Powerplay: Ideas from the devs - Feedback wanted! #3

Powerplay is trash. I've probably written more about how bad it is than any other element I dislike (including SCBs) on account of the staggering amount of wasted potential - skim my post history for a few choice effortposts unpacking exactly why (as well as a laundry list of burns).

Honestly though, at this point the complete lack of reponse apart from Sandro's occasional "we hear your complaints, but have elected to ignore them" make me wonder why I've even bothered.
 
Nothing here sounds like a real improvement over the current system. Power Play, for the brief stints I could manage to stick with it just felt like far too much trouble for the amount of benefit that comes with it.

Merit grind is the biggest problem. Just for rank 2 it means sitting at a station for ~5 hours straight just loading up PP commodities to drop off at another location. Rank 3 requires several more hours. Meanwhile you lose half of it after every subsequent week. This makes progression feel like just a wasted effort regardless of how much time you have. You gain it, then you lose it very quickly. I would rather see it be similar to gaining ranks in any of the other factions and just getting rid of the weekly credit bonus. Without the weekly credits you could make progress decay much less rapidly, or increase rewards from actual trading of merits.

Interdiction mechanics are broken to the point of stupidity at the moment. At current with PP present it means being interdicted every time you enter supercruise, 100% of the time, without exception. Even when not carrying much cargo, even when you're flying in a controlled system for your faction. As multiple scripted interdictions can be present alongside eachother, this can mean being interdicted by 3 different groups the moment you arrive at a planet outside your controlled system (pirate for cargo, defenders for enemy system, and normal PP enemies just because). It would be fine if this were an uncommon occurrence, but at the moment it's nearly 100% of them time that an NPC of some sort tries to interdict you after every jump, making everything feel overly scripted. Combined with a minigame that is currently impossible to win at, except for rare conditions, and getting absolutely no benefit from killing ships of enemy factions, it all just makes the whole experience even more tedious and forces it to where the only people who can participate are people in dedicated fighting craft. Having this sort of behavior constant as long as you are part of the faction, even if not carrying pp commodities, just adds to the senseless nature of it all. 100% needs to me something more like 15%.

Why would anyone elect to do something that provides them no real benefit, meanwhile is connected to a very broken system at the moment and which just feels empty and forced?
 
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Bonjour (check me out with a little bit of French there!)

Over the past few weeks, Sandro Sammarco, Frontiers Lead Designer has been working with the community closely on the topic of Powerplay. He wanted to address some of the most pressing topics and discuss, at a very early stage, ideas that are being considered.

Once again, he would be delighted if you were able to have a look give your thoughts. :)

===

Hello Commanders!

Following on from previous discussions about steps we’re looking at, to address a few pressing issues with the core mechanics of Powerplay (such as powers expanding themselves into oblivion J), I thought now might be a good time to take a look further ahead into the future, at Powerplay ideas we’re mulling over for potential deployment next year (as we’ve already rather a full calendar up to the end of the year!)

And now, here comes the caveat: This is stuff we’re *considering*. It’s not yet planned or scheduled, and certainly not guaranteed.

That being said, we’ve a clutch of ideas that we want to float to see if we can’t rustle up some interesting feedback from you folk. Especially as I think these suggestions - at least to some degree - address a few of the more interesting issues we’ve already received via feedback (again, thanks for this – we do listen, even if we can’t always answer, or don’t always agree!)


Favour
Part of Powerplay is about rewarding effort, which is why the merit system works as it does. However, there has been lots of feedback from Commanders who perhaps don’t have much time to devote to the game, let alone Powerplay; they make a very reasonable argument that potential gameplay is locked from them based on arbitrary time limits rather than skill or something equally nice.

Whilst I think it’s fair to suggest that time paid in can be considered effort of a sort, it got me thinking: perhaps there might be a reasonable compromise. The result: “Favour”.

The idea behind this suggestion is that each time a Commander earns a merit, they also earn a favour. However, favour does not decay – it’s a permanent resource (well, permanent as long as the power remains active, of course).

At any time during a cycle, a Commander could “spend” favour to trigger a an individual rating’s benefits until the next cycle. The cost of triggering a rating’s benefits would likely be significantly more than the merit total required to activate them, keeping merits as the “supercharged” currency of Powerplay.

Such a system would mean however, that Commanders would not necessarily have to put large amounts of constant effort in to taste the benefits a power might offer, instead building up their rewards over time in a piecemeal fashion and choosing when to execute them.

With such a system, I believe we could also consider reverting the way merits rewards are calculated back to the more competitive allocation method we started with, where rating requirements are based on success versus one’s peers as opposed to an arbitrary threshold. I know that this proved less than popular in the first instance, but I’d be interested if folk might reconsider its value if coupled with a favour system for the less competitive power supporters. Don’t worry if you strongly disagree, just say so!


Powerplay Flag
I make no bones about my personal support for Powerplay: I love it. Grand scale power-struggles, driven entirely by Commanders, with special supporter rewards and legible, dynamically altering system rules that affect all Commanders, not just supporters.

But of course, I would say that J.

