We need the ability to form in-game clans

[EValve]

The hostile bases we'll encounter in Horizons, we actually have no clue what mechanic is at work, why are they hostile? Some will be due to simple mechanics, it's a covert pirate salvage operation base, destroy it! And that's about all I've seen on the subject of hostile bases.

Hostile Factions, that's a PP thing, and if you are aligned with any PP faction, you'll be Hostile to ALL other PP factions, even your own main faction like Federation/Alliance/Empire. I was with ALD, I was hostile to all other PP Empire factions, as well as every other PP faction, I was still able to buy my Clipper over in Sirius Corp space(discount!) and went from 1st rank Fed to CPO while Hostile to all the Fed factions while doing the Hutton Orbital CG. The only NPCs that attack you in that case are PP specific NPCs, they'll have some title/group name along with their name, indicates they are a PP faction specific NPC, only ones that attack you, and they'll attack you ANYWHERE you are, even your PP faction's home system.

Starports on planets will not be hostile, planetary bases are a different critter, and starports are really what player groups would want, and therein lies the problem. You can't allow them to have a static station that will cross the modes if they can control access, and they will demand that access control, without it, they don't actually control anything and that defeats the point of controlling said station.


FD already stated, these are all static across all modes, what happens in different instances varies, but a player controlled station will exist in all modes, so any exclusion lists it ha will exist across all modes, and that's not going to work, you'll annoy the mass of the playerbase, the single players not in groups, and that's business and game design suicide.

I fully agree with the idea a planet can not and should not be owned by means of it's main starport. I however do believe having your own "inflatable base" could be a strong feature with the potential to add depth.
The latter is what I would suggest as appearing ( or not at all ) as one of the salvage operations. Pillaging a clan's inflatable base. To the solo/group it would appear out of many just another mission, and in open just be that little place you can stock modules, stock some trade goods, minerals and dock ships.

That's exactly what Op's suggestion is about: "we are given a small outpost base on some random planet."
Dismissing his idea based on the premise that we don't want player controlled factions taking over systems & planets is strictly off-topic and irrelevant to his idea.

 

[Kristov]

I fully agree with the idea a planet can not and should not be owned by means of it's main starport. I however do believe having your own "inflatable base" could be a strong feature with the potential to add depth.
The latter is what I would suggest as appearing ( or not at all ) as one of the salvage operations. Pillaging a clan's inflatable base. To the solo/group it would appear out of many just another mission, and in open just be that little place you can stock modules, stock some trade goods, minerals and dock ships.

That's exactly what Op's suggestion is about: "we are given a small outpost base on some random planet."
Dismissing his idea based on the premise that we don't want player controlled factions taking over systems & planets is strictly off-topic and irrelevant to his idea.

But his idea is predicated ON players doing exactly those things, so how is it off topic? A GROUP getting and building up a base, etc?

As I said, that's almost something David said he WANTED to have ingame at the EGX 2014 presentation, direct answer to a question about guild support in Elite Dangerous. NO to guild support, YES, eventually, to a PLAYER having a station they own and call home at some point, and he was clear, a single player, as he's really NOT big on guild stuff at all of any sort, especially in 2014. Even now he's not REALLY into that stuff, he's seen what the Fuel Rats do, he's also aware of groups like The Code and what THEY do, so he's liking Fuel Rats and wants to give them some help, so he's going to do something that's NOT like any other game has done, per David at the Horizons stream a few weeks back, but he made no promises and gave no dates on that, so... Again, David doesn't like groups due to the exact things we're seeing being done by groups in Elite right now, THAT will always be sitting there in front of him when it comes to anything to do with groups and that's probably always going to counter the good groups.

Sucks, as ALL groups end up being punished due to the actions of a few, and those few don't really care. And that all falls back to the fact that David really designed a single player game, it's online and it's got multiplayer capability of a sort, but at it's heart, it's still a single player game. Me, I accepted that already and enjoy the game as it is, more multiplayer stuff would be awesome, but it is what it is and I'm not going to get upset over things it was obviously never meant to do not being added.

 

[Garbarrage]

NPC wingmen are coming, guess you missed that this is a single player online game?

Surely you mean "this is also a single player online game"? I'm sure I saw something, somewhere, maybe in the small print, about multi-player, or MMO... maybe I imagined it....

That part of my post was a reply to a post I cba finding to multiquote, but shared the sentiments of a few posts. Coming or not, it shouldn't be a condition of adding content to open mode.

 

[Kristov]

Surely you mean "this is also a single player online game"? I'm sure I saw something, somewhere, maybe in the small print, about multi-player, or MMO... maybe I imagined it....

That part of my post was a reply to a post I cba finding to multiquote, but shared the sentiments of a few posts. Coming or not, it shouldn't be a condition of adding content to open mode.

