The transition for the planetary landings

[Arithon]

If the sequence is:-

Hyperspace jump to system -> Super-cruise to planet -> drop from super-cruise to orbital cruise, then land.

But if the sequence is:-

Hyperspace jump to system -> Super-cruise to planet -> drop from super-cruise to normal space -> approach planet to a set distance, then drop to orbital cruise, then land.

That's a transition too many in my opinion. It would be better from a player perspective (not knowing the development hurdles) to only have one super-cruise drop transition, rather than two.

I'm not going to get upset about it, but a sneak peek video or some clarification from Frontier might head off a great deal of unnecessary complaining.

 

[Tinman]

Michaels quote might imply that the transition is similar or that same as that currently from SC to normal space, but not the dev update you quoted.

I meant when adding together the comment from Michael with the dev update...it came from the same thread.

I was referring to other statements and answers where "will it be seamless?" was answered with "yes". I hope you believe me that I normally don't make those claims without having the appropriate quotes at hand, so if I can muster the motivation to do so I will search for it (although you might have it at hand somewhere already)

This all boils down too what "seamless" means. The gameworld will be seamless (as we have already seen in videos) and therefore there is no loading screen in the sense of what can be seen in for example Fallout when entering/exiting a building. There will of course be a transition when switching network instances, but since you are changing modes of flight there has to be anyway for things to make sense.

Comparing to Infinity: Battlescape...there the transition is very minimal (there still is one though), but this is simply because everyone is playing in the same instance at all times no matter where they are. Therefore no switching of instance needs to be made and thus seamless transition. The same would be true in ED if the same solution was used...however. This works in Infinity due to the "battleareana gameplay" and the fact that everyone stay in the same star system at all times, but this way of grouping players wouldn't work as good in ED (or in the theoretical Infinity MMO IMO). This picture explains why...

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One of the biggest challenges with making a truly 1:1 scale representation of the galaxy and then have people play inside this in a multiplayer setting is to maximize interactions between players. ED has obviously gone with the tactic of only connecting to people in direct vicinity that you can actually interact with. You being connected to another random player who has dropped into a USS somewhere adds almost nothing to your experience and that "player slot" would be of better to reserve for someone entering the same location as you're in. This is IMO why they have chosen their way of splitting people up in smaller instances instead of star system wide ones. This is good, but this also means that more switches between these needs to happen as you move across the system. This really can't be helped and this would be true no matter what network solution would be used for player connections (P2P/serverbased).

I am also not sure why being nearer the planet surface would make the drop less jarring. If anything, I'd rather think the larger number of visual reference points - mountains, ravines and other surface features - suddenly stopping to move for a few seconds would make it more jarring than just a large textured ball becoming motionless for the same amount of time.

About the same then since the speed will also slow as you approach the surface.

 

[Fost]

The whole thing is fine conceptually - you need to drop out of supercruise and enter 'normal' space to land - it's just that the whole pause/shakeshake boom drop out needs smoothing out. Not losing control of the ship would be a start in helping that.

 

[Noogillim]

Something is confusing me - not a moan just an observation.

Currently we have

FSD - Hyperspace wormholey type travel
SuperCruise system fast travel
Normal in system travel

There is a lot of talk of Supercruise to Orbital Cruise

I would have thought that you'd go from normal in system travel to orbital cruise ie the bodies are already there in your instance with the nearest body already loaded making it available to land on or at least by the time you get to descend the planetary detail loading imps are pedalling furiously in the background.

So this begs the question are normal in system travel (flying to a station asteroids etc) and orbital cruise two differing modes?

What happens if you fly from station to planet?

 

[Tinman]

If the sequence is:-

Hyperspace jump to system -> Super-cruise to planet -> drop from super-cruise to orbital cruise, then land.

But if the sequence is:-

Hyperspace jump to system -> Super-cruise to planet -> drop from super-cruise to normal space -> approach planet to a set distance, then drop to orbital cruise, then land.

That's a transition too many in my opinion. It would be better from a player perspective (not knowing the development hurdles) to only have one super-cruise drop transition, rather than two.

I'm not going to get upset about it, but a sneak peek video or some clarification from Frontier might head off a great deal of unnecessary complaining.

It's neither of those...

It's:

Hyperspace jump to system -> Super-cruise to planet and then smoothly enter orbital cruise -> drop to normal flight when close to the surface (roughly 2km up based on the lastest video from David, check the altimeter to the right...), then land.

As far as the game is concerned orbital cruise is the same thing as supercruise, just gradually slower the closer you get to the surface.

