Powerplay Faction: Denton Patreus Patreus strategy

[fergal]

What's this? Impartial advice from a neutral third party?
Let's be realistic - if we lost Smei Tsu one week the Kumo Crew would be preparing it the next. It's a high value CC system close to your border. The best use of our time is holding our high value systems in lieu of more favourable conditions in the future. The current Patreus strategy is sound. Trying to exploit dissent within our ranks isn't going to work, pirate.

You are confusing not fortifying a system with losing it to Tumoil.
Lots of systems are undermined every week, and none of them are actually lost.

You even get a week after a system goes into Turmoil to fortify more and keep it

 

[Corrigendum]

You are confusing not fortifying a system with losing it to Tumoil.
Lots of systems are undermined every week, and none of them are actually lost.

You even get a week after a system goes into Turmoil to fortify more and keep it

Pretty sure he said "lost," as in "lost in revolt." In which case I agree with his logical next step: the Kumo Crew, Antal, Sirius, Hudson, or Winters would be on it like white on rice the very next cycle.

 

[Perseus]

You are confusing not fortifying a system with losing it to Tumoil.
Lots of systems are undermined every week, and none of them are actually lost.

You even get a week after a system goes into Turmoil to fortify more and keep it

Honey coated poison. lots of your systems are undermined every week but you do not have the same expenses as us. Don't confuse your posistion with ours.
Are you suggesting we take it easy on the fortification of Smei Tsu? Use our time doing something else? What purpose would this serve exactly other than to expose the system to undermining and bringing into the risk of being lost?
I haven't confused anything although I certainly think you are trying to sow confusion on the issue.
It's very simple - Smei Tsu is a valuable system. We, the Patreuians, are going to keep it, through fortification, despite your constant undermining.

edit: sorry for grammar or syntax errors - I'm in class on an inferior machine!

 

[Gusty]

Hey Fergal, it doesnt make look me good if "pirat scum" has the same opinion like me, also if i dont care and i repect your tactical knowledge.
But how do you fortify your systems ? And what do you think would be your trigger ratio on Smei Tsu ? How long would you need to fortify it ? Would it be for you the same Achilles heel than for us ?

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We, the Patreuians, are going to keep it, through fortification, despite your constant undermining.

edit: sorry for grammar or syntax errors - I'm in class on an inferior machine!

Could you please stop to speak about "we, the Patreusians" ?
You are the minority, as long Smei Tsu is not fortifyed within 1 day, instead of 5. Just look at it now !

 

[Gusty]

Now after looking a bit around i have a question.
We were all the same opinion (confirmed by a member of the "planing team" who has sayed to me that they gave up on 47 Ceti long ago), that it was good to loose a high income system because of time to fortify it.
We are now not preparing 47 Ceti again, but another system with less income but much more easy to fortify.
Why not loosing Smei Tsu in the same way and prepare HIP 110483 which is a patornat imperial system with a big station ?

 

[fergal]

Honey coated poison. lots of your systems are undermined every week but you do not have the same expenses as us. Don't confuse your posistion with ours.
Are you suggesting we take it easy on the fortification of Smei Tsu? Use our time doing something else? What purpose would this serve exactly other than to expose the system to undermining and bringing into the risk of being lost?
I haven't confused anything although I certainly think you are trying to sow confusion on the issue.
It's very simple - Smei Tsu is a valuable system. We, the Patreuians, are going to keep it, through fortification, despite your constant undermining.

edit: sorry for grammar or syntax errors - I'm in class on an inferior machine!

There is a limit to how much help I will extend to someone I undermine
Smeu Tsu is very far from your capital, has a small station, and a terrible fortification trigger.

It has a high income, which is why its not "bad" to fortify it, but the time it takes to deliver the 8000 tons to there would be better spent fortifying multiple systems.

I know your systems as well as anyone in your faction, I have all the same data, I believe I know the most efficient way to undermine you, and I know the most efficient way to stop it.

In the last month all the grinding on Smei Tsu has stopped, in the past it was always undermined. It wasn't undermined last week.
Was a big effort to save the default upkeep cost.

It will get undermined this week, but this week isn't a usual week, everything will get undermined this week.

 

[fergal]

Hey Fergal, it doesnt make look me good if "pirat scum" has the same opinion like me, also if i dont care and i repect your tactical knowledge.
But how do you fortify your systems ? And what do you think would be your trigger ratio on Smei Tsu ? How long would you need to fortify it ? Would it be for you the same Achilles heel than for us ?

Our fortification strategy is very different from every other powers, we plan on being undermined 100% and adjust our efforts according to how much is hitting us.
We have a large surplus, like Mahon, so can absorb a large amount of undermining before we need to fortify anything.

