Why the heck are C2 plasma accelerators so awful?

I hated my Huge Plasma accelerator initially, trying to use it caused me a LOT of troublesome consequences BUT once I started to get used to aiming it then I began to love it. It stays on my ship!
It'll drop most shields in one shot by the way.
 
Turns out the medium plasma accelerator is, as I suspected, indeed not functioning as it's supposed to. An exert from a discussion I was having with Mark Allen:
"Yeah the plasma accelerator damage was set a bit strangely - each one was doing a different damage type... some copy paste errors there :p. Has already been caught and should be fixed for 1.5 though."
Pretty excited to give the thing a go in the impending beta. I'd certainly love to have plasma accelerators become a practical choice for smaller craft.

Oh nice! Looking forward to testing it out in the beta. All plasma FAS maybe?

Yup, as it turns out - I was wrong... which I'm very happy to be.

So the C2 PA was only doing kinetic damage - which explains why it basically didn't do much against shields. It also explains why it was effective vs hull and subsystems. It's also interesting that the larger classes of PA were doing a single kind of damage themselves - thermal only (as listed in outfitting)? So PA's are supposed to do both - thermal/kinetic? This makes sense, what with plasma being superheated ionised gas (i.e. we're firing miniature suns at other ships).

It also makes them even better than anyone thought.

I much prefer the PA's faster projectile speed over the cannon. WEP power issues generally don't come up, since by the time I've lined up another shot, enough has come back to fire again if I'm managing my pips correctly. Of course, the penetration characteristics are still opaque to us. I've got my 102 armour Eagle set up as a target and a friend was going to be shooting me up... but it looks like it'll be better to wait till after the beta changes are finalised before trying to make any kind of damage chart. On that... I'm also going to have to rework the 102 armour Eagle, since it uses a Hull Reinforcement Package, and the most recent update is that those now add kinetic and thermal resistance as well... anyone know the closest method of getting 100 armour without using Hull Reinforcement? Sidey, with 108, looks like the best option now. An unmodified Keelback, with 198 armour and halve the % hull damage might be more accurate, but that would throw up the penetration/hardness issue on ship size again.
 
Really, the 108 armour sidewinder should be fine. We know its hardness is very low, do you don't have to worry about that reducing the damage done. Btw, thermal does 120% damage to shields, and 100% damage to standard armour, while kinetic does 60% damage to shields, and 120% damage to standard armour. Those values are straight from a dev in a PM conversation.
 
Really, the 108 armour sidewinder should be fine. We know its hardness is very low, do you don't have to worry about that reducing the damage done. Btw, thermal does 120% damage to shields, and 100% damage to standard armour, while kinetic does 60% damage to shields, and 120% damage to standard armour. Those values are straight from a dev in a PM conversation.

Thanks so much - that's hugely helpful! Interesting that thermal does 100% damage to standard armour. I don't suppose the values vs shields/standard armour for explosive damage got mentioned too? :)
 
Thanks so much - that's hugely helpful! Interesting that thermal does 100% damage to standard armour. I don't suppose the values vs shields/standard armour for explosive damage got mentioned too? :)
10% to shields, 140% to standard armor. Want to test C2 plasmas in beta, now? I'm available at the founders world. In-game name is Frenotx.
 
Hey, could anybody clarify how hull damage works for railguns? I know it is thermal/kinetic, so in theory, same damage against shield and hull...

I tried yesterday a 5x railguns configuration on my Python:

- Yep, quoted at 43 MJ of shield damage per shot, it did not take long to take down the shield of this dangerous NPC Python.

- But against the hull, targeting the power plant, sometimes I took almost 30% of his hull nailing the 5 shots, sometimes, less than 10%... I thought that I had hit some sybsystems, which took damage instead of the hull, but when the hull dropped to 0% (and it took me a lot of shots, much more than for dropping his shield), his power plant was damaged at 60% only.

- And yep, my temperature rose to nearly 400% (I did not use heatsinks) in the end, but I lost only about 10% hull and between 10-40% of various modules. So not a bad setup when you do not plan to score many kill (in PvP bounty hunting for instance).

- Tried against some low rank Adder/Sidewinder's, and surprisingly nailing the 5 shots did not take them down.

