "challenging smuggling missions" on ED?

Let's consider such a mission. Take X tons of cargo from A---->B. Evade interdiction (typically easily done), and evade scanning (typically easily done).

A year+ ago in my head I had the notion of challenging smuggling missions meaning clever use of silent/cold running to skip though areas undetected, maybe having to meet up with a dodgy ship somewhere in the middle of nowhere to pick something up, maybe hiding behind asteroids from security vessels (think new line-of-sight scanning in CQC), etc etc...

When did the term "challenging" change to mean illogical but highly rewarded?
 
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Just a little reminder here: this hit on the awesome fun / awesome money smuggling missions is temporary. Here's what Sandro said in the OP of this very thread:

Here's what Sandro didn't say: (snip)

Funny how the second, fake Sandro statement seems to be way more in line with how FD actually handle things.
 
Can we consider what people are talking about when they use the term "challenging smuggling missions" on ED?

Let's consider such a mission. Take X tons of cargo from A---->B. Evade interdiction (typically easily done), and evade scanning (typically easily done).

A year+ ago in my head I had the notion of challenging smuggling missions meaning clever use of silent/cold running to skip though areas undetected, maybe having to meet up with a dodgy ship somewhere in the middle of nowhere to pick something up, maybe hiding behind asteroids from security vessels (think new line-of-sight scanning in CQC), etc etc...

When did the term "challenging" change to mean illogical but highly rewarded?

I created a thread talking about this.
I'm with you.
It needs more challenge.

People also assume I'm upset at the nerf to lrms. I'm not. I found them tedious and boring for the most part. I just miss my old short range smuggling jobs.

Now I'm just trading in my Clipper when there isn't something better to do.
 
Can we consider what people are talking about when they use the term "challenging smuggling missions" on ED?

Let's consider such a mission. Take X tons of cargo from A---->B. Evade interdiction (typically easily done), and evade scanning (typically easily done).

A year+ ago in my head I had the notion of challenging smuggling missions meaning clever use of silent/cold running to skip though areas undetected, maybe having to meet up with a dodgy ship somewhere in the middle of nowhere to pick something up, maybe hiding behind asteroids from security vessels (think new line-of-sight scanning in CQC), etc etc...

When did the term "challenging" change to mean illogical but highly rewarded?

True. If you think of it in absolute terms, its easy.

But you know why? Because absolutely everything in ED is easy. Smuggling was just a little less easy than most other thing, and was considering exciting in comparison, mostly because you rarely had a moment of peace, were always on the clock and had to do a continuous travel for 4 hours or more.

Compare it to everything else:

Trading -> biggest risk: crashing into station, and trading websites being offline.
Exploring -> biggest risk: run out of fuel due to neglicency.
Powerplay paper carrying -> biggest risk: killed by station after forgetting to previously request docking permission before entering.
Powerplay trader shooting -> biggest risk: running out of ammo and having to go back to rearm.
RES farming -> biggest risk: the ship crashed into an asteroid while the pilot went to the bathroom.
Mining -> biggest risk: being drunk and crashing into an asteroid.
Pirating -> biggest risk: not finding targets and coming back empty-handed.

Now tell me again why was smuggling "a problem" because of "being easy"?

There is nothing in this game that isn't easy.
 
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Can we consider what people are talking about when they use the term "challenging smuggling missions" on ED?

Let's consider such a mission. Take X tons of cargo from A---->B. Evade interdiction (typically easily done), and evade scanning (typically easily done).

A year+ ago in my head I had the notion of challenging smuggling missions meaning clever use of silent/cold running to skip though areas undetected, maybe having to meet up with a dodgy ship somewhere in the middle of nowhere to pick something up, maybe hiding behind asteroids from security vessels (think new line-of-sight scanning in CQC), etc etc...

When did the term "challenging" change to mean illogical but highly rewarded?

I think they could implement some scenarios where you have to drop into a signal source to meet the contact that you are smuggling for, but then the meeting can get rumbled by the cops or by a rival gang and you have to either fight them off or make a run for it. It's a pretty simple idea and doable using current game mechanics. We already have things like the mineral magpie and tech acquisitions floating around, why not introduce a smuggling mission generated version?

I'll admit, getting into a station is more or less just a case of flipping the silent running switch and gliding through the mail slot. Not sure how they could expand on the challenge here using existing mechanics, they'd probably have to implement some new features that are probably unlikely to see development when Horizons is currently job number 1.

At this moment in time, I'd be happy just having more of them.
 
True. If you think of it in absolute terms, its easy.