 

[Mephane]

Turn off engines and you will fall. The question is if you will stop accelerating when you hit your maximum ship's speed.

Now that is an interesting question. My guess is you will be able to exceed your normal flight speeds, have horrid maneuvrability, and if you fail to decelerate to manageable speed in time, you become a nice little crater.

Actually, I can't imagine them implementing a terminal velocity on airless worlds. That'd be so wrong. Especially if its dependent on the ship's own maximum flight speed.

 

[Jynessa Loraeyn]

Just a point of note, this does of course mean we will be protected from doing the classic Frontier slam into the planet surface at huge speed death. We will just get the "too close" message and drop out of orbital cruise, either with hull damage if travelling too quickly, or not.

This is a pretty good thing. Players losing millions from this was one thing I used to worry about.

Of course, we will still be able to slam boost to our deaths... And I'm sure there will be plenty posts about that.

You know, I'm not 100% sure we're going to be protected from that first one either

It might be that's the case... but I seem to remember a few things that might mean it's not...

1. Orbital Cruise sounds like it could only cut out fairly low down in altitude terms. If so, this leads onto...

2. We all know what emergency FSD cut-outs are like. We come out tumbling. If this is also the case when emergency stopping at low-ish altitude under the effect of gravity...

3. We've been told that the flight model is affected by gravity, especially for larger ships. As long as they stay aligned with the horizon, their thrusters can manage, but we were told a bit too much pitch and roll can cause the ship to start 'slipping'... now combine that knowledge with coming out of orbital cruise tumbling at low altitude in say... a Type 9...

I'd like to think we're going to have some seconds to try to bring the ship out of her tumble before she pancakes onto the surface, which could make for some very cool 'OHGODOHGODOHGODOHGODOHGOD' out of control desperate spin piloting.

I guess it really comes down to when exactly Orbital Cruise is forced to cut out because our FSD is overwhelmed by the nearby mass of the planet. Exactly how high above the ground does that happen?

Looking forward to finding out

 

[Tinman]

What happens if you fly from station to planet?

You fly...for a really long time...and then land.

 

[DanTheMan]

Don't care how they manage it really, getting down onto the surface and being able to go "dune-buggy-crazy" is all I am looking for.
Apart from PP and CQC the "real Elite" has not disappointed me so far.

Roll on planetary landings.

 

[Jynessa Loraeyn]

It's neither of those...

It's:

Hyperspace jump to system -> Super-cruise to planet and then smoothly enter orbital cruise -> drop to normal flight when close to the surface (roughly 2km up based on the lastest video from David, check the altimeter to the right...), then land.

As far as the game is concerned orbital cruise is the same thing as supercruise, just gradually slower the closer you get to the surface.

Yeah, from what I could tell, orbital cruise is basically supercruise - there's no transition between them, it's just your flight ladder and altimeter appear... and presumably it naturally slows you down as you get closer and closer to the FSD-interfering mass of the planet... until eventually the FSD is struggling too much and the frame shift collapses and you have to use normal flight with your thrusters again.

 

[Jason S]

I will deal with it.

1 up for infinity battlescape though as that has zero wait time.

 

[kiario]

Now that is an interesting question. My guess is you will be able to exceed your normal flight speeds, have horrid maneuvrability, and if you fail to decelerate to manageable speed in time, you become a nice little crater.

Actually, I can't imagine them implementing a terminal velocity on airless worlds. That'd be so wrong. Especially if its dependent on the ship's own maximum flight speed.

For sure the game design in planetary flight will never let you fly faster than the normal space flight for the given ship. And yes this means a terminal velocity cap. So you wull never be able to freefall faster than your ship can fly straight

 

[CmdrJacks]

For sure the game design in planetary flight will never let you fly faster than the normal space flight for the given ship. And yes this means a terminal velocity cap. So you wull never be able to freefall faster than your ship can fly straight

It would have to be exceedingly fun forme to forgive that. Prepare for ragequit.

 

[Cyda]

I'm cool with being like this, it is pretty much as expected, not sure why anyone thought it would be any different than this.

 

[lysan]

You fly...for a really long time...and then land.

Yes, I remember that DB said at some point, that they want to make a additional interplanetary flight model.

it was not SC mode, more like a fast linear travel option like in the first ED trailer.

 

[Varrag]

But the point is - normal space seems to be seamless.
[...]
Anyone else tried flying one station to another?