Oh, BTW, I do confirm that 3 C3 Plasma Accelerators do the expected damage to hull :)
 
Last edited:
Hey, could anybody clarify how hull damage works for railguns? I know it is thermal/kinetic, so in theory, same damage against shield and hull...

I tried yesterday a 5x railguns configuration on my Python:

- Yep, quoted at 43 MJ of shield damage per shot, it did not take long to take down the shield of this dangerous NPC Python.

- But against the hull, targeting the power plant, sometimes I took almost 30% of his hull nailing the 5 shots, sometimes, less than 10%... I thought that I had hit some sybsystems, which took damage instead of the hull, but when the hull dropped to 0% (and it took me a lot of shots, much more than for dropping his shield), his power plant was damaged at 60% only.

- And yep, my temperature rose to nearly 400% (I did not use heatsinks) in the end, but I lost only about 10% hull and between 10-40% of various modules. So not a bad setup when you do not plan to score many kill (in PvP bounty hunting for instance).

- Tried against some low rank Adder/Sidewinder's, and surprisingly nailing the 5 shots did not take them down.

Oh, BTW, I do confirm that 3 C3 Plasma Accelerators do the expected damage to hull :)
Thermokinetic weapons have a thermal component, and a kinetic component. Just think of it as two discrete attacks (a thermal one and a kinetic one) happening at the same time. Rail guns have fabulous penetration, so as the hull wears down on your target, there is an increasingly high chance that your shot will pierce the hull, and hit something. You can hit subsystems other than the one you're targeting- including subsystems that are already at 0%. If your shot pierces the hull, the majority of the damage goes to whatever module gets hit, instead of the hull. The end result is that rail guns aren't great at destroying hulls, since a lot of their damage ends up just hitting stuff inside. They are great for taking down shields and sniping modules, though.
 
10% to shields, 140% to standard armor. Want to test C2 plasmas in beta, now? I'm available at the founders world. In-game name is Frenotx.


Hah, I'd love to! I've been wanting to get shot up in the name of science. Unfortunately, the closest I can get is LFT 926, since I'm not a founder nor Elite in any rank. But I'm heading over there, and hopefully timings can be worked out. And thank you for the explosive damage info!

In-game name is Jynessa Loraeyn.
 
Last edited:
Oh nice! Looking forward to testing it out in the beta. All plasma FAS maybe?

Just tried that today actually. Well, in a FDL.

I've had great success in pvp 1v1's with a 4 class 2 plasma FDL (with class 4 cannon underneath) Can knock out about a ring of shields of another FDL if all the shots connect. More if they don't have pips to systems. Wasn't quite sure of my opponent's loadout though.

A hit-and-run weapon for sure when used in-mass. The capacitor has about 2 volleys in it before you've got to recharge. However, in a joust or 1v1 you can spend that recharge time evading and repositioning. You also only get about two shots before you pass and have to turn, so it's no big loss.

My opponent and I also noticed that these things knock-out the cockpit like nothing else when the entire salvo connects. Also does about 10% damage to a HRP armor-tank FAS (when the entire salvo of 4 connects). In all our duels we ran with class-2 plasma, our canopies were destroyed near the endgame.

I'm loving the relatively fast projectile speed. I'd take class 2 PA's over cannons. Though it's a shame that the FDL's capacitor can't handle all 5 hardpoints as PA's. (well, you could probably downgrade the bottom to a class 3 and make it work).

Also I prefer the wider spread and slightly faster ROF of class 2's over the single-megadamage-shot class 4, but I suspect it'll come down to personal preference.
 
Last edited:
It appears that the C2 plasma does about ~57 MJ shield damage per shot, costing ~9.5 MJ wep capacitor each. That's about 6 damage per energy, which puts its efficiency right between the C4 and C3 plasma. This seems perfectly reasonable. I am quite pleased with this change.

EDIT: This is in the 1.5 beta, for clarification.
 
Last edited:
It appears that the C2 plasma does about ~57 MJ shield damage per shot, costing ~9.5 MJ wep capacitor each. That's about 6 damage per energy, which puts its efficiency right between the C4 and C3 plasma. This seems perfectly reasonable. I am quite pleased with this change.
Oh, they have changed this in 1.5 you mean?
So far, C2 plasma had been tested at 27 MJ per shot...did FD double that? Was it bugged previously? ;)

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Why do 'mericans love DPM graphs so much ?
Because without accurate data, how would you know what does what? Have you ever seen a RPG without stats / numbers? And since FD does not provide any accurate numbers...
You know, some people still believe that beam lasers do twice the damage output as pulse...
 
Last edited:
Why do 'mericans love DPM graphs so much ?
Graphs are a hand way of visually comparing various weapons, and making more intelligent decisions when trying to fit weapons for a specific purpose / feel.

Oh, they have chaged this in 1.5 you mean?
So far, plasm had been tested at 27 MJ per shot...did FD double that? Was it bugged previously? ;)
Yes, they were bugged. A "copy paste" error by the devs, apparently. It has been resolved in 1.5, so they're now doing the damage that they're supposed to.
 
Graphs are a hand way of visually comparing various weapons, and making more intelligent decisions when trying to fit weapons for a specific purpose / feel.


Yes, they were bugged. A "copy paste" error by the devs, apparently. It has been resolved in 1.5, so they're now doing the damage that they're supposed to.
Damn, almost a year to fix that..? Oh boy...
 
Damn, almost a year to fix that..? Oh boy...
Well the problem is that it "worked", it's just the damage was wrong. Since the data provided in-game is pretty limited, it's a little hard to pick up on these things- especially when the numbers are on a weapon that's not terribly popular to begin with.

Also, just going to point out that with the C2 plasma fixed, vipers, cobras, and diamondback scouts are capable of doing (at the cost of over half their capacitor) ~114 damage in a singe shot- that's only 12 or so off from a huge plasma accelerator. Sounds like a pretty sick dive bombing setup.
 
Last edited:
Also, just going to point out that with the C2 plasma fixed, vipers, cobras, and diamondback scouts are capable of doing (at the cost of over half their capacitor) ~114 damage in a singe shot- that's only 12 or so off from a huge plasma accelerator. Sounds like a pretty sick dive bombing setup.
That, is exactly what I was dreaming about when I used to fly my lightweight paper shield Cobra at conflict zones, flying around 450 m/s spotting Pythons and Anacondas that happened to have lost their shield...
 
This is why I sort of wish there was a rock paper scissors style format for this game. Right now its pretty much shields or hull, thermic or kinetic. We need something like an EMP weapon or a Ion cannon.

The old Xwing Vs Tie Fighter did it simply and effectively. Right now all the weapons are pretty equal and you really don't see a huge impact using the right weapon on the right target. The fun would be in finding out which weakness that ship had. For example if that ship was polarizing its shields negatively, if you had the right charge on your weapons you could take them down extremely fast. If not you could switch frequencies to be more effective.

As a counter the enemy could see you were using an effective shield damaging method and re-polarize their shields.

Moving shields from front to aft as well is something missing in this game. I just want there to be more than pew pew and a strategy for fighting since it takes about 2-5 mins to take down a medium to larger ship might as well have something fun to do, and possible a purpose for a multi-crew ship.
 
This is why I sort of wish there was a rock paper scissors style format for this game. Right now its pretty much shields or hull, thermic or kinetic. We need something like an EMP weapon or a Ion cannon.

The old Xwing Vs Tie Fighter did it simply and effectively. Right now all the weapons are pretty equal and you really don't see a huge impact using the right weapon on the right target. The fun would be in finding out which weakness that ship had. For example if that ship was polarizing its shields negatively, if you had the right charge on your weapons you could take them down extremely fast. If not you could switch frequencies to be more effective.

As a counter the enemy could see you were using an effective shield damaging method and re-polarize their shields.

Moving shields from front to aft as well is something missing in this game. I just want there to be more than pew pew and a strategy for fighting since it takes about 2-5 mins to take down a medium to larger ship might as well have something fun to do, and possible a purpose for a multi-crew ship.
Great suggestions!

Hope to see these implemented in the release of Elite : Deadly in about a decade.
Now, could we please go back to realistic tweaks to balance the current game the way it should for the next 4.0 update?

(Kidding...or not...)
 
Since it looks like people in this thread have some good numbers to back them up, has someone filed a bug? Now with the beta going on is probably the best time to get this looked at, especially if the fix is just changing a couple numbers in a table.
 
Back
Top Bottom