Combined Ship Scanners

[Lestat]

Players managed to get all the way to the other side of the galaxy and back before field repair units were even a thing in the game, stop trying to make it sound like things are "essential" equipment, if you buy a ship with limited storage you have to suck it up and make some hard choices, so you want to explore in a cheap ship?

Don't take SRVs with you if you are scared you'll need a repair unit, there is nothing in game says you HAVE to drive about on planets or that you NEED to perform repairs while out there.

If you WANT to do both those things, buy a bigger ship.

Your right. And that fear trying to make it all the way to the other side of the Galaxy With no repair unit was a thrill. Then that are you going to be able to make it home fear feeling was great.

That was before planetary landing became a thing. Honestly, flying around out there there was very little chance of damage. But with every world having different levels of gravity, the risk increases. It may not be "essential" to some--I could certainly live without it, but for some planning a long expedition they'd be wary of leaving it behind in 2.0.

It seems you was not on the forums before the game was released. Because players and Devs. did talk about Planetary landing in 2013 But the Devs. told us they did not want to make a half baked game and release everything at once. They wanted to do it right. We can also Point out Frontier Earlier games like First Encounters. AKA Elite III which also had Planetary landing. As you can see The topic Planetary landing was talk about a lot.

If we compare Elite with Star Citizen. Both started kickstarter around the same time. Star Citizen still has not released the game yet. I not saying Star Citizen is a bad game. They tried doing everything at once.

Yes, you could buy a bigger ship, but do you want Explorers to feel limited to flying about in Asps or Anacondas? What's wrong with a bit more flexibility in your choice of ship options? All combining the scanners would do (or making the DSS a utlity slot) would mean you have the SAME options you had in 1.4 and earlier, not FEWER.

It it part of the game Design. Not to be able to fit everything in smaller ships. It part of the progression for players to go to larger ships. Elite right now has 24 ship. They are adding 6 more ships in the upcoming update. They talk about a few more ships in upcoming updates.

LOL A song pop in my head. You Can't Always Get What You Want

 

[DragoonKnight]

As covered elsewhere:

Let me see if I got this straight.

• Combining the two scanners to free up an internal slot would ruin balance because suddenly all ships can do everything
• Moving a scanner to a utility slot would kill multi role pilots because they would be able to do nothing
• The balance of internals in 1.4 and earlier was fine. People complained about needing more, they were told to suck it up.
• The balance of internals in 2.0 taking up an extra slot is also fine, despite it meaning you effectively have one less.
• But freeing up a slot so the internals usage is on par with 1.4 is somehow not fine and ruins the game
• This remains true even if it's balanced out by other means such as a) making a combined scanner take up a Class 3 slot which would be a significant impact, b) making it use more power and weigh more than taking the units alone, which would also be a trade off, or c) swapping it with a Utility mount which continues requiring some kind of trade off.

As for your Cobra example, so you want that utility slot to act as an extra shield booster, yet replacing the DSS you've just moved to Utility with a Shield Cell Bank or Hull Reinforcement wouldn't work because....?

Am I the only one who's not getting your logic?

I do not think the problem is with your idea, but the people on this board. People here seem to loathe and hate change. Any idea for improvements to the game seem to result in a big giant can of Nope everytime regardless of what the reasons and benefits of such an idea are.

 

[mossfoot]

It it part of the game Design. Not to be able to fit everything in smaller ships. It part of the progression for players to go to larger ships. Elite right now has 24 ship. They are adding 6 more ships in the upcoming update. They talk about a few more ships in upcoming updates.

LOL A song pop in my head. You Can't Always Get What You Want

If they had it all sorted out before Horzons in terms of what they intended to do later via internals, why did they add a Class 1 Internal to the Sidewinder and both types of Eagles for 2.0? https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=147404&page=37&p=3199682&viewfull=1#post3199682

 

[Lestat]

It their choice. I think they did that. So a New player can try a little of each task before going Big. You know collecting some Materials Trying out the SRV Trying planet trying landing. That not a big deal.