I didn't try to fly from one station to another in normal space, but I tried to move from one planetary ring to another and it didn't work. FSD has to be engaged in order to switch instance/frame of referrence (hence the name, frame shift drive). So, at least in this case, space is not really seamless: it's series of different instances attached to each celestial body; possibly the stations as well.

 

[Ydiss]

Turn off engines and you will fall. The question is if you will stop accelerating when you hit your maximum ship's speed.

In normal flight, it'll be exactly the same as it is now. You only need to watch the most recent sneak peek video to see this. We don't know exactly how things will handle if you turn off forward thrusters (gravitational compensation hasn't been fully explained yet) but it's obvious that the maximum speed of all ships is going to be more than enough to navigate locally and fly up, away from the planet.

As I said, if you wish to leave the planet, or get to the other side of the planet quickly, you fly up to gain altitude. At a certain altitude (we don't know what this is yet, but assume it won't be much higher than 1-10km), your orbital cruise can be engaged. At that point, you'll be able to fly very quickly around the planet or up and away until you're no longer mass locked.

Whilst we don't know the exact functionality or limitations of the orbital drive, what we do know tells us that quickly navigating around planets and entering or leaving orbit will be as easy as it is now to leave a station's mass lock and clicking a button.

It'll just be over different distances. And you'll have the freedom to scoot around the planet at high speeds, should you desire.

But sure, normal flight will take a long time to navigate an entire planet, depending on the size of that planet. We can currently travel 1km in about 2-3 seconds. A planet the size of Earth would take 33 hours to circumnavigate at this speed.

But that's why we will have orbital cruise. My guess is the maximum speed will be something above the minimum speed of super cruise (30kms). Maybe 500kms (5 mins to circumnavigate Earth).

 

[OnePercent]

The sequence is basically Supercruise to planet, Begin slow supercruise (orbital cruise) then exit supercruise into normal space. Just like how we exit supercruise right now. Jarring and totally not seamless.

Disappointed, Since braben always aimed for a game without breaks in gameplay (hence 1:1 scale worlds, yet it's kinda counter active how they made the game with these hard instance loading screens).

Unfortunate that they build supercruise in a way like this, they could have just allowed a mechanic that removes the speed cap in normal space and implemented a control scheme with that in mind. (what is the point of 1:1 scale worlds if each time you go somewhere it feels like opening a door to the next "room" anyway?)

I like the way infinity battlescape does it. Though it is a completely different game with different networking. FD could have done a better job at "Seamlessness".

 

[Cynaqq]

The sequence is basically Supercruise to planet, Begin slow supercruise (orbital cruise) then exit supercruise into normal space. Just like how we exit supercruise right now. Jarring and totally not seamless.

Disappointed, Since braben always aimed for a game without breaks in gameplay (hence 1:1 scale worlds, yet it's kinda counter active how they made the game with these hard instance loading screens).

Unfortunate that they build supercruise in a way like this, they could have just allowed a mechanic that removes the speed cap in normal space and implemented a control scheme with that in mind. (what is the point of 1:1 scale worlds if each time you go somewhere it feels like opening a door to the next "room" anyway?)

I like the way infinity battlescape does it. Though it is a completely different game with different networking. FD could have done a better job at "Seamlessness".

Now let's place our fists on our hearts and mourn the lost possibilities that we sacrificed in order to actually have 1:1 scale planets with 1:1 scale distances between them in a 1:1 scale galaxy with 400 000 000 000 star systems housing an MMO environment.

What is '1:1 scale planets with 1:1 scale distances between them in a 1:1 scale galaxy with 400 000 000 000 star systems housing an MMO environment' without 'true samlessness'!

Oh what it could be! If only we had dedicated server based networking in a single solar system! Oh "true seamlesness", where art thou!

 

[AdriánGuth]

The sequence is basically Supercruise to planet, Begin slow supercruise (orbital cruise) then exit supercruise into normal space. Just like how we exit supercruise right now. Jarring and totally not seamless.

Disappointed, Since braben always aimed for a game without breaks in gameplay (hence 1:1 scale worlds, yet it's kinda counter active how they made the game with these hard instance loading screens).

Unfortunate that they build supercruise in a way like this, they could have just allowed a mechanic that removes the speed cap in normal space and implemented a control scheme with that in mind. (what is the point of 1:1 scale worlds if each time you go somewhere it feels like opening a door to the next "room" anyway?)

I like the way infinity battlescape does it. Though it is a completely different game with different networking. FD could have done a better job at "Seamlessness".

because activate a curvature engine like the fsd wouldnt make any change in real life. lol