Nope, I meant exactly what I said, this is a single player game. It is online, and it does have multiplayer ability, but it's really a single player game for all that. It's Elite Dangerous, the next iteration of the Elite game line, all single player games designed by a man who makes, in my personal opinion, really awesome single player games. I'm sure if they thought they could sold this game purely as a single player game, they'd have done so, but the market just isn't there for that, so..hey, lets make it online, we'll allow people play with friends a bit, and not prohibit PvP if people really want to do it, and we'll use the worst possible networking option for the multiplayer stuff, P2P, so that PvP is a total joke and won't really appeal to anyone!

And, in typical blind consumer fashion, we have a very small group of players who think this is an actual PvP online game, and another small group who think it's all about teams, because none of them could be bothered to look at the game, it's design, how it plays, the man behind the game and the company making the game. Hell there's probably a small group of players waiting for the spell system to be implemented so they can be mages in space. That is NOT a joke, I'll wager there are actually people waiting for exactly that, since we've got people who swear up and down this is a PvP game and others who think it's a team game, why shouldn't people be waiting for spells?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

We have mode play for reasons...use it freely! Preferably, you will choose your mode based on your ability to deal with people when you log in to play..rather than when you get confronted with something that will make you upset. I know I decide my nightly forays into the game based on this criteria.

Dealing with people, fine. Dealing with guilds, no thanks. I'm very glad this game makes it impossible to blockade systems or have other players jump through hoops.

And if your solution to his complaint is: go play another mode, isn't that on par with: go play another game?

Do you feel playing another game is a viable solution to your issue of there not being player owned stations/commodities/etc in the game you play?

 

[Roybe]

Dealing with people, fine. Dealing with guilds, no thanks. I'm very glad this game makes it impossible to blockade systems or have other players jump through hoops.

And if your solution to his complaint is: go play another mode, isn't that on par with: go play another game?

Do you feel playing another game is a viable solution to your issue of there not being player owned stations/commodities/etc in the game you play?

This is the main reason why mode play is in this game. I play where I am comfortable..with the expectation that people make similar choices. Nothing more..nothing less. If you are going to get upset that someone will shoot you in the face in Open...it's highly suggested for your game enjoyment time to not take that risk..that day...or if you really have issues with it then you shouldn't be playing there ever...no reason to distress yourself unnecessarily.

There is no real way that guilds/clans...whatever, can exercise control so that is a strawman...you do not like it...great...it cannot, nor will it, ever occur in this game. You can avoid it by playing elsewhere or playing in private modes...again...as designed.

As has been clearly stated to the groups, the devs believe that any option is fine to handle any kind of play:

Avoidance
Face beatings to bordeom
PVE grinding in other modes to 'teach lessons'

Everyone needs to embrace this and move on. There is going to be some level of guilds/clans in this game. How they are going to work will be uniquely FDevs invention...however, the base game play will not change...play where you want to do what you want...in any mode you like.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

This is the main reason why mode play is in this game.

Let me stop you right there. The modes where not introduced to be able to avoid guilds.

There is no real way that guilds/clans...whatever, can exercise control so that is a strawman.

This is what it always boils down to.

There is definitely a subsection of those who want guilds who advocate the full enchilada complete with stations control over commodities and docking requests. On the other hand there are those who merely wish to have in game supported communication for their guild.

(edit: should have said, on the other end of the spectrum, since there's all kinds of variations in between)

Now I'll let you guess which one of those two doesn't bother me, and which one I really rather would not like in the game

Now the reason why my comment isn't a strawman is logic. If the type of guild you have in mind could not bother me, there's no reason for me to switch modes. That suggestion would only make sense if I could get bothered by guilds.

 

[Roybe]

Let me stop you right there. The modes where not introduced to be able to avoid guilds.


This is what it always boils down to.

There is definitely a subsection of those who want guilds who advocate the full enchilada complete with stations control over commodities and docking requests. On the other hand there are those who merely wish to have in game supported communication for their guild.

Now I'll let you guess which one of those two doesn't bother me, and which one I really rather would not like in the game

Now the reason why my comment isn't a strawman is logic. If the type of guild you have in mind could not bother me, there's no reason for me to switch modes. That suggestion would only make sense if I could get bothered by guilds.

Well I read your complaint in that you do not want to PVP...and if some guild wants to PVP you are unhappy. Don't PVP. Do not let yourself be unhappy over unwanted interactions with people...the reason that the modes exist...to avoid..or play with those that will not upset you.

We had a PVP guild camp in Lugh...we knew they were there...we might have even PVP'ed with them...but if we didn't want to...we played in PVE mode. Should we have been salty because we were 'forced' into PVE?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Well I read your complaint in that you do not want to PVP...and if some guild wants to PVP you are unhappy.