But you know why? Because absolutely everything in ED is easy. Smuggling was just a little less easy than most other thing, and was considering exciting in comparison, mostly because you rarely had a moment of peace, were always on the clock and had to do a continuous travel for 4 hours or more.

Compare it to everything else:

Trading -> biggest risk: crashing into station.
Exploring -> biggest risk: run out of fuel due to enormous neglicency.
Powerplay paper carrying -> biggest risk: killed by station after forgetting to previously request docking permission
Powerplay trader shooting -> biggest risk: running out of ammo and having to go back to rearm
RES farming -> biggest risk: the ship crashed into an asteroid while the pilot went to the bathroom
Mining -> biggest risk: being drunk and crashing into an asteroid
Pirating -> biggest risk: not finding targets and coming back empty-handed

There is nothing in this game that isn't easy.

Now tell me again why was smuggling "a problem" because of "being easy"?

Well, you've hit lots of nails on the head there ;)

With all of these, my problem is:-
- The impression from Kickstarter days was a reasoned, logical and simulated galaxy was planned.
- The resultant somewhat thin "mini-games" we've (instead) ended up with are IMHO all too often illogical and pretty unchallenging, case in hand being smuggling, the topic of this thread.





I'll admit, getting into a station is more or less just a case of flipping the silent running switch and gliding through the mail slot.
I've never even bothered with that! Even in an Anaconda I just fly in before any scan finishes... If there was the depth and mechanics to require cold/silent running!
 
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It's the same as with the original smuggling exploit, back when hauling performance enhancers from high tech stations to Type 9s waiting in planet orbit netted you millions in a matter of minutes.

All the players flocked to it. The news of this grand new way of making easy money spread like wildfire. This was before community goals were even introduced, and had the same effect, if not even a better one. Dozens of smugglers buzzing around the same spaceport, until it became a challenge to enter the mailslot without colliding with another player.

Then the pirates appeared and tried to blockade the station. Then the already rich smugglers paid bounties in palladium for any combat capable ship destroying wanted CMDRs in the system.

And all without even having to inject an event specifically designed to do that. All of us had fun, it was a rewarding experience, both in credits and in player interactive gameplay.

Then the voices of those who felt left out of the game or had already gotten rich and could already afford several combat fitted Anacondas got louder, crying for a nerf because they could not stand others having more fun than they themselves. The fools that thought getting to an A-rated Anaconda was the goal of the game, and once past that hurdle, there would be no incentive to play, cried out ever louder, blabbering about imbalance and finding ever more adventurous explanations for why this fun gameplay had to be stopped immediately, before even more people found joy, reward and ingame profit in it.

And FD obliged. "Seeking Goods" was nerfed into oblivion. It is now a legend of the past. Those of us who were there remember it fondly, because it was fun while it lasted. More fun than any regular ED gameplay had ever been up to that point. Finally we had found a gameplay experience that we found REWARDING. One we could SHARE without ruining it.

The revamped version of "Seeking Goods" was a community breaker, same as the nerfed and broken trade routes. They called it the background simulation. No trade route would ever be persistent. The more CMDRs traded along a route, be it smuggling to the T9s or regular bulk trading, the more profits would diminish.

A few days or weeks people still kept holding on to the old fashion of sharing trade information. They tried to keep the community spirit, the cooperative gameplay... but it quickly became clear that FD had reprogrammed the game so that playing cooperatively would be punished by diminishing ingame rewards. Soon it was "every trader for themselves". Trade routes were rare to be found, the profitable ones would be bragged about on the forums, but never even hinted at as to where they were located. "I make 3000 profit per ton on my route, but I won't be so stupid to tell you were it is!" That is the spirit they encouraged with their background simulation. Every player for themselves. Sharing trade routes, cooperative gameplay, making profit together instead of trying to screw each other over? Nope, not in Elite's "cutthroat galaxy" (tm).

Introducing community goals, they tried to bring the spirit back that they themselves had banned from the game in the first place. Only now, the profits were laughable, the rewards a bad joke. Community goals felt like every other aspect of the game: A grindfest.

They paled in comparison to what had come before. The rares trading before the nerf, the "seeking goods" smuggling before the nerf...

And now they tried to bring back smuggling again, and it was fun while it lasted, but the nerf crybabies were there again to ruin it. And FD obliged. As always, they nerfed it into oblivion. Smuggling missions will share the same fate as rares trading and the "seeking goods" smuggling...

Sorry for my negativity on the topic, but I do not see the imbalance that people cry about. All I see is fun, rewarding, cooperative gameplay being stomped into the ground wherever it emerges. As if FD only want us players to work together on their specifically designed "Community Goals".