However, looking at the feedback, I observed an interesting theme: Commanders upset by the perception that once pledged to a power they felt “locked in” and unable to enjoy the freedom the game normally offered them because of the extra dangers they faced.

Again, whilst there are reasonable counters, we had a think to see what kind of options we might employ to directly address this concern, because it is a legitimate one: in general you are at significantly greater risk when pledged. The coolness of space geography offered by Powerplay does come with this increased, potentially oppressive, danger.

After a lot of furrowed brows and sugar-filled cakes, we have a suggestion that I’d love to get feedback on. Again, remember, this is just us brainstorming. We’re not locking anything in, we just want Commander opinion.

The suggestion is, simply enough, giving the ability for a Commander to toggle their Powerplay status to be active or hidden.

Now, an ability as powerful as this would absolutely have to have some pretty iron-cast rules to prevent exploitation and to keep pledging as an important decision. We’re talking within the realms of having significant enforced cool downs when hiding your powerplay status before you get the benefits (e.g. when you switch to hidden you lose all Powerplay benefits and the ability to affect Powerplay immediately, but remain visible as a target for a significant amount of time. In addition, perhaps you can only cycle this flag when docked at a starport or outpost in one of your power’s control systems).

We *think* this might give a couple of fairly strong benefits: It would hopefully reinstate to a greater degree the freedom for Commanders to choose how they spend their time.

It might also tempt more Commanders to sign up to a power, feeling a little safer in the knowledge that they would not necessarily have to swim with space sharks *all* the time thereafter.

We also think that the Powerplay flag idea and favours work well together, as they both support more freedom without taking too much away from the importance of pledging to a power.

So, such an ability as the Powerplay flag would need to be carefully controlled to prevent it from undermining Powerplay, but do you guys and gals think it would be worth the effort?


Up/Down Vote
We understand that Commanders want to be able to communicate with their own power’s supporters in game. Because of Elite’s architecture, creating large scale communication is very challenging. That’s not to say that it can’t be done or that we aren’t going to look at it, but there are significant issues and costs involved that would need to be overcome.

Putting that to one side for a moment, we want to float a simpler concept that, whilst not trivial, might offer a surprising amount of bang per buck and is almost certainly doable.

This suggestion is the idea of being able to “up vote” or “down vote” a system involved in Powerplay action. Other Commanders from your power would see this data, and we think it might function as a very clean, contextual communication of ideas.

For example, if you looked at one of your power’s control systems and saw that it had a tremendous amount of “down votes”, you could clearly infer that many supporters considered fortifying this system would be a waste of time.

Similarly, lots of “down votes” on an enemy control system would indicate that undermining it would not be appreciated by lots of folk. Importantly, you’d be able to see totals for both “up” and “down” votes for systems involved with Powerplay.

This voting is different from that used in preparation: in that instance, your votes represent your ability to influence your power’s decision process. However, up/down votes could be rationed in a similar fashion, with more being allotted to supporters of a higher rating. I guess that at the end of a cycle all such votes would be removed, ready for the next cycle’s strategy to form.

Take a moment to chew on this one. I have a feeling that it could be deceptively effective. Your thoughts are?


Freedom Fighters
Some of the feedback we’ve collected has been from Commanders that do not wish to pledge support to any power (which is totally fine, of course!), instead wanting to remain as champions to minor factions/systems they have adopted.

In general the idea of having more dovetailing between minor factions and powers is something we’re interested in, beyond the government versus ethos effect that currently exists (and that we might consider buffing significantly).

One concept that’s currently acting as a chew toy for us is the idea that Commanders could pledge to a system under the yoke of a power’s control, becoming system “freedom fighters”, ready to push back against the invader.

As a freedom fighter, a Commander would be able to take part in undermining and opposition for the system they had pledged to, effectively working with opposing powers to weaken the controlling power’s presence (and if you’ve been reading some of our other posts on Powerplay, you’ll note that we’re also considering allowing massive undermining to force a system into collapse, allowing it to shake of power control without the power being in a CC deficit – personally, I see possibilities...)

Clearly, such courageous/dastardly behaviour would not be without *substantial* danger: we’d consider freedom fighters to possibly be valid targets in any system controlled or exploited by any power that shared a major faction with the one being attacked by the freedom fighter. We’d also likely want to limit Commanders to support one system at a time, with maybe a cool down before being able to pick a new one (or perhaps some mission to “wipe” their status clean?)

I think that such a feature would require the use of Powerplay flags, discussed earlier, to prevent the role of freedom fighter being a permanent death sentence across massive swathes of human space. I also think it offers a new way to enjoy Powerplay, without being beholden to organisations you might not approve of. What do you think?


More Powerful Ethos versus Government Effect
This is another idea to increase the interaction between minor factions and powers. Of all the suggestions, it’s possibly the smallest change, but I think it has enough potential for change to be called out.

Currently, you can affect the success thresholds for expansion and fortification by flipping systems so that they align or with, or against, the ethos of the power involved. The way this works is that if more than 50% of exploited systems are aligned (either for or against) then the threshold is raised or lowered by a set percentage, around 50%. Flipping the control system in question gives an additional effect.