Wait, how did you get that idea?

I did say: Dealing with people, fine. Dealing with guilds, no thanks. And I do count most players to be people.

 

[Roybe]

Wait, how did you get that idea?

I did say: Dealing with people, fine. Dealing with guilds, no thanks. And I do count most players to be people.

What's the difference? Guilds are just groups of people...they might want to use a system as a PVP area...for everyone that comes into the system...they might call it 'protecting their system'...they might just call it 'no one allowed'...it's still PVP. You can either play PVP or avoid PVP...always your choice. You 'have' to get into that system...decide how your feeling about other players and play accordingly.

This is no different than Code's attempt at the New Carribean...great idea in theory...unenforceable in the end.

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

[NO] [THANKS]

[I've] [said] [this] [before] [but] [the] [last] [thing] [want] [to] [see] [are] [these] [TAGS] [plastered] [all] [over] [the] [game]. [This] [is] [ELITE] [not] [some] [game] [like] [Eve] [Online]. [Do] [you] [see] [how] [utterly] [annoying] [this] [can] [get]?

[Besides], [why] [have] [the] [moderators] [allowed] [this] [to] [be] [a] [new] [thread] [and] [not] [merged] [in] [with] [the] [GUILDS] [megathread]? [The] [mind] [boggles].

 

[Roybe]

[I've] [said] [this] [before] [but] [the] [last] [thing] [want] [to] [see] [are] [these] [TAGS] [plastered] [all] [over] [the] [game]. [This] [is] [ELITE] [not] [some] [game] [like] [Eve] [Online]. [Do] [you] [see] [how] [utterly] [annoying] [this] [can] [get]?

[Besides], [why] [have] [the] [moderators] [allowed] [this] [to] [be] [a] [new] [thread] [and] [not] [merged] [in] [with] [the] [GUILDS] [megathread]? [The] [mind] [boggles].

It's just mind over matter...if you do not mind it doesn't matter! Seriously...this isn't annoying at all...sorry!

One other thing...guild/clan/whatever is coming...so those that hate the idea really need to get a handle on the way you see this! Not sure how it's going to be implemented or when....but it is coming.

 

[aDuz]

[I've] [said] [this] [before] [but] [the] [last] [thing] [want] [to] [see] [are] [these] [TAGS] [plastered] [all] [over] [the] [game]. [This] [is] [ELITE] [not] [some] [game] [like] [Eve] [Online]. [Do] [you] [see] [how] [utterly] [annoying] [this] [can] [get]?

[Besides], [why] [have] [the] [moderators] [allowed] [this] [to] [be] [a] [new] [thread] [and] [not] [merged] [in] [with] [the] [GUILDS] [megathread]? [The] [mind] [boggles].

im guessing this has nothing to do with nametags, its quite easy to go into your FD account/steam and change your name. this is about real estate, owning stations and tax. then further down the line something like clan owned CAP ships multicrewd and "raiding" other clans systems.

im pretty sure in the early days D.B. said clans wouldnt be in the game, but the the exodus from EVE has been leaning on F.D.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

What's the difference? Guilds are just groups of people...they might want to use a system as a PVP area...for everyone that comes into the system...they might call it 'protecting their system'...they might just call it 'no one allowed'...it's still PVP. You can either play PVP or avoid PVP...always your choice. You 'have' to get into that system...decide how your feeling about other players and play accordingly.

Again:

There is definitely a subsection of those who want guilds who advocate the full enchilada complete with stations control over commodities and docking requests.

Last time I played, groups of people could not do this. So that's a clear difference.

I assumed you are aware that there are players who are advocating for the above?

On the other hand there are those who merely wish to have in game supported communication for their guild.

Which is fine by me. As I already strongly implied.

Not sure how it's going to be implemented or when....but it is coming.

And what I've heard from the Brabester about it, I'll probably be fine with that as well.


edit; And the solution for tags is easy. Make them optional.

 

[Talarin]

Nope, I meant exactly what I said, this is a single player game. It is online, and it does have multiplayer ability, but it's really a single player game for all that. It's Elite Dangerous, the next iteration of the Elite game line, all single player games designed by a man who makes, in my personal opinion, really awesome single player games. I'm sure if they thought they could sold this game purely as a single player game, they'd have done so, but the market just isn't there for that, so..hey, lets make it online, we'll allow people play with friends a bit, and not prohibit PvP if people really want to do it, and we'll use the worst possible networking option for the multiplayer stuff, P2P, so that PvP is a total joke and won't really appeal to anyone!

No, that's simply not true. The game was and is marketed as a multiplayer game. Even now, on the main website the very first line of the game description reads: "Elite Dangerous is the definitive massively multiplayer space epic." So it's inevitable that where there are shortfalls in the functionality of the multiplayer aspect of the game then the community will clamour for improvements.

