Well put. Though I'm assuming that it is Elite: Dangerous that you are hopeful will achieve the ideal? Not Frontier.
Yeah
I meant Frontier Developments.
Proposal Discussion Elite: Dangerous is a "fly by wire" flight sim?!
- Thread starter Globusdiablo
- Start date
Yeah
I meant Frontier Developments.
My impression was that the main issue was tracking player speeds and positions at ridiculously fast relative velocities. The "jousting in space" seemed like more of a secondary concern. Wasn't there something about an upper relative speed that the network code could handle?
I am so glad it's being done this way - Frontier was a great game, but I really hated the combat. Every time that damn attack klaxon went off, I'd roll my eyes, lock on to the target, blow it away, rinse and repeat. Boring. Now we're going to have some proper dogfights! Who cares if it isn't 'realistic'? Sometimes realism can be very boring.
I agree. If we want realism, we have real life
The only thing I'll miss is the Newtonian flight model for travel. I only care about losing it for combat because of the knock-on effects that an artificial speed limit creates.
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ultimately the game has to be fun. I put in 100's of hrs into Frontier and FFE however neither I found were as "fun" to fly as the original game.
Obviously this is subjective, but the majority of people I know feel this way. Thankfully from my perspective, DB has said roughly the same thing.
Is it dumbing down? Maybe but I dont think so, Sure there is room in the market for hard core simulations, but they are a very niche market
(A10 Warthog is 1 such example)
BUT
There are so few space sims out there, I really think it would be nuts for DB (and CR) to cater for such a minority audience when there are MANY more who want something more fun. That being said, ED DOES offer more than a plane in space, it does have full Newtonian characteristics, just with some limits to keep it playable. From what I have seen and heard, most seem to think they have made a very nice compromise.
Whilst I respect the skills of anyone who is dedicated enough to fly a complex flight model properly, Sadly I have a job, a house, a family and way too many commitments, I just have an hr here and there to play games. IF ED had been too hardcore I would have been out, as would the majority of adult gamers imo, and they are the people who are mostly going to be playing ED, or at least the ones who got the game off the ground.
Obviously this is subjective, but the majority of people I know feel this way. Thankfully from my perspective, DB has said roughly the same thing.
Is it dumbing down? Maybe but I dont think so, Sure there is room in the market for hard core simulations, but they are a very niche market
(A10 Warthog is 1 such example)
BUT
There are so few space sims out there, I really think it would be nuts for DB (and CR) to cater for such a minority audience when there are MANY more who want something more fun. That being said, ED DOES offer more than a plane in space, it does have full Newtonian characteristics, just with some limits to keep it playable. From what I have seen and heard, most seem to think they have made a very nice compromise.
Whilst I respect the skills of anyone who is dedicated enough to fly a complex flight model properly, Sadly I have a job, a house, a family and way too many commitments, I just have an hr here and there to play games. IF ED had been too hardcore I would have been out, as would the majority of adult gamers imo, and they are the people who are mostly going to be playing ED, or at least the ones who got the game off the ground.
Indeed!
Even in a game like wow running close to the missus along a road on my screen i would appear to be in front but on my wife's screen she would appear to be in front.
Factoring this up to several hundred meters per second i wonder how our screens would compare of our relative positions.
The relative speeds on network seems to be the issue that is conveniently ignored by those wanting the game a specific way.
I believe the word you are looking for is approach
Why would you always feel the bounds of this limitation? You simply switch to supercruise, no biggie? I know what you mean, I hate "magic" in sci fi, but I'd wait until we see the first implementation. David Braben is a fan of realism, so I bet it will be tuned to not be glaringly annoying to any physicist.
Relative to the nearest gravity well or "point of interest" I think.
Currently we have no drive technology to reach speeds near of light efficiently. Maybe the thrusters in ED use changes in the gravitational field to accelerate? Kind of like a boat does pushing water, but this imposes an upper limit in efficient acceleration.
From the DDF proposal you have different warp levels, err I mean supercruise levels. You accelerate slowly (14 min to reach top speed) but can break faster. Dropping out of supercruise at high levels is damaging. So you normally don't drop out but have to slow down first. Dunno how that works out when you get pulled out by another player though. Seems a bit inconsistent.
My position on this is relative to how great the visuals are
I don't think it is a question of it being dumbed down or being hard to master, it's that the efficiency of playing (scientifically measured in funsies per second I think) suffers from the frontier approach. I knew then how to get into dog fighting range but found it tedious to do so. The thing I wished most for was a lasso. Yeah that's right, a big space lasso to capture incoming ships and pull them to dogfighting speeds QUICKLY (I'm an impatient guy!). Yippi ya yeah
Instead I jousted simple because it was faster. Many players like to maximize their efficiency and the time spend on their play. Getting more efficient is part of the fun of gaining mastery. Min-maxing. So I steered towards the pixel, carefully aimed, accelerated like mad and mostly managed to shoot them in one go. I was efficient, but shooting pixels wasn't fun.
It would have been more fun if you could "lasso" an incoming enemy to get to combat speeds FAST and then shoot them down. Dropping out of supercruise is basically the same function as this "space lasso". I was a hardcore newtonian fan but I'm happy with this solution (depending on the limitations and especially visuals for super cruise
)Probably. I hope not. Anyone can tell me how is this in the beta? How fast can you spin?
I agree. If we want realism, we have real life
WHAT? You guys already have personal space ships over there in the UK???
PS: I don't think the network code prediction / extrapolation isn't really the main point for limiting speeds, since acceleration is constant and the only factor for the prediction. Solutions could have been found for that, like for any technical problem.