Personally I'd ignore its income and just ask a simple question. Are there enough players who will fortify it every week?

If you need to keep prodding people to make the long trip out, in their small ships, why bother having the system?
If there are players willing to fortify this system all the time, then let them. Its hardly a terrible system to fortify, I just don't think its the best system to fortify.

 

[Rubberboots]

Our fortification strategy is very different from every other powers, we plan on being undermined 100% and adjust our efforts according to how much is hitting us.
We have a large surplus, like Mahon, so can absorb a large amount of undermining before we need to fortify anything.

This is exactly why your "helpful advice" is terrible for Patreus. Our overheads do *not* allow us to ignore high value systems being undermined, unless we're *trying* to hit Turmoil.

There is a limit to how much help I will extend to someone I undermine
Smeu Tsu is very far from your capital, has a small station, and a terrible fortification trigger.

It has a high income, which is why its not "bad" to fortify it, but the time it takes to deliver the 8000 tons to there would be better spent fortifying multiple systems.

I know your systems as well as anyone in your faction, I have all the same data, I believe I know the most efficient way to undermine you, and I know the most efficient way to stop it.

In the last month all the grinding on Smei Tsu has stopped, in the past it was always undermined. It wasn't undermined last week.
Was a big effort to save the default upkeep cost.

It will get undermined this week, but this week isn't a usual week, everything will get undermined this week.

So you want us to believe that:
a) Smei Tsu's being undermined is primarily Hudson's fault, not yours and
b) You know for a fact that the days of Smei Tsu being undermined every week are behind us.

But wait, how could you know B unless... If you're trying to be manipulative here, it's not working.

You say that "In the last month all the grinding on Smei Tsu has stopped" But "in the last month," 3/4 weeks had Smei Tsu undermined, and quickly. Last week was the first week in ages where Smei Tsu was not undermined. Hindsight is 20/20; you can't evaluate the soundness of a decision based on information that was not available at the time. We often "pre-cancel" systems that we expect to be undermined, and sometimes this undermining doesn't happen. It's the nature of the game, with "stealth undermining" being the problem that it is.

So whether you're trying to be genuinely helpful or not, the advice you're giving here is terrible.

 

[Gusty]

Our "planing team" claim Lorens Legion is responsibel for Smei Tsu, but they put it on the priority list on first place because they know they are not enoph players who will fortify it.
Even it the "planning team" could convice more players to fortify it, the time would be missed on other place.

 

[fergal]

This is exactly why your "helpful advice" is terrible for Patreus. Our overheads do *not* allow us to ignore high value systems being undermined, unless we're *trying* to hit Turmoil.




So you want us to believe that:
a) Smei Tsu's being undermined is primarily Hudson's fault, not yours and
b) You know for a fact that the days of Smei Tsu being undermined every week are behind us.

But wait, how could you know B unless... If you're trying to be manipulative here, it's not working.

You say that "In the last month all the grinding on Smei Tsu has stopped" But "in the last month," 3/4 weeks had Smei Tsu undermined, and quickly. Last week was the first week in ages where Smei Tsu was not undermined. Hindsight is 20/20; you can't evaluate the soundness of a decision based on information that was not available at the time. We often "pre-cancel" systems that we expect to be undermined, and sometimes this undermining doesn't happen. It's the nature of the game, with "stealth undermining" being the problem that it is.

So whether you're trying to be genuinely helpful or not, the advice you're giving here is terrible.

You misunderstand, Smei Tsu being undermined was the work of grinders. It would normally be undermined in the 100s of %
Smei Tsu is a good system for us to undermine, its very close to us, but I don't see how not fortifying it means you will lose it, I think you might not understand how the Turmoil mechanics work and which systems out of multiple systems in Turmoil will be selected the following week.

If LTT 9397 and Smei Tsu were both put into Turmoil this week, which one would you lose next week?

 

[Rubberboots]

You misunderstand, Smei Tsu being undermined was the work of grinders. It would normally be undermined in the 100s of %
Smei Tsu is a good system for us to undermine, its very close to us, but I don't see how not fortifying it means you will lose it, I think you might not understand how the Turmoil mechanics work and which systems out of multiple systems in Turmoil will be selected the following week.

If LTT 9397 and Smei Tsu were both put into Turmoil this week, which one would you lose next week?

More double-speak.

Whether a system gets undermined to 100% or 5000% is irrelevant.

I understand perfectly how the turmoil system works. Smei Tsu being in turmoil costs us CC the following week, which we can't afford because of how high our overheads are. Honestly, it is increasingly doubtful you're trying to "help."

