Powerplay Faction: Denton Patreus Patreus strategy
- Thread starter Gusty
- Start date
Which part of what I said was false?
That if we did not fortify Smei Tsu last cycle, we would have had to fortify more systems than we did?
Or that doing so would have prevented us from undermining Yuror further. Be specific. What did I say that is wrong?
You always retreat to this vague "you can't follow me" nonsense when people press you to provide specific details.
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Childish response in the extreme, empty of any meaningful content.
You're a waste of type.
I don't really understand the issue, when i had more time to play at the start of this cycle i did 5 runs to Smei Tsu with 100 tons of supplies each without a problem. It's trigger is pretty high, but it gives us way more CC than other systems. When i logged out, after fortifying, it was about 875/8000ish fortified. If I did 500 tons by myself and someone else did the other 375 in the first hours of the cycle, we have to conclude that it's not that hard to fortify.
In my Type-6 (that's a 4 million credits ship), it takes about 6-7 jumps fully laden to get there. You can even buy gold and sell it back next to Eotienses (at LTT 911), for about 120k creds of profit.
In my Type-6 (that's a 4 million credits ship), it takes about 6-7 jumps fully laden to get there. You can even buy gold and sell it back next to Eotienses (at LTT 911), for about 120k creds of profit.
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I've been doing fortification runs to, mainly, Smei Tsu for many weeks now. I probably manage to put in 800-1000 merits per cycle. Ok not great, but then that's usually all the time I have to do powerplay. My main aim is to retain my rank 4 (there is no way I have enough time or money to even think of trying for rank 5). I could do that quicker and easier by merit farming closer to home (or fast tracking which I don't do as it costs me cash) but a few extra jumps out to Smei Tsu when I have a full cargo hold really isn't that arduous a task, and fortifying the system is important and since I have a Python I can get there with a good cargo load (~275t) so I spend a little bit extra time doing a few more jumps in order to help out my power.
OP, you ask me to "Just build your own opinion by looking the facts". Ok, I've looked at the facts. It really only takes a very basic understanding of maths to see why Smei Tsu is important. The case for fortifying it is sound and logical, the case against ... well, I really don't understand the case against it. All I see is no understanding of PP strategy and a number of baseless accusations against various commanders/groups.
Therefore I shall continue to fortify Smei Tsu as needed.
And I would like to put out a personal thank you to all the Patreus community sub-reddit lot who try their best to direct efforts, even in the face of such nonsense attacks (as demonstrated in this thread). Keep up the good work and don't let the idiots get you down!
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OP, you ask me to "Just build your own opinion by looking the facts". Ok, I've looked at the facts. It really only takes a very basic understanding of maths to see why Smei Tsu is important. The case for fortifying it is sound and logical, the case against ... well, I really don't understand the case against it. All I see is no understanding of PP strategy and a number of baseless accusations against various commanders/groups.
Therefore I shall continue to fortify Smei Tsu as needed.
And I would like to put out a personal thank you to all the Patreus community sub-reddit lot who try their best to direct efforts, even in the face of such nonsense attacks (as demonstrated in this thread). Keep up the good work and don't let the idiots get you down!
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Some additional information that plays into this discussion --> https://www.reddit.com/r/ElitePatre...eus_powerplay_and_the_background_simmulation/
You switched units (to made-up ones) mid-calculation to arrive at this result.
It's 23 (not 21) bare-minimum rank 5 CMDRs worth of fortification effort. That does not translate to 23 actual CMDRs, incidentally. This was arrived at by dividing 123378 by 5334 (bare minimum needed to hit rank 5).
8302 (smei tsu cost)/123378 (total fort supplies delivered) = 6.7% of the total fortification effort. 6.7%. Not 25%.
Again: do the actual math--not whatever off-the cuff "calculation" makes your point.
[Edit...because I'm so used to the way you think at this point that I can predict one of your objections.
I can hear you objecting "You focus on what makes your point too. I am talking about time, not tonnes."
But my point is that you used the "23 CMDRs" figure--and because "23 CMRDs" is just a substitute for the figure 123378 tonnes, this makes your argument is "We delivered 123378 tonnes, and Smei Tsu required 5 CMDRs 5 days (a figure you pulled out of thin air), therefore Smei Tsu required 25% of the effort." This is what the actual math reveals your argument to be nonsense.]
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I am talking about time, you talk about merits. Because of your personal preferences you just dont want to see, that it is a difference if Cmdrs haul 8000 perits to a system with big station and 60ly than to a small pad with a distance of 97ly.
Its not merits and income what counts, its is time, f/u ratio and income.
Its not merits and income what counts, its is time, f/u ratio and income.
So the fact that I predicted this answer in advance, and already answered it in advance, didn't stop this from being your answer?
You've once again demonstrated that you do not read and understand our arguments.
I think those factors you mention probably have been considered - and in an overall cost-benefit analysis has been dismissed as being far less important than CC income, location and long term strategy. The bigger picture has to be looked at here, something I fear is missing in your argument.