Whilst these are fairly solid mechanics, I can a potential issue: flipping over half of the systems exploited by a control system is a *very* big ask. Yes, it’s a simple concept, but perhaps in this case it’s a little too simple. Also, the success threshold modifier, being a static value, can potentially become irrelevant if lots of Commanders take part in the Powerplay expansion/fortification.

Our proposal would be to have the benefits and penalties of ethos versus government scale per exploited system rather than at a set 50%. This more granular approach would mean that Commanders could affect change without having to commit to such a large amount of work as flipping half the systems. It would also allow us to increase the overall range of effect – so that Commanders who did manage to flip loads of exploited systems could impose a much larger benefit/penalty. Also, this change would add another dynamic to space geography: areas of densely populated space would fundamentally have the potential to be affected more strongly than sparse areas.

Do you think this is a worthwhile idea, or do you believe it would be a waste of time! Thoughts will be greatly appreciated.


Missions, Variety and Rewards
I add this section for the record, even though I don’t have much to add apart from: yes, we will be looking at these aspects, simply because feedback has been clear and I want to emphasise that we have been listening. As usual, no ETA, but truth be told, this stuff has always been on the agenda.


Conclusion
It’s worth noting that these ideas are separate from more conventional number tweaking and balancing that we treat as an ongoing task (for example, the balance of success from different activities).

There are also any number of smaller changes that could pop up as well, like offering sanctuary from opposing powers at home systems that we suspect might offer reasonable benefits, but for this update, I wanted to cast a weather eye towards the horizon and chat a little more speculatively about what the bigger picture could evolve into.

I hope this makes our current heading a little clearer and (importantly) sparks some juicy, constructive feedback!

Hi, first of all thank you a lot and congratulations for this awesome game !

Second, I read your suggestions and they are all interesting, however here is a list of my suggestions :p

1) Raise the rewards when killing an enemy, every enemy killed in your power controlled area should reward you with 5 powerplay and 10k credits,
2) Missions giving you powerplay points, not just deliver papers too ...

these 2 will help those who don't have so much time to dedicate to the game

3) introduce a powerplay Bullettin board where people can leave messages for other players of that power to read
4) Playermade missions in stations' Bullettin Board and player to player money transfer (it should only work in stations through money ATMs)

Playermade missions could be something like "provide me with x T of y ore or items, reward: z money" and would be available at specific stations where the player posted the mission at, of course this feature will be useful as soon as crafting becomes available.
 
PP is an ambitious project. Ofc you can't reach the target at first shot.
PP's goal: What is the point of all this stuff ? What do we win ? Systems ? What for ?
PP's mechanics : How do we win ? Space trucking ? Really...

"-So, you play Elite Powerplay, is it cool ?
-Hmm, i take packages here and bring them there.
-Was asking about Elite : Dangerous man.
-Yeah, yeah. I bring papers in a space ship, Elite way.
-ah... ok... Sounds great...
-If I want to bring many many packages, I use credits earned ig.
-Hm... Credits for boring stuff... You paid something for this dlc ?
-ofc no !"
 
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Only just re/discovered this thread as many in the powerplay subs have been trying to remember where it was and Calimeatwagon managed to dig it up so...


  • I for one am highly appreciative of Sandro's passion for Power Play. Power Play occupies 100% of my time in EliteDangerous, including considerable time spent in the meta in places such as r/elitehudson, hudsonhub and xbox parties (teamspeak equiv) and pc t/s.


  • Powerplay is so much more than "space trucking packages of paper to and fro", if that's all you're doing then you're doing it wrong imho.

Nor is it about the modules or the bonuses...
"Ask not what your Power can do for you, but what you can do for your Power"


  • Powerplay, for the truly uninitiated involves PvE combat as well as logistics, PvP; Pve and PvP simultaneously; Technical use of Wings, Co-ordination that encourages positive use of the meta which in turn builds stronger communities (for example the core Hudson playerbase is a networked group effort of PC and XBone players working together with each other and our Federation allies in Winters); Grand Strategy and ever evolving Tactics; Diplomacy and so much more.


  • A lot of the things that end up in the GalNet are a result of the concerted dedicated efforts of literally thousands and thousands of players week in week out.


  • I for one won't be making use of the flag option if it appears in future, I wear my Hudson tags with pride and the extra negative attention from npcs and players is a small price to pay for what I get out of them, which again is not about the modules or bonuses. From my perspective if you want the rewards you pay the price.
  • The upvote/downvote thing looks to be a really useful functionality.


  • Freedom Fighters sounds very, very interesting and a lot of folks in the PP community are very much looking forward to it.


  • It's also a general consensus that it needs to be made clearer about the ~62CC deficit penalty on systems so that well meaning but uninformed folks don't prep loss making systems as often.


  • Also some sort of in game message like the "Your Power Needs You"/Turmoil message when grinderfolks massively over fortify a control system like ALD's Guathiti aka The Death Star or Hudson's Groombridge 16'.


  • Hopefully our beloved benefactors like Sandro do spend some time in the Power subreddits to see what the hard working power play loving folks are contributing to this facet of ED and I look forward to more developments to the part of the game where I've found my place in the Galaxy. :)
 
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It felt I was constantly making appointments about boring things in game. I don't like being encouraged to make appointments in my game-time - when I do so it is usually my own decision between me and other players.