 

[fergal]

More double-speak.

Whether a system gets undermined to 100% or 5000% is irrelevant.

I understand perfectly how the turmoil system works. Smei Tsu being in turmoil costs us CC the following week, which we can't afford because of how high our overheads are. Honestly, it is increasingly doubtful you're trying to "help."

Your statement is incorrect.
The Galnet numbers for systems in Turmoil are inaccurate.
Systems in Turmoil do not cost CC the following week.
You lost the CC from teh previous week because the system was undermined.
Thats what undermining does, it make you lose that systems income for that week, it does nothing the next week, every system starts with a clean slate every cycle, even the systems in Turmoil.

I know exactly this because of 2 times you didn't lose a system to Turmoil.

Hudson and ALD are no weaker this week for being in turmoil, they just might lose some systems at the end of the week.

 

[Rubberboots]

Your statement is incorrect.
The Galnet numbers for systems in Turmoil are inaccurate.
Systems in Turmoil do not cost CC the following week.
You lost the CC from teh previous week because the system was undermined.
Thats what undermining does, it make you lose that systems income for that week, it does nothing the next week, every system starts with a clean slate every cycle, even the systems in Turmoil.

I know exactly this because of 2 times you didn't lose a system to Turmoil.

Hudson and ALD are no weaker this week for being in turmoil, they just might lose some systems at the end of the week.

You seem to be the one that doesn't understand how turmoil works.

When you have a negative CC balance, the server checks things in a specific order.

Are there already systems in Turmoil? If Yes, you lose them, in decending order of Undermining Upkeep, until you've shed enough to cancel the turmoil.

If No, do you have any systems that are undermined?

If Yes, then these systems enter turmoil, again, in order of Undermining Upkeep, until they've paid for the CC deficit.

When we didn't lose systems to turmoil, it was because the ones we did lose were sufficient to cancel the CC debt.

 

[fergal]

You seem to be the one that doesn't understand how turmoil works.

When you have a negative CC balance, the server checks things in a specific order.

Are there already systems in Turmoil? If Yes, you lose them, in decending order of Undermining Upkeep, until you've shed enough to cancel the turmoil.

If No, do you have any systems that are undermined?

If Yes, then these systems enter turmoil, again, in order of Undermining Upkeep, until they've paid for the CC deficit.

When we didn't lose systems to turmoil, it was because the ones we did lose were sufficient to cancel the CC debt.

I'm not sure how anything you have posted here addresses anything from my previous post

"When you have a negative CC balance, the server checks things in a specific order."
This is true, but how is the CC balance calculated?
Whats the benefit of fortifying systems in Turmoil?

 

[Rubberboots]

I'm not sure how anything you have posted here addresses anything from my previous post

"When you have a negative CC balance, the server checks things in a specific order."
This is true, but how is the CC balance calculated?
Whats the benefit of fortifying systems in Turmoil?

You implied that our not having lost systems that were in turmoil was evidence that systems in turmoil get a blank slate. By explaining how it's possible to not lose a system in turmoil without it being the case that Turmoil systems are given a blank slate, I was directly answering what you said.

What's more, you'd been saying that I "didn't understand how turmoil works," so it's fair to say that by showing that I do, I was directly answering your posts...

 

[Gusty]

It looks like nobody else but just the mods from the Patreus Rettit forums understand everything. Only they have valuable data, and only them can read it corretly. Only they know how to convice the players to do what they want ONly they know how to motivate the players to do what they dont want. Only they know how to fall from 6 to 10. Something must be wrong in their underverse !

 

[Ben Ryder]

Just out of curiosity what position was Patreus in at the start of Power Play, cycle one?

 

[Rubberboots]

Just out of curiosity what position was Patreus in at the start of Power Play, cycle one?

I believe we started in 7th place. We took 6th fairly early on and kind of bounced around a bit between 6 and 8.

Edit: just checked some early videos, it appears we started in 6th.

 

[Gusty]

Just out of curiosity what position was Patreus in at the start of Power Play, cycle one?

Let me quess, not worse than 10 ?

Edit: to say it clear, not every dessision that was taking by the "planing team" which i think has changed over time was wrong !

 

[Ben Ryder]

Let me quess, not worse than 10 ?

Edit: to say it clear, not every dessision that was taking by the "planing team" which i think has changed over time was wrong !

Powers shift about a lot and I was wondering if there is any correlation that might not be immediately obvious. For instance one power dropping place significantly and another power taking that place by moving up significantly, in order to determine which powers are truly working in opposition even if they don't realize it. Nothing to do with Patreus as such or their planning but more about the knock on effects of all powers and how to address the butterfly effect by direct action.