And, in typical blind consumer fashion, we have a very small group of players who think this is an actual PvP online game, and another small group who think it's all about teams, because none of them could be bothered to look at the game, it's design, how it plays, the man behind the game and the company making the game. Hell there's probably a small group of players waiting for the spell system to be implemented so they can be mages in space. That is NOT a joke, I'll wager there are actually people waiting for exactly that, since we've got people who swear up and down this is a PvP game and others who think it's a team game, why shouldn't people be waiting for spells?

Massively multiplayer suggests both PVP and player groupings, and if it doesn't then people will ask for it - because there's no point in it being properly massively multiplayer without the mechanisms for interacting meaningfully with other players.

In an effort to move the conversation on though, it's likely that the worst fears of the players who don't want to see player groups in the game won't be realised. David Braben said in his last Q&A that we'd see something but it wouldn't be like other games - which directly contradicts your opinion of what the game is supposed to be (as in, essentially a single player experience). We assume that his reluctance has been based around similar fears to those expressed in this thread about the more toxic nature of what player groups can be (plus we assume that any development in this area would be aimed at improving the experience of those players who don't want to be directly involved with other players in this way).

So you can infer that whatever improvements are made in this area, they'll be designed not to allow the sort of behaviour that people are so worried about.

If it were me, I'd expand what we can do with minor factions - perhaps pinching some of the functionality applied to powerplay. Let players directly and visibly associate with minor factions, combined with the recent introduction of player-generated minor factions -> gives players a sense of identity without disrupting the game experience of others. Assets perhaps created and owned by the minor faction, influenced by player voting and/or actions but not directly owned by the player group.

Solo players can associate with in-game minor factions already present, but perhaps are barred from joining player-created minor factions without some sort of approvals process. Same functionality and benefits applied to both groups (so any discounts, mission granting preferences etc).

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

im guessing this has nothing to do with nametags, its quite easy to go into your FD account/steam and change your name. this is about real estate, owning stations and tax. then further down the line something like clan owned CAP ships multicrewd and "raiding" other clans systems.

im pretty sure in the early days D.B. said clans wouldnt be in the game, but the the exodus from EVE has been leaning on F.D.

Yes - exactly the types of things that shouldn't be in an Elite-based game, turning it into not-Elite.

Look, mods, there's already a guilds/clans megathread - why allow this one to grow bigger? There's nothing being said here which hasn't been argued about before.

My last post to this thread.

 

[Don Alvarez]

I had a dream I was playing Lotro the other night, and my group was running Sammath Gul. Instead of our usual characters though, we were flying down the halls in Vultures. Gorothul didn't last long under a hail of plasma accelerators.
-
Couldn't loot the chest though. Needed collector limpets.

 

[W4rSkuLL]

[I've] [said] [this] [before] [but] [the] [last] [thing] [want] [to] [see] [are] [these] [TAGS] [plastered] [all] [over] [the] [game]. [This] [is] [ELITE] [not] [some] [game] [like] [Eve] [Online]. [Do] [you] [see] [how] [utterly] [annoying] [this] [can] [get]?

[Besides], [why] [have] [the] [moderators] [allowed] [this] [to] [be] [a] [new] [thread] [and] [not] [merged] [in] [with] [the] [GUILDS] [megathread]? [The] [mind] [boggles].

[think][with][naming ship][you][may][see][this][in][front][of][the][ships][name][but][am][just][speculating][or][in][Elite][terms][crystal balling][]
[Though][think][have][many][good][suggestions][]

 

[TRLOS]

"Go away this is my area of space"."pay me 100 tax" Little Hitlers trying to run the game. All that palaver was in eve O been there played that. Its nice to have ED different than the mainstream formula.

Another person blowing this up beyond what was originally intended.
Does no-one read the actual thread to see what its about ? I guess reading the subject line and making up stories in your head is more fun.

 

[TRLOS]

I was fairly convinced OP mentioned exactly that, a base with upgrades to defense, trading and upkeep. Which would reflect in solo/group mode in the exact same manner of an AI base. Independent of player interaction. This won't mess, instead add a sense of difficulty and loot for the sheer nature of it's being: player "constructed". I didn't mean to imply an access list as a feature. It's already here in some sort, have common ground with the clan? They'll let you pass through their system. Same would be in Open play when interacting with their base. Nothing new. In solo, well again it reflects just like an AI base.

Thank you. At least someone gets it.

It is basically allowing clans to build their bases up (aesthetically). For example, fuels rats building a bases with fuel storage tanks everywhere, or The Code building up base with rows upon rows of defense turrets.
The actual mechanic/function of the base will all be AI controlled, just like space ports are right now.