I had so much fun sharing the same trade route with other CMDRs back when they were still persistent and profits wouldn't diminish between two large population systems, just because a dozen player T9s would haul goods from A to B for a week. But that is a thing of the past now. Long gone. I had fun trading rares, back when you wouldn't fly dozens of lightyears only to find that the starport currently had only 1 ton of their rare commodity in stock, but could count on there being at least 15-20 tons available for you to pick up. But that is also a thing of the past. At least the rares routes are still persistent, if also become a frustrating grind due to resource allocation RNGs.

At least the new hazardous RES's are still profitable, if you are lucky enough that the RNG hits the sweet spot and you get the big ones. I wish I had more time for playing and could get some use out of them before the inevitable cry for the nerfhammer comes, and as a reaction wanted ships will disappear entirely from all RES's, being replaced by the occasional miner and/or lots of police - as it has been before, when people found that RES's had to be nerfed.

Never before has the development of a game and its community made me so sad and bitter. If I could have but one wish, it would be for FD to ignore any negative community feedback in the future and never again nerf something, but rather adjust the rewards for all other activities to match the payout of the so-called "exploit".

Sorry, I am sure many people find the changes to their liking. There are those of the faction that say "good! Now you finally have to put in some effort to make a profit again!"

Thing is: The smuggling missions WERE challenging. You HAD to put in an effort. They were dangerous, time-consuming, they had you on the edge of your seat... the only thing they did different than any other ingame-content: They actually gave you a frakkin' reward for your efforts. One that matched the time and energy invested for a change.

I know my words fall on deaf ears, but I had to get it out of my system. Carry on as if I said nothing - do your usual thing. I don't mind. Nothing to see here.

Whatever the politics, it is a fact that all of those things you've mentioned (rares, seeking goods and the more recent smuggling) were just bloody good fun. I had an absolute blast running those sothis missions.... Hugely high risk as i almost died 3 times and had a litter of fines and bounties on me afterwards which i had to go back and clean up, but my last run was the most fun i'd had in the game for a long time.
 
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And all without even having to inject an event specifically designed to do that. All of us had fun, it was a rewarding experience, both in credits and in player interactive gameplay.
Why does it take an exploit (I'll come to that term in a minute) to give you the "rewarding experience" to highlight here? Why isn't the game supplying these under its own regular mechanics?

Why is Powerplay not creating battles where CMDRs can get involved with attacking or defending supply runs? Why are community goals not creating battle zones requiring fights around capital ships or stations using small fighters like CQC (and in early ED videos)? Why are stations not sometimes getting thrown into blockade situations employing new dedicated mechanics? etc...

In short, why are you having to herald an "exploit" as the bastion of positive mechanics in this game? Doesn't this highlight a bigger and far more important issue?



And yes, I'd term it an an "exploit". Why would someone want to pay millions of CRs to ship 3T of hydrogen 450ly, when it can be sourced within a dozen ly of the destination more easily, and at a fraction of the cost?



Then the voices of those who felt left out of the game or had already gotten rich and could already afford several combat fitted Anacondas got louder, crying for a nerf because they could not stand others having more fun than they themselves. The fools that thought getting to an A-rated Anaconda was the goal of the game, and once past that hurdle, there would be no incentive to play, cried out ever louder, blabbering about imbalance and finding ever more adventurous explanations for why this fun gameplay had to be stopped immediately, before even more people found joy, reward and ingame profit in it.
That feels very unfair and unfounded IMHO. Are you suggesting this mechanic was logical and good for the game? Let's get to the point - You're clearly annoyed the more interesting game play has gone generated by the spark of an exploit... Welcome back to ED.
 
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Why does it take an exploit (I'll come to that term in a minute) to give you the "rewarding experience" to highlight here? Why isn't the game supplying these under its own regular mechanics?

Why is Powerplay not creating battles where CMDRs can get involved with attacking or defending supply runs? Why are community goals not creating battle zones requiring fights around capital ships or stations using small fighters like CQC (and in early ED videos)? Why are stations not sometimes getting thrown into blockade situations employing new dedicated mechanics? etc...

In short, why are you having to herald an "exploit" as the bastion of positive mechanics in this game? Doesn't this highlight a bigger and far more important issue?



And yes, I'd term it an an "exploit". Why would someone want to pay millions of CRs to ship 3T of hydrogen 450ly, when it can be sourced within a dozen ly of the destination more easily, and at a fraction of the cost?

I agree that the way these smuggling missions were designed was poorly implemented. The main and most important reason I loved doing them was - and I am not ashamed to admit it - that they were paying exceptionally well.