By 'time needed to fortify smei tsu' do you mean the slightly extra time it takes to get there because it is further away? Is that really going to make that big a difference? It's only a few more jumps and is only 6.7% of the total fortification effort.
Other than that time pretty much equals merits. The time to do 8000+ that goes to Smei Tsu is pretty much the same as taking those 8000+ merits elsewhere. There would have to be a very good overall argument as to the benefit of taking those merits elsewhere compared to the benefit of keeping the system.
As for "psychological factor to fortify a system over many days every week", well, that's just like many parts of the game - some people may see that as a 'grind' some people don't (personally, I don't). Those that are bothered will do other runs. To be honest that's a rather weak argument up against the actual facts of the CC benefits gained, strategic location and long term strategy (all of which I can see have beeen tried to explained many times but don't seem to have sunk in).
As Rubberboots says, please do the actual maths to backup an argument - not made up numbers.
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Now I'm not pledged to Denton, but seing the discussion here I'll have to admit one thing, Gusty has a point, Smei Tsu is hard to fortify, and the TIME spend fortifying it can be spend equally, or better, elsewhere. TIME mind you.
On the other hand, the rest of you guys also have a point, as long as people really want to fortify Smei Tsu, and it's being fortified, there's no real discussion. It gives a plus in CC, and some people don't care about the TIME spend fortifying it.
If you want to do the math, take a stopwatch, time the trip from a controlled system to the drop-off in Smei Tsu, and try and compare it with 2-3 closer systems with larger pads that give a CC surplus as Smei Tsu, if you can find that, and the TIME difference makes those 3 systems better, then yes, Gusty has a point.
But as long as people are willing to throw their TIME into Smei Tsu, let them, it gives a fair CC surplus.
On the other hand, the rest of you guys also have a point, as long as people really want to fortify Smei Tsu, and it's being fortified, there's no real discussion. It gives a plus in CC, and some people don't care about the TIME spend fortifying it.
If you want to do the math, take a stopwatch, time the trip from a controlled system to the drop-off in Smei Tsu, and try and compare it with 2-3 closer systems with larger pads that give a CC surplus as Smei Tsu, if you can find that, and the TIME difference makes those 3 systems better, then yes, Gusty has a point.
But as long as people are willing to throw their TIME into Smei Tsu, let them, it gives a fair CC surplus.
There are a few considerations which haven't been presented here because we've been over them ad nauseum on the subreddit.
1) There are very few control systems with only outposts. CMDRs who fortify Smei Tsu tend to be those who don't have T9s or Anacondas, and who want to make a big difference. These same CMDRs could use their time elsewhere--but a CMDR with an Anaconda could fortify these other systems with half the effort--or less. It's wasteful to use Type 6 CMDRs fortifying efforts on a system our Anaconda CMDRs can fortify.
2) Smei Tsu gets undermined almost every week because it shares a border with Archon Delaine. It's easy to undermine and, if left unfortified, costs us a massive CC deficit. Leaving it undermined means we'd need to fortify 5 other systems to make up the deficit.
--to which Gusty/Wiwaldi replies that if we drop Smei Tsu, we wouldn't have this problem.
And he's right. But he's also ignoring the fact that we have a terrible ratio of good (high cc) systems to bad (low, even negative cc) systems. Losing another high value system is not a good solution.
The long term strategy is what matters. While our overheads are high, it's *much easier* to get rid of bad systems. If we shed some high value systems now, our overheads will come down, and it will become very difficult to get rid of the low and negative cc systems that are currently weighing us down.
Several people disagree and yet they are not banned. If you think you were banned for disagreeing, then you really have not been paying attention.
For the record:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ElitePatreus/comments/3ud02s/banning_wiwaldi/
It's a pity it had to come to that, understand why the mods made the decision though.
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To be fair it also shares a border with Hudson, and I purposely don't list Smei Tsu most weeks because I know it will get undermined without any prodding from me.
Gutsy is making excellent points, I agree with his logic, but only in regards to fortifying Smei Tsu is a sub optimal use of your time.
Its hardly a bad system in the scheme of things, where's the outrage over Vaka getting fortified?
Vaka is the only system of Patreus that is fortified right now, so I assume it will be getting over fortified through the rest of the week.
A group of 3 Cmdrs fortify Vaka every week in a couple of hours on the first day. It is their homesystem. Emperors Grace was fortifying Rishair every cycle. I did not look to the data, but last i saw Vaka was at 103% last cycle, which is not so bad overfortifyed. This group did also 2 of our best CC systems. They been told by the Reddit moderators that this is wrong.
What's this? Impartial advice from a neutral third party?
Let's be realistic - if we lost Smei Tsu one week the Kumo Crew would be preparing it the next. It's a high value CC system close to your border. The best use of our time is holding our high value systems in lieu of more favourable conditions in the future. The current Patreus strategy is sound. Trying to exploit dissent within our ranks isn't going to work, pirate.
