Ships The Cutter really takes the wind out of my sails

[Yokoshima]

The Corvette is not exactly "manouverable", although its clearly better than the Cutter in that department.

The Cutter on the other hand, if tougher. As better shields and armor. The Corvette packs a stronger punch, the Cutter can withstand a larger beating. Corvette turns a little better, Cutter has far greater speed. Cutter is also a better multipurpose than the Corvette. Corvette is theoretically better one a one-on-one fight, Cutter is better at all other roles besides combat. I've seen videos on youtube of Cutters winning against Corvettes, so its not impossible.

The Cutter may not be an all-out warship. But it presents more alternative roles. And that way we get more alternative uses for new ships, instead of 2 new equal ships with different colors. That's fine by me.

Also, it was time for the Feds to finally have a bit of an upper hand at anything, they had been the underdogs (in terms of faction ships) for almost a whole year. Let them be on top for a while.

Due to more useful internals and the power issues of the Cutter their on paper defensive stats are pretty evenly matched. But the Corvette is not "a little more maneuverable". It can out turn a Conda, and a Conda has ~ 40% better pitch than a Cutter. And since maneuverability is a multiplier of a ships defensive and offensive capabilities the Corvette is actually far more defensive. The Cutter may have a bit better shields, a bit worse hull (with HRPs), but since all ships regenerate 1mj/s (or 1.5 with bi-weave) not getting hit is the first form of defense.
And of course they can win in some PvP. A viper can take down a Corvette. Does that make the Viper a better ship than a Corvette?
And, in terms of PvE, the Cutter is much, much worse.
Oh, and a multirole can effectively fight. The Cutter can not.
.
The Empire may have had better ships for ~ a year, but that doesn't mean it was the right move. What's more, at least back then, it was well known that more ships were coming. As it stands, the only word regarding these ships is they are the end of the line for large faction ships.

 

[Yokoshima]

From this combat load out agility test.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSwpQ4o3cYA


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cfNqIqx3ZI&list=PLoX84tKh2w1EPa8kJVZi2H4QPjQdm-VSq


You should also know that the Anaconda has a unique attribute like the Vulture does. The Anaconda loses the least performance outside of the blue than any other ship in the game.

hmm. FA off and acceleration and vertical thrusters must play a huge part, as I have much more trouble staying on vultures and the like in my Conda.
Also, that is quite the discrepancy from https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=182465

 

[Iori]

The Corvette is not exactly "manouverable", although its clearly better than the Cutter in that department.

The Cutter on the other hand, if tougher. Has better shields and armor. The Corvette packs a stronger punch, the Cutter can withstand a larger beating. Corvette turns a little better, Cutter has far greater speed. Cutter is also a better multipurpose than the Corvette. Corvette is theoretically better one a one-on-one fight, Cutter is better at all other roles besides combat. I've seen videos on youtube of Cutters winning against Corvettes, so its not impossible.

The Cutter may not be an all-out warship. But it presents more alternative roles. And that way we get more alternative uses for new ships, instead of 2 new equal ships with different colors. That's fine by me.

Also, it was time for the Feds to finally have a bit of an upper hand at anything, they had been the underdogs (in terms of faction ships) for almost a whole year. Let them be on top for a while. Think of all that long time the Feds suffered with that horrid piece of junk Dropship while we had the Clipper from the start (and later the Courier).

And honestly, the Cutter is not exactly "teethless"... Its just not as strong at combat as the Corvette.

The feds had the FAS which is already better than the Clipper, now the feds have the advantage in both heavy and super heavy. You would expect that variety would bring more balance.

I agree that the dropship was crap then, but the problem is not fixed by inverting the problem to the other side, specially when we are talking about a billion credit ship.

And honestly, the Cutter is not exactly "teethless"... Its just not as strong at combat as the Corvette

Even the Clipper can kill any ship faster in a RES than the Cutter can.

Any ship can just fly circles around you when you fly a Cutter. They can't do that to the Corvette or the Anaconda. Cheaper ships.

Just look at the video in the OP, and tell me that any other non Lakon trader can't do that WAY more efficiently.

 

[h347h]

hmm. FA off and acceleration and vertical thrusters must play a huge part, as I have much more trouble staying on vultures and the like in my Conda.
Also, that is quite the discrepancy from https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=182465

No kidding those are 'optimal' thrusters weights. The Python gets overloaded when in a combat loadout.

 

[Yokoshima]

No kidding those are 'optimal' thrusters weights. The Python gets overloaded when in a combat loadout.