See, I like to see my actions in a game lead to a visible progress or reward - if possible, in a timespan that does not require me to quit my job and cancel all my social interactions for the sake of in game profit.

So when I see a mission on the bulletin board that nets me more than one million credits in one run, I tend to graciously look over the flaws of its implementation and gratefully accept it, looking forward to seeing actual positive development on my bank account in the game for a change.

This game throws so many stick between your legs that when it lets you have a homerun for once, I ask myself why people cry for more sticks being thrown?

Now of course they could have made the smuggling missions make much more sense, and of course they could long since standard beta have implemented a sensible way of handling criminal actions and consequences in the game.

For instance: Why do the smuggling missions go FROM Sothis into the Bubble, and not from inside the Bubble to Sothis?

Why are the commodities sought simple market commodites, and in such low amounts as well?

Why not smuggle illegal luxuries into the far out frontier systems?

Dozens of tons of narcotics and performance enhancers? Or even combinations of different rares? 5 tons each of Lavian Brandy, Leesti Evil Juice, Orrerian Brew, Wolf Fesh... someone is surely planning a party out there! Wait - 20 slaves on top, too? Oh hell... this can't be legal! You would be hopping from system to system gathering all the necessary wares, hunted by npcs... then make the trip far out and be handsomely rewarded if you succeed in getting the wares inside the station.

If you get scanned, however, you not only get fined, but all your cargo gets confiscated as contraband, and your contractor puts out a bounty on your head, just as Jabba the Hut did with Han Solo. You also get a criminal record "Smuggler", a tag that every police ship and every other CMDR can see on your ship after a finished scan, and that gets you much more attention from the cops in the future. You get pulled out of supercruise more often by NPC authority ships and bounty hunters for a random search scan... and some stations in lawful authoritative regimes won't even give you docking clearance until you have cleared your criminal record - which you can only achieve by doing lots of charity missions or donating large sums to charitable projects.

Unless you feel comfortable to retreat into more unlawful space where less people give a damn about your reputation, of course... but that's exactly where the bounty hunters will be looking for you...
 
So when I see a mission on the bulletin board that nets me more than one million credits in one run, I tend to graciously look over the flaws of its implementation and gratefully accept it, looking forward to seeing actual positive development on my bank account in the game for a change.
Don't we all! ;)

I agree, it would be better if these super well paying smuggling missions came up for a more logical reason. eg: Get some data/person to a destination within 2 hours. etc... Anything so at least it has the ring of truth to it :)


If you get scanned, however, you not only get fined, but all your cargo gets confiscated as contraband, and your contractor puts out a bounty on your head, just as Jabba the Hut did with Han Solo. You also get a criminal record "Smuggler", a tag that every police ship and every other CMDR can see on your ship after a finished scan, and that gets you much more attention from the cops in the future.
Not sure if your suggestions are the right ones, but I feel - like you - something more needs to be added all this. eg: If you're carting something fairly simple, the fine. But if your super secret data or person are detected, then yes, confiscate and other outcomes. eg: You don't get any future missions from the person you smuggled through etc etc...


And would it be interesting if smuggling also involved sneaking through asteroid fields to platforms undetected, using the new CQC line of sight scanners etc. And if cold/silent running really made a difference :)
 
Thing is, I'm not finding the same good smuggling missions I was originally finding in the more populated areas of space. Instead of 1 or 2 250k-500k missions, I'm finding 1 50k-100k mission, that to be perfectly honest isn't even worth my time. I can easily make more shooting pirates at a nav point and that has made the game less enjoyable for me. So their reaction wasn't just to make smuggling missions rarer and less lucrative in the less populated areas of space, but they also seem to have done it in the more populated areas, which was NEVER an issue pre-bubble. I have to agree that there were so many things they could have done to make smuggling meaningful, instead it's just a slightly more profitable manner of trading without any real consequences aside from some small and truly insignificant fines. Come on FD, this isn't rocket science (or is it?)!
 
this isn't rocket science (or is it?)!

No, this is the tears science. We have a real masters in tears, all their words are a laws. They have the real true about this gane. They have the secret of the real boring game. Its better than a fun game, is most interesting have a simple game with out funny missions, They are experts un the dark science of the boring games.
 
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out of curiosity, those who are complaining that "moaners got the missions profits cut!" are you saying then that you would be happy to go with FD on everything they decide and not make complains?

Because personally that would mean profits going back to the 1.0 launch day levels, complete with repair costs, a pittance for bounties etc etc.

but the complaints back then that the only way to make money was trading were HUGE..... so FD took on board what people were saying and have subsequently been boosting profits and cutting costs across the board. Few complained.... until they eventually went a bit to far imo.