It just doesn't work for me as I always lost the invested effort when taking a break. It's a waste of time in my case.
 
Favour - A non-decaying rating resource is not a bad idea. It's perfectly fine in fact. Coupling this with rating requirements being based on peer success vs. your own is a bit of a step backwards though. This promotes the "grind" and moves things even more towards quantity not quality. The more important change to be made here is not adding a secondary resource on top of merits, but changing the way in which merits are earned. The quality of what you are doing needs to reflect the amount of merits you earn. ie, the further you travel from your HQ when fortifying results in more merits on a shallow logarithmic scale, dumping resources into a system thats already been fortified/undermined past 100% results in 0 merits, etc. Once you do things like THIS first, then sure. Add Favour in on top of that.

Powerplay Flag - I don't see the point behind this? In order for it to work, you'd have to impose some serious rules and constraints on it as you mentioned. But when you compare those constraints with the option of just leaving your power and then having the option to rejoin within 12 hours, there's no point to it. If the purpose of this feature is to make players feel like they have more "freedom" and less "danger/annoyance", then instead of applying a bandaid on top the currently very annoying prospect of leaving your powers territory while pledged in the form of "Flags", instead change the nature of the consequences when leaving your powers territory. ie, instead of getting interdicted/attacked in every single system exploited by an opposing faction, make it so you are only interdicted/attacked in systems where you can actually affect the control of that powers territory. In the Control Systems where you can actually undermine. Flag's are a bad and pointless idea.

Up/Down Vote - A step in the right direction. As you mentioned, what we really need is direct communication channels in-game with the members of our power. But if that can't be done anytime soon and Up/Down Voting can, then ya. Absolutely do it.

Freedom Fighters - An interesting idea, but one that I can't see a ton of purpose behind? Why would a player who has chosen not to participate in Powerplay care that Powerplay is taking place in a given system? The vast majority of passives granted to systems by Powers are beneficial. Giving players a means to participate in Powerplay without being "locked in" to it is a good idea, but the idea's you've proposed to support it are completely counter-productive the point of this proposed mechanic. A large percentage of players who tried out PP and then ended up leaving did so because it's incredibly annoying and prohibitive to do anything else outside of your powers territory once you've pledged (see my above point on Flags as to the solution for this). If becoming a Freedom Fighter causes a bunch of powers aligned to the same Major Faction to become hostile to you, then you're stuck with the same problem as joining PP except you don't even get any of the benefits of rating. The only way this idea should even remain on the table for further consideration is if there were some kind of competitive bonus applied to systems/players not controlled/involved by Powerplay in the same vein as bonuses applied to those that are involved in PP. There's got to be incentive.

Granular Ethos vs. Government - A good idea. Would only serve to better BGS interaction with PP, and put more dynamic control into the players hands. Do it for sure.

Missions, Variety and Rewards - Yup. Thanks for reassuring us that you're working on expanding and improving this. :)


To add to your recommendations, I think after you've -
1) made earning merits representative of what you're doing to help your power (0 merits earned past 100% fortify, systems far from HQ are worth more merits, etc)
2) made traveling through opposition-EXPLOITED systems less of an annoyance (opposition-CONTROLLED systems should still be dangerous and honestly they should be more so than what they are now, no docking etc)
and 3) taken all steps to reduce/penalize intentional/unintentional 5th Columning
- then you should increase the cooldown/lock-out time for Joining and Leaving Powers. You should be forced to remain pledged to your power for a given amount of time and the cooldown for re-pledging should be a lot longer than half a day.
But when, AND ONLY WHEN, you take care of the above 3 steps first.
 
.3) taken all steps to reduce/penalize intentional/unintentional 5th Columning

Apparently from what I've read from Fergal/McFergus quoting or attributing Mr Brookes actual and genuine 5th column is an acceptable thing as being a realistic part of PP and the cloak and dagger goings on in a galactic power struggle.

If this is indeed the case and is still the thinking of the dev team then, as you say, "reduce" the effectiveness of 5C needs to be the order of the day. Currently the negative impact and massive damage of 5C is too overpowered compared to the massive amount of work that needs to be done to undo or combat it imho.
 
In regards to the "Powerplay Flag" maybe it could be your ship. Players could have a ship that holds the "reputation" of the supporter and can really only influence Powerplay when they're flying their allied vessel and can only take advantage of their merits in that ship.
 
In regards to the "Powerplay Flag" maybe it could be your ship. Players could have a ship that holds the "reputation" of the supporter and can really only influence Powerplay when they're flying their allied vessel and can only take advantage of their merits in that ship.

Hmm, disagree.

If I'm wanting to undermine, I'll take a combat vessel, but if I decide to do a bit of upkeep, I'll take a trader along, and trade while carrying legislative doc's or trade agreements or something. That means only one of the two ships can take the rep... OR that each ship has 1/2 the rep, and not the pilot.

The rep is down to the pilot IMHO, so shouldn't matter what ship you're in.

However you should, at some point in your rep, be able to 'go dark', where rep is hidden from outside prying eyes.
 
That actually all sounds pretty great. I like all the suggestions in the OP. That would for sure make me re-join powerplay, if I could go dark when I wanted to just be me and pootle about wherever I want.
 
We need alternative ways to earn Merits -

1) Powerplay "Contract Missions" are what is needed. Something that is other than grinding.

I play for a mainly trading power and not much combat if any. But there are times I'd like to go and fight the enemy in combat and get rewarded for it. Not just using limpets to get cargo.

2) Make actual "Powerplay Conflict Zones"

You jump in and you already represent a power so you just fight against the other side. Put a fixed amount of ships / waves so that the last people standing "win".
 
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Bonjour (check me out with a little bit of French there!)

Over the past few weeks, Sandro Sammarco, Frontiers Lead Designer has been working with the community closely on the topic of Powerplay. He wanted to address some of the most pressing topics and discuss, at a very early stage, ideas that are being considered.

Once again, he would be delighted if you were able to have a look give your thoughts. :)

===

Hello Commanders!

Following on from previous discussions about steps we’re looking at, to address a few pressing issues with the core mechanics of Powerplay (such as powers expanding themselves into oblivion J), I thought now might be a good time to take a look further ahead into the future, at Powerplay ideas we’re mulling over for potential deployment next year (as we’ve already rather a full calendar up to the end of the year!)

And now, here comes the caveat: This is stuff we’re *considering*. It’s not yet planned or scheduled, and certainly not guaranteed.

That being said, we’ve a clutch of ideas that we want to float to see if we can’t rustle up some interesting feedback from you folk. Especially as I think these suggestions - at least to some degree - address a few of the more interesting issues we’ve already received via feedback (again, thanks for this – we do listen, even if we can’t always answer, or don’t always agree!)


Favour
Part of Powerplay is about rewarding effort, which is why the merit system works as it does. However, there has been lots of feedback from Commanders who perhaps don’t have much time to devote to the game, let alone Powerplay; they make a very reasonable argument that potential gameplay is locked from them based on arbitrary time limits rather than skill or something equally nice.

Whilst I think it’s fair to suggest that time paid in can be considered effort of a sort, it got me thinking: perhaps there might be a reasonable compromise. The result: “Favour”.

The idea behind this suggestion is that each time a Commander earns a merit, they also earn a favour. However, favour does not decay – it’s a permanent resource (well, permanent as long as the power remains active, of course).

At any time during a cycle, a Commander could “spend” favour to trigger a an individual rating’s benefits until the next cycle. The cost of triggering a rating’s benefits would likely be significantly more than the merit total required to activate them, keeping merits as the “supercharged” currency of Powerplay.

Such a system would mean however, that Commanders would not necessarily have to put large amounts of constant effort in to taste the benefits a power might offer, instead building up their rewards over time in a piecemeal fashion and choosing when to execute them.

With such a system, I believe we could also consider reverting the way merits rewards are calculated back to the more competitive allocation method we started with, where rating requirements are based on success versus one’s peers as opposed to an arbitrary threshold. I know that this proved less than popular in the first instance, but I’d be interested if folk might reconsider its value if coupled with a favour system for the less competitive power supporters. Don’t worry if you strongly disagree, just say so!

I would rather not ... this is just yet another currency o' grind. It will not be changed unless we don't have to spend them. If we have to earn something in order to spend it to get benefits, it is a grind. If we just get them and they give us benefits (or tardeoffs) without spending them (being PERMANENTLY), this would be a good way to improve powerplay and get rid of the never ending merit farm each week. But in this form: No sorry, no more grind systems plz.

Powerplay Flag
I make no bones about my personal support for Powerplay: I love it. Grand scale power-struggles, driven entirely by Commanders, with special supporter rewards and legible, dynamically altering system rules that affect all Commanders, not just supporters.

But of course, I would say that J.

However, looking at the feedback, I observed an interesting theme: Commanders upset by the perception that once pledged to a power they felt “locked in” and unable to enjoy the freedom the game normally offered them because of the extra dangers they faced.

Again, whilst there are reasonable counters, we had a think to see what kind of options we might employ to directly address this concern, because it is a legitimate one: in general you are at significantly greater risk when pledged. The coolness of space geography offered by Powerplay does come with this increased, potentially oppressive, danger.

After a lot of furrowed brows and sugar-filled cakes, we have a suggestion that I’d love to get feedback on. Again, remember, this is just us brainstorming. We’re not locking anything in, we just want Commander opinion.

The suggestion is, simply enough, giving the ability for a Commander to toggle their Powerplay status to be active or hidden.

Now, an ability as powerful as this would absolutely have to have some pretty iron-cast rules to prevent exploitation and to keep pledging as an important decision. We’re talking within the realms of having significant enforced cool downs when hiding your powerplay status before you get the benefits (e.g. when you switch to hidden you lose all Powerplay benefits and the ability to affect Powerplay immediately, but remain visible as a target for a significant amount of time. In addition, perhaps you can only cycle this flag when docked at a starport or outpost in one of your power’s control systems).

We *think* this might give a couple of fairly strong benefits: It would hopefully reinstate to a greater degree the freedom for Commanders to choose how they spend their time.

It might also tempt more Commanders to sign up to a power, feeling a little safer in the knowledge that they would not necessarily have to swim with space sharks *all* the time thereafter.

We also think that the Powerplay flag idea and favours work well together, as they both support more freedom without taking too much away from the importance of pledging to a power.

So, such an ability as the Powerplay flag would need to be carefully controlled to prevent it from undermining Powerplay, but do you guys and gals think it would be worth the effort?

I doubt that will solve any danger issues, it would probably make the situation worse. For example, my friends and me are actively participating in PvP and if there would be a toggle mode to hide the PP status, we would just attack EVERY commander unless it is clearly shown that he/she is from our own faction. This can result in killing own friendly CMDRs. Additionally, it adds danger to the ones who don't want to participate in PP as the "I don't want to face danger - PP players" are shown as neutral. Again, my friends and me would very likely just attack any CMDR in an enemy system and/or friendly system if shown as neutral/hidden/whatever. This will result in increased, not decreased danger.

Up/Down Vote
We understand that Commanders want to be able to communicate with their own power’s supporters in game. Because of Elite’s architecture, creating large scale communication is very challenging. That’s not to say that it can’t be done or that we aren’t going to look at it, but there are significant issues and costs involved that would need to be overcome.

Putting that to one side for a moment, we want to float a simpler concept that, whilst not trivial, might offer a surprising amount of bang per buck and is almost certainly doable.

This suggestion is the idea of being able to “up vote” or “down vote” a system involved in Powerplay action. Other Commanders from your power would see this data, and we think it might function as a very clean, contextual communication of ideas.

For example, if you looked at one of your power’s control systems and saw that it had a tremendous amount of “down votes”, you could clearly infer that many supporters considered fortifying this system would be a waste of time.

Similarly, lots of “down votes” on an enemy control system would indicate that undermining it would not be appreciated by lots of folk. Importantly, you’d be able to see totals for both “up” and “down” votes for systems involved with Powerplay.

This voting is different from that used in preparation: in that instance, your votes represent your ability to influence your power’s decision process. However, up/down votes could be rationed in a similar fashion, with more being allotted to supporters of a higher rating. I guess that at the end of a cycle all such votes would be removed, ready for the next cycle’s strategy to form.

Take a moment to chew on this one. I have a feeling that it could be deceptively effective. Your thoughts are?

This is something I like. However, due to the 5th I would like to restrict votes just to higher ranks (rank 3/4 and higher) to prevent unexperienced players from voting. Only those who are putting effort and time in PP should also be able to globally influence it by "votes". Otherwise we will get Antal's outpost again and the past has shown that this is clearly possible with just a hand full of players.

Freedom Fighters
Some of the feedback we’ve collected has been from Commanders that do not wish to pledge support to any power (which is totally fine, of course!), instead wanting to remain as champions to minor factions/systems they have adopted.

In general the idea of having more dovetailing between minor factions and powers is something we’re interested in, beyond the government versus ethos effect that currently exists (and that we might consider buffing significantly).

One concept that’s currently acting as a chew toy for us is the idea that Commanders could pledge to a system under the yoke of a power’s control, becoming system “freedom fighters”, ready to push back against the invader.

As a freedom fighter, a Commander would be able to take part in undermining and opposition for the system they had pledged to, effectively working with opposing powers to weaken the controlling power’s presence (and if you’ve been reading some of our other posts on Powerplay, you’ll note that we’re also considering allowing massive undermining to force a system into collapse, allowing it to shake of power control without the power being in a CC deficit – personally, I see possibilities...)

Clearly, such courageous/dastardly behaviour would not be without *substantial* danger: we’d consider freedom fighters to possibly be valid targets in any system controlled or exploited by any power that shared a major faction with the one being attacked by the freedom fighter. We’d also likely want to limit Commanders to support one system at a time, with maybe a cool down before being able to pick a new one (or perhaps some mission to “wipe” their status clean?)

I think that such a feature would require the use of Powerplay flags, discussed earlier, to prevent the role of freedom fighter being a permanent death sentence across massive swathes of human space. I also think it offers a new way to enjoy Powerplay, without being beholden to organisations you might not approve of. What do you think?

Making minor player factions work as clans would be a good idea in general. Connected with the BGS AND PP would result in Freedom Fighter groups that can not only defend their system(s) from PP powers but also undermine other player groups. However, I am highly against minor player groups being able to undermine PP powers as undermining is the non-plus-ultra grind anyways ATM. It would likely result in some super undermining mainstream and every power would fall into turmoil.

More Powerful Ethos versus Government Effect
This is another idea to increase the interaction between minor factions and powers. Of all the suggestions, it’s possibly the smallest change, but I think it has enough potential for change to be called out.

Currently, you can affect the success thresholds for expansion and fortification by flipping systems so that they align or with, or against, the ethos of the power involved. The way this works is that if more than 50% of exploited systems are aligned (either for or against) then the threshold is raised or lowered by a set percentage, around 50%. Flipping the control system in question gives an additional effect.