6A thrusters have an optimal mass of 1440, my python fit with military bulkheads and HRPs in all slots but 3 I weigh ~ 900 tonnes, laden.

 

[ChaosBlades]

I was really excited for the Cutter but I am massively disappointed. I want to only fly Gutamaya ships and I own them all on the live server but I will not own this ship and I will not fly it once it goes live. If FD does not want to buff it that is fine I just won't fly it. I will just keep flying the Anaconda since I am Empire. All this ship is a Type 9 that can defend itself.

 

[Shadowed]

Cutter is perfect. It is an amazing Warship that has been picked on by this forum. It doesn't have a pitch problem one bit.

If someone disagrees, I will gladly fight them in my Beta Cutter against their Corvette or Anaconda, FDL, Python, Vulture, Clipper, whatever. Will be home Monday night.

Edit: PM me for a meetup. Will be back in town to play Monday.

Cutter is an amazing warship piloted by CMDR's trying to fly it like a Corvette.

 

[Yokoshima]

Cutter is perfect. It is an amazing Warship that has been picked on by this forum. It doesn't have a pitch problem one bit.

If someone disagrees, I will gladly fight them in their Corvette or Anaconda, FDL, Python, Vulture, whatever. Will be home Monday night.

Edit: PM me for a meetup. Will be back in town to play Monday.

Cutter is an amazing warship piloted by CMDR's trying to fly it like a Corvette.

Take it for a spin doing some PvE. See how well it stacks up.

 

[ironhammer500]

Take it for a spin doing some PvE. See how well it stacks up.

Oh no how will it ever out turn that pesky eagle.... Please learn Imperial ships are not turn and burn, notice how all of them have one of the best boosts in game compared to fed ships? Yes that is right Imperial ships are all about speed.

 

[CATPAIN KIRK]

To be fair, all the new ships are underwhelming to say the least. The only one I'll get in game is the Cutter to fly it as an unarmed trader, so pretty much the opposite of what it's supposed to be.

Looks like they all come heavily pre-nerfed which is understandable to some extent. Buffing a ship later usually results in fewer ragequits than nerfing it.

 

[Yokoshima]

Oh no how will it ever out turn that pesky eagle.... Please learn Imperial ships are not turn and burn, notice how all of them have one of the best boosts in game compared to fed ships? Yes that is right Imperial ships are all about speed.

Save the Cutter they all also have top notch maneuverability. Hull and damage leaves a bit to be desired though.
That and for agile eagles, just FA off reverse.

 

[Yokoshima]

To be fair, all the new ships are underwhelming to say the least. The only one I'll get in game is the Cutter to fly it as an unarmed trader, so pretty much the opposite of what it's supposed to be.

Looks like they all come heavily pre-nerfed which is understandable to some extent. Buffing a ship later usually results in fewer ragequits than nerfing it.

Can't argue with that logic.

 

[askavir]

Even the Clipper can kill any ship faster in a RES than the Cutter can.

Any ship can just fly circles around you when you fly a Cutter. They can't do that to the Corvette or the Anaconda. Cheaper ships.

Just look at the video in the OP, and tell me that any other non Lakon trader can't do that WAY more efficiently.

I can fly circles around the anaconda in my Clipper... And I can also kill ships faster in a RES than the anaconda, it has much more firepower than my Clipper, but I can reach the targets much faster and keep it on my sights the whole time much easier. The Cutter is an enormous, very heavy ship. Light fighters are supposed to fly circles around it. It would be weird if they couldn't.

The Cutter could do with slightly improved turn rate, but it would still make sense it was the least manouverable of the "big 3" based of mass and size alone. It would be strange if it could keep up with vultures and couriers in the manouverability department. The big 3 are supposed to be effective against other big ships, not at dogfighting couriers and vultures.

 

[askavir]

Save the Cutter they all also have top notch maneuverability. Hull and damage leaves a bit to be desired though.
That and for agile eagles, just FA off reverse.

The Clipper has a very strong hull. The shield on the other hand...

 

[Yokoshima]

I can fly circles around the anaconda in my Clipper... And I can also kill ships faster in a RES than the anaconda, it has much more firepower than my Clipper, but I can reach the targets much faster and keep it on my sights the whole time much easier. The Cutter is an enormous, very heavy ship. Light fighters are supposed to fly circles around it. It would be weird if they couldn't.

The Cutter could do with slightly improved turn rate, but it would still make sense it was the least manouverable of the "big 