But they are not adding another Internal Compartments to each ship.

 

[mossfoot]

It their choice. I think they did that. So a New player can try a little of each task before going Big. You know collecting some Materials Trying out the SRV Trying planet trying landing. That not a big deal.

Oooor, they're recognizing that the expectations and requirements for Horizons has created a problem in some lower tier ships due to having so few internal compartments and had to fix it.

I do not think the problem is with your idea, but the people on this board. People here seem to loathe and hate change. Any idea for improvements to the game seem to result in a big giant can of Nope everytime regardless of what the reasons and benefits of such an idea are.

Yeah, pretty much.

It's not that I'm not sympathetic to Lestat's basic premise - I absolutely believe that ships should have limitations and that no ship should do everything. Having ships varied and unique in terms of capabilities is what makes the game great.

The problem is, what I and others are asking for doesn't remove those limitations. At all. Some proposals shift the limitations, but none of them remove it. I've gone into great detail as to why this is the case, only to effectively be met with "nuh-uh" each time.

An example of REMOVING the limitation would be demanding a combo Discovery/Surface Scanner that takes up a single C1 slot.
Another example would be for demanding adding a new Internal slot to all ships.
Another would be asking to split up internals so you can turn your C2 slot into two C1 slots.

If any of those things were what was being suggested I'd be right with Lestat saying "no", because he'd be 100% right. Let's face it, there are a LOT of suggestions made on the forums that aren't good, that are effectively "I win" buttons or otherwise hurt the game in ways they either can't see or don't care, because they want what they want. There's a reason people resent proposed changes, because a lot of them are cringe worthy

In this case, however? He's not right. Not about our intentions or the consequences.

So I think I'm done arguing this. It's clear he doesn't want to listen or even concede a single point, even when the Devs themselves have to a degree.

 

[popuptoaster]

That was before planetary landing became a thing. Honestly, flying around out there there was very little chance of damage. But with every world having different levels of gravity, the risk increases. It may not be "essential" to some--I could certainly live without it, but for some planning a long expedition they'd be wary of leaving it behind in 2.0.



And "dont' take SRVs if you're scared". You basically just said "Don't play Horizons" because that's what Horizons IS. No explorer, new or old to the game is going to want to pass up the chance to land and drive on whatever awesome world they might come across.

Yes, you could buy a bigger ship, but do you want Explorers to feel limited to flying about in Asps or Anacondas? What's wrong with a bit more flexibility in your choice of ship options? All combining the scanners would do (or making the DSS a utlity slot) would mean you have the SAME options you had in 1.4 and earlier, not FEWER.

I wrote

"Don't take an SRV with you if you're scared you'll need a repair unit"

not

"Don't take an SRV with you if you're scared"

don't try to change what people say to suit your argument.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

If they had it all sorted out before Horzons in terms of what they intended to do later via internals, why did they add a Class 1 Internal to the Sidewinder and both types of Eagles for 2.0? https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=147404&page=37&p=3199682&viewfull=1#post3199682

~

Maybe to fit the planetary approach suite in, you lot are already moaning about needed more slots so good job they added that one!

 

[Velixar]

I read the Three topic almost the same topic. All dealing making smaller ships have everything you need for exploration. That SRV Haner, Fuel scoop, Shield, Discovery scanner, Detailed Scanner and repair kit. If a small ship can have all of this. Why would you need to upgrade. What is the weakness of the ships? Right now I don't none. You can claim well the high cost of merging scanners. But look how easy it is to make money.

I think frontier has it right. Limit on what a ship can do.

 

[Mengy]

Maybe to fit the planetary approach suite in, you lot are already moaning about needed more slots so good job they added that one!