Whilst these are fairly solid mechanics, I can a potential issue: flipping over half of the systems exploited by a control system is a *very* big ask. Yes, it’s a simple concept, but perhaps in this case it’s a little too simple. Also, the success threshold modifier, being a static value, can potentially become irrelevant if lots of Commanders take part in the Powerplay expansion/fortification.

Our proposal would be to have the benefits and penalties of ethos versus government scale per exploited system rather than at a set 50%. This more granular approach would mean that Commanders could affect change without having to commit to such a large amount of work as flipping half the systems. It would also allow us to increase the overall range of effect – so that Commanders who did manage to flip loads of exploited systems could impose a much larger benefit/penalty. Also, this change would add another dynamic to space geography: areas of densely populated space would fundamentally have the potential to be affected more strongly than sparse areas.

Do you think this is a worthwhile idea, or do you believe it would be a waste of time! Thoughts will be greatly appreciated.

Yes and no. I never liked the ethos since there is no way players can influence these. Sure they could flip a whole system for a power but that's just too much of effort for yet too small reward. I am not for nor against this as I really do not care about ethos. It is just some stat that dusts in the power description I don't care about. In the end the only thing I care about is how many merits I need to undermine or fortify a system. And that's basically a question of how much time one has to put in. Ethos are nothing but that, they decide how much time one has to put in a certain system in order to trigger a ... trigger.

Missions, Variety and Rewards
I add this section for the record, even though I don’t have much to add apart from: yes, we will be looking at these aspects, simply because feedback has been clear and I want to emphasise that we have been listening. As usual, no ETA, but truth be told, this stuff has always been on the agenda.


Conclusion
It’s worth noting that these ideas are separate from more conventional number tweaking and balancing that we treat as an ongoing task (for example, the balance of success from different activities).

There are also any number of smaller changes that could pop up as well, like offering sanctuary from opposing powers at home systems that we suspect might offer reasonable benefits, but for this update, I wanted to cast a weather eye towards the horizon and chat a little more speculatively about what the bigger picture could evolve into.

I hope this makes our current heading a little clearer and (importantly) sparks some juicy, constructive feedback!

Answers in red​.
 
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That actually all sounds pretty great. I like all the suggestions in the OP. That would for sure make me re-join powerplay, if I could go dark when I wanted to just be me and pootle about wherever I want.

Well, the idea of going dark I think would work 2 fold. Firstly you'd need to reach say level 5 in the prev week to do it, then...

1. as you suggest, for when you're not PPing. but...

2. You're aligned with Mahon say, and take a 3 day "mission" to infiltrate Winters....

That would mean you "go dark", then sign up with winters to gather intel. However the repercussions for being discovered are not the usual 3 days, or week of "being hunted" but for say 1 month you'd be hunted from major hunting degrading in lesser degrees. Initially on being found, you've got 5 mins to make a run for it. Then PP ships will spawn and interdict you in wings of 5-10 deadly/elite vultures/clippers/FAS/Pythons/'Condas etc. But the interdiction will be almost continual on days 1-2, then down to once every few minutes by the time day 5 comes around, and then down to a few times an hour by day 10, and so on. Reducing in frequency, AND in numbers/ranking of ships. Your discovery could also be fed to all PP CMDR's in the PP window, a small section for "top targets".

The reward for infiltration, would be 6000 merits (to maintain your 10k plus a few) AND an additional say 10 million CR. But with high risk factor..... The reward for bringing you down before you "cash in" your intel would be 6000 merits (to maintain 10k plus a few) AND an additional 10 million CR, after cashing in it might be 5 million for week's 1 and 2, then 1million for week 3, and 600k for week 4.

Alternatively the time could be altered to 3 day undercover, with a timer. If you stay there beyond 3 day's the "discovered trigger is set" and the hunting as above starts, but say for only 1 week. If you leave at 2 days 23 hours and 50 minutes you get bonus for good intel, if you leave and cash in intel after 2 days 12 hours you get small bonus, if you leave 2days with intel you get a small reward. But a huge reward for staying the full 3 days. With this method though, and being hunted for say 2 weeks, would not be 1 weeks real time where the player could do the risky mission, get the bonus then go on holiday with the family for a week, but 1 week of actual in game time. IE if you play for 5 hours, 4 nights a week, then you'll be hunted for 8 weeks in a depleting intensity.
 

Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
Hi Sandro,

Now that Horizons is about to launch, design for it is locked in etc. It would be great if you could come back to Powerplay and let us know what the plans are for the year.

You have had tons of top quality feedback in these PP threads, but a common denominator tends to emerge in all, which is integration between PP and the BGS and how can PP be made more relevant to players motivations for territorial meaning and distinction.

But also equally relevant now, what are the plans (if any) to integrate PP with planetary surface activity and/or missions?

Would be great if you could highlight / summarize the goals for the year on all this?
 
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Why is communication tied to the way the game networks with other players?

We understand that Commanders want to be able to communicate with their own power’s supporters in game. Because of Elite’s architecture, creating large scale communication is very challenging. That’s not to say that it can’t be done or that we aren’t going to look at it, but there are significant issues and costs involved that would need to be overcome.


Seems that there are a number of communication solutions that games have used without having to re-invent the wheel that could accommodate ED's playerbase. There seems to be no reason to tie it to the same instancing behavior as the game since they're not treated that way in the game already (i can communicate to players in other game modes even). So what is wrong with using a secure, stripped (really stripped) down version of IRC on someone's old Pentium 2 (maybe 2 of them, one in the US and one in Europe). Then repurpose channels to provide the different modes of communication. To the end user, nothing changes (cept the additional power - wide comms) but you get a massive _MASSIVE_ improvement to reliable communications and accurate visual on which of your friends are logged in etc.
 
perhaps including a list everyweek on Galnet, of known defectors, and have the defection mechanic close the option of SOLO/PRIVATE for the week of defection, to have the defector face the Open play world of treacherous behaviour is punishment!!

also for

Preparations list the top 5 contributors who have been preparing systems, this allows the Power to see who the Traitors are, and who the grinders are and who the Big supporters of the power are,

so what this publicity does in essence is reward the players with Fame or Shame.. something which can add a different element to Mercenary/Assassins/bounty hunting

have a communications network module, where you pay(huge amount of credits for a constant stream of information ie. which system and dock/ bulletin board info if they are doing missions, which ship they left the dock in ) for information of a known target...

if in the event Cmdrs remain in Solo or private, allow hiring of NPC hunters at a cost, to sit in systems waiting for Targets.. to persistently attack until destruction(have the NPC send a cmdr inputted message, with the Cmdrs name who hired the hit!!
 
Ok Mr. Sandros, I am one of the players with who you simply disagree. I really hope you are not the only one who reads this stuff. Because this is highly against your vision. The issues of PP are not those that you listed.


There is a wall of text in this thread, tons of posts, so I do not have unfortunately time to read them all, but I already noticed that at least some do agree with me on some level.


I admit that it would be nice to give missions etc. content for PP players.
It probably would be nice to give up/down voting mechanism.
The ideas to make it easy to temporarily pause PP, this is a bad idea. There are other reasons why people do not want to be part of PP. Removing every bit of choice, every bit of consequences from the game -> Just is not ok at all. Do not give us more of this arcade PP.


But you know, none of the listed is actually the real issue in PP. The issue is that it is separated minigame, that makes no sense, it is disconnected. + It offers really high rewards vs the rest of the game. It is broken.


Because PP is there, we probably have to live with it. So yes, in my opionion it was not a good idea in the first place. But lets "fix" it, so that it makes somehow sense for everyone who plays Elite. So I will start to disagree, and tell things you are not going to implement.


Connecting the BGS and PP is the goal #1.
Trash the PP specific features like undermine and fortificate, this system is too simple to be ever made interesting.


Every star system has a minor faction that politically is supporting person A or B. If it does not have, then the Power has to send their missionary and start talking how good the person A is. So they will create a minor faction supporting the specific Power.
Then the PP players have to support the minor faction that is supporting their Power. When the minor faction turns to be the leading faction -> on PP map the owner of this system has changed.


Now when FD does not have to implement content like missions for powers anymore, but only content for the BGS -> FD will save tons of development time, and you can do twice as good content.


Minor Faction on federation side can be supporting imperial person. This should create penalties to whole star system, there should be constant repelling against the Power. It should be seen in the system. So Powers cannot just give benefits for everyone, they have to create also penalties for political opposition.


Also the PP is connected after this to the BGS. It is coming from the core of the game, that people think is the BGS and not the PP. After this every trading activity etc. will affect to the PP as well, people can once again play as they want. The life in Elite space will once again be normalized.
 
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Hi Chaps,

I think I read some where a dev post about power play in 2.x and future plans but cant find the thread again. Can anyone help?

Thanks
 
I dislike the false flag concept. Space should have more character, not hide what little it has. Stations and ships belonging to a faction should have their own liveries, I'm surprised there are no faction paint schemes yet. False flag would be like the crime system where you are forgiven for a murder after a week, what sort of law is that? Murder raps should be permanent. Perhaps you could have have super-difficult penance missions to regain a clean reputation.
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With the introduction of the avatars perhaps each Powerplay system could have the potential to have a named governor, established by a community goal type mechanic? Its about time some minions appeared. Then the governor could hand out missions. Governors might have other beneficial effects on Powerplay, like a small cc bonus and also no system with a governor can supply negative CC unless undermined. Negative CC is a poor concept which rewards fifth column activities, the government types in a region would be better used to affect the level of triggers. Powers shouldn't be able to fortify a system then ignore it either, if there is sufficient opposition there should be another struggle similar to the original expansion battle.
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I'm not sure why NPC underminers are desirable. It seems odd to undermine by destroying ships from other factions. Escorted convoys would make control systems seem more like regional headquarters. Also, military ships should be exempt from murder penalties, they are not under civilian law.
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Lastly Powerplay needs more overall direction, rather than just a top ten rank system. Perhaps have target systems for each faction with some effect on their faction weapon? Also, the top ten system is so like the pop charts that there should be some year-end award. How about a second art asset, like the victorious leader standing smugly in front of a galaxy map?
 
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