Unless you are saying the people "moaning" at the start of the game are out of order as well asking for everything to be boosted and then getting their own way, then this thread is full of hypocrites imo.

PS and just to echo again... the long range missions are not gone for good, they are just dialed back whilst they are worked on so they can be enjoyed by all, and not just those who want all the shiny things handed to them in a few hrs, or at least made so you EARN those mega credits if they do come back.!.
 
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I agree that the way these smuggling missions were designed was poorly implemented. The main and most important reason I loved doing them was - and I am not ashamed to admit it - that they were paying exceptionally well.

See, I like to see my actions in a game lead to a visible progress or reward - if possible, in a timespan that does not require me to quit my job and cancel all my social interactions for the sake of in game profit.

So when I see a mission on the bulletin board that nets me more than one million credits in one run, I tend to graciously look over the flaws of its implementation and gratefully accept it, looking forward to seeing actual positive development on my bank account in the game for a change.

This game throws so many stick between your legs that when it lets you have a homerun for once, I ask myself why people cry for more sticks being thrown?

Now of course they could have made the smuggling missions make much more sense, and of course they could long since standard beta have implemented a sensible way of handling criminal actions and consequences in the game.

For instance: Why do the smuggling missions go FROM Sothis into the Bubble, and not from inside the Bubble to Sothis?

Why are the commodities sought simple market commodites, and in such low amounts as well?

Why not smuggle illegal luxuries into the far out frontier systems?

Dozens of tons of narcotics and performance enhancers? Or even combinations of different rares? 5 tons each of Lavian Brandy, Leesti Evil Juice, Orrerian Brew, Wolf Fesh... someone is surely planning a party out there! Wait - 20 slaves on top, too? Oh hell... this can't be legal! You would be hopping from system to system gathering all the necessary wares, hunted by npcs... then make the trip far out and be handsomely rewarded if you succeed in getting the wares inside the station.

If you get scanned, however, you not only get fined, but all your cargo gets confiscated as contraband, and your contractor puts out a bounty on your head, just as Jabba the Hut did with Han Solo. You also get a criminal record "Smuggler", a tag that every police ship and every other CMDR can see on your ship after a finished scan, and that gets you much more attention from the cops in the future. You get pulled out of supercruise more often by NPC authority ships and bounty hunters for a random search scan... and some stations in lawful authoritative regimes won't even give you docking clearance until you have cleared your criminal record - which you can only achieve by doing lots of charity missions or donating large sums to charitable projects.

Unless you feel comfortable to retreat into more unlawful space where less people give a damn about your reputation, of course... but that's exactly where the bounty hunters will be looking for you...


And you are now playing EVE Online!!!
 
Please don't do that.
Server malfunction on my side I guess .
I feel that Frontier was fair in balancing out the payouts. The smuggling missions are there just lest often. The long range trade runs are still there. I get sometimes three to four missions going to the same star port from the same board. On a average of 800k to 1.5m per mission. That in my book is still ok.
 
And you are now playing EVE Online!!!

One or more billion in credits is nice. I ask myself on what my motivation is to accumulate that many credits. 150m for a A rated power plant in my anaconda. So my answer is if 1.5 patch, Ships, the new corvette, if it is larger than a t9 or anaconda. How much will the ship cost. Plus any A rated components. Is the trek to a billion plus credits justified? I , after all am a trader by profession in ED. It's just natural for me to want the highest paying runs. My thoughts, that's all.
 
How much per mission? I'd kill for that!!

Server malfunction on my side I guess .
I feel that Frontier was fair in balancing out the payouts. The smuggling missions are there just lest often. The long range trade runs are still there. I get sometimes three to four missions going to the same star port from the same board. On a average of 800k to 1.5m per mission. That in my book is still ok.


WOW!! I would kill for an average of 800k to 1.5 per mission.
I've spent the past couple of weeks, hours per day looking for decent smuggling missions. MY average is 30k-50k with the "rare high-paying missions" averaging around 100k to 120k. I have to stack up four to six missions to get about 400k depending on the day.

Prior to the update I was getting average 150k-220 with the highs being 400-500K and I was totally fine with that. Now I'm putzing around space for pennies and wondering why I'm doing it.

I'm making more money hopping navs and using my advanced discovery scanner than I am with smuggling missions.

Smuggling is severely broken from my point of view.

UPDATE:
After sitting at a port in Rhea I finally got a 220k smuggling mission!!!!! First I've seen since the update. I hope Frontier gets their balancing act together because I'm finding it hard to justify the time with such measly payouts.
 
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