The planetary approach suite is getting it's own personal internal bay added to every ship in 2.0, so it had nothing to do with them adding those slots to the Sidewinder & Eagle. No, they are adding those slots because they've realized that throwing the new SRV bay into the mix has caused problems with ships due to a lack of internals to accommodate it. FDev wants players to use the SRV and utilize the surface stuff in Horizons, and many small to medium ships will not easily be able to outfit themselves to do that while still being viable. This issue is exacerbated for explorers due to us really needing so many internal slots to do our profession properly, and the scanners are the best place to address this.

Those two ships have the least amount of internals so they were hit the worst by introducing the SRV bay, hence the new class 1 internals. But every exploration ship under an Asp is going to feel it, hence all of these threads about trying to find ways to fix it.

 

[popuptoaster]

The planetary approach suite is getting it's own personal internal bay added to every ship in 2.0, so it had nothing to do with them adding those slots to the Sidewinder & Eagle. No, they are adding those slots because they've realized that throwing the new SRV bay into the mix has caused problems with ships due to a lack of internals to accommodate it. FDev wants players to use the SRV and utilize the surface stuff in Horizons, and many small to medium ships will not easily be able to outfit themselves to do that while still being viable. This issue is exacerbated for explorers due to us really needing so many internal slots to do our profession properly, and the scanners are the best place to address this.

Those two ships have the least amount of internals so they were hit the worst by introducing the SRV bay, hence the new class 1 internals. But every exploration ship under an Asp is going to feel it, hence all of these threads about trying to find ways to fix it.

The smaller ships still have advantages, wait until you try to land or fly around in a Cutter on a high gravity world and you'll see the smaller ships are still going to be useful.

YUou pays your money and takes your choice as far as ships go, pick one with the amount of bays you need or take less stuff, if the smallest ships were given an extra bay that's a good thing but it obviously means FD have been looking at internal bays for ships and decided that they others are fine because they didn't change them.

 

[Lestat]

The smaller ships still have advantages, wait until you try to land or fly around in a Cutter on a high gravity world and you'll see the smaller ships are still going to be useful.

YUou pays your money and takes your choice as far as ships go, pick one with the amount of bays you need or take less stuff, if the smallest ships were given an extra bay that's a good thing but it obviously means FD have been looking at internal bays for ships and decided that they others are fine because they didn't change them.

Wait until they add a small ship docking bay to our ships I can see this argument come up again. Our Diamondback Explorer can't hold a small ship. Or My sidewinder only has one seat. But I want my friend to help control it.

 

[Ravenov]

A big hearty +1 to the OP, came here to make this suggestion, but i'll add my support to it here instead.

 

[whammo11224]

Just saw this thread and I have to agree. Why are the scanners not in the utility slot? Why are the scanners not combined in one display, like every ship in every sci fi incarnation ever? For that matter why are we even concerned with mass in a frictionless environment?

 

[Psycho Romeo]

Yay, this again.

Just saw this thread and I have to agree. Why are the scanners not in the utility slot? Why are the scanners not combined in one display, like every ship in every sci fi incarnation ever? For that matter why are we even concerned with mass in a frictionless environment?

Because scanners are an internal aspect of the ship? Because it's apparently in every sci-fi incarnation except for Elite? Because presence or non-presence of friction has exactly nothing to do with mass?


The thread is rather pointless in my opinion. Explorers want more ability to carry more stuff. Well, so would any combat pilot and and definitely so any trader. It's fine as it is. Blah blah sacrifice, compromise, consequence, etc. etc. If you want everything, get an anaconda.

 

[Lestat]

Well it seem some players don't want pros and con of each ship. I have to agree with Psycho Romeo.

 

[Ketzerfreund]

I agree with the OP. Offer a combination of ADS/DSS, make it four times as expensive as the seperate devices would cost, if you must.


What everyone in this thread that's using the argument of "power curves" being flattened seems to forget that the introduction of additional equipment since release of the game has already messed with what ships are good for what purpose. Several ships that once were at least servicable for combat aren't that anymore since the introduction of shield cells, hull reinforcements and shield boosters.

Barring alternative routes, at some point equipment slots will have to be rebalanced anyway - unless there aren't going to be any new pieces of equipment anymore, ever.