If it looks like zombie, and it sounds like zombie, it is indeed zombie Newtonian thread
Just let it go.
Just let it go.
As a semi-casual player myself, might I just say that I prefer the flight mechanics of the original 1980s one to Frontier's "newtonian" model.
Sure, I was an avid and probably very hardcore flight simmer back in the day (Falcon 3.0, Falcon 4.0, Back To Baghdad, Jane's flight sim series etc. Everything was set to max realism in the options), but that phase has passed and now I just wanna get in, shoot some stuff, and do something more fun than worrying about acceleration, turn rates, blah blah.
In other words, I want to turn my brains off. Fly-by-wire FTW! Let the on-board computer handle those! Just lemme point my ship where I want and it should go there, magically (or technologically).
For you guys who like Newtonian flight, I believe it has been mentioned time and again that you can turn the Flight Assist off. Feel free to leave it off. For me I'll leave it on and play my arcade ED and fly it like an atmospheric craft
Best possible thing to happen is that we get a toggle-key in-game to toggle it on or off at whim, a la Evochron Mercenary. So you can fly the ship like a plane and when in a fight, turn it on and off at whim to do your acrobatic moves to kill the other guy.
Sure, I was an avid and probably very hardcore flight simmer back in the day (Falcon 3.0, Falcon 4.0, Back To Baghdad, Jane's flight sim series etc. Everything was set to max realism in the options), but that phase has passed and now I just wanna get in, shoot some stuff, and do something more fun than worrying about acceleration, turn rates, blah blah.
In other words, I want to turn my brains off. Fly-by-wire FTW! Let the on-board computer handle those! Just lemme point my ship where I want and it should go there, magically (or technologically).
For you guys who like Newtonian flight, I believe it has been mentioned time and again that you can turn the Flight Assist off. Feel free to leave it off. For me I'll leave it on and play my arcade ED and fly it like an atmospheric craft
Best possible thing to happen is that we get a toggle-key in-game to toggle it on or off at whim, a la Evochron Mercenary. So you can fly the ship like a plane and when in a fight, turn it on and off at whim to do your acrobatic moves to kill the other guy.
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All this bickering is futile. It all boils down to the fact that mr. Braben himself wants the combat to be more Elite-like than Frontier-like. I'm happy with that goal, incidentally it is my preference too.
Not all people like that design decision, which is fine too.
It would be fun though, if the single player offline mode had possibility to ditch all MP/online restrictions. Newton all the way, no limits on velocity - you accelerate long enough at 20g, you get to 42c, no time dilation or causality paradoxes etc.
Not all people like that design decision, which is fine too.
It would be fun though, if the single player offline mode had possibility to ditch all MP/online restrictions. Newton all the way, no limits on velocity - you accelerate long enough at 20g, you get to 42c, no time dilation or causality paradoxes etc.
yes
Not planning on using Elite Dangerous on an application to become an Astronaut.
Maybe someone from space, or the future, could comment on how realistic the experience is for those concerned?
but that phase has passed and now I just wanna get in, shoot some stuff, and do something more fun than worrying about acceleration, turn rates, blah blah.
In other words, I want to turn my brains off. Fly-by-wire FTW! Let the on-board computer handle those! Just lemme point my ship where I want and it should go there, magically (or technologically).
For you guys who like Newtonian flight, I believe it has been mentioned time and again that you can turn the Flight Assist off. Feel free to leave it off. For me I'll leave it on and play my arcade ED and fly it like an atmospheric craft
Do I smell cannon fodder?...
It would be fun though, if the single player offline mode had possibility to ditch all MP/online restrictions. Newton all the way, no limits on velocity - you accelerate long enough at 20g, you get to 42c, no time dilation or causality paradoxes etc.
You said it Buster!
Do I smell cannon fodder?...
What makes you think "newtonian" will win over "arcade"?
In any case, point is moot. I'm an SP-Offline player.
Yes, absolutely! It's the easily the most fun I ever had in any space sim ever and I've played pretty much all of them.
Sure, there are some minor tweaks "needed" and they have done some already (and will keep on doing it during the alpha phase), but on the whole I think they have nailed it!
Of course this is always a matter of personal preferences so I don't expect everyone to like it...that's never going to happen no matter how it is implemented.
What makes you think "newtonian" will win over "arcade"?
In any case, point is moot. I'm an SP-Offline player.
No FoxTwo! Don't say that! Elite: Dangerous will be all about strong community. Any A-holes will be put down swiftly.
Diversity is the key to survival, as you very well know, so please join us, and make Elite: Dangerous a more beautiful place to be!
I'll guard your six any day commander!
(well, not every day. But often, if you need it
)I'll guard your six any day commander!
(well, not every day. But often, if you need it
I believe it has been said that it will always be possible to swap to the single player offline mode anyway if you decide it is not your bag.
So the way I see it, there is no reason what so ever not to start in Ironman, then make the call when you die whether to go into the All pot, and then check that out, and then if that is no good, go into the single player online (with the option to invite a select few), before finally giving up and going offline.
on the other hand, if you start in the SP Offline mode, I dont think you can transfer into the online world.
(please correct me if I am wrong).
So the way I see it, there is no reason what so ever not to start in Ironman, then make the call when you die whether to go into the All pot, and then check that out, and then if that is no good, go into the single player online (with the option to invite a select few), before finally giving up and going offline.
on the other hand, if you start in the SP Offline mode, I dont think you can transfer into the online world.
(please correct me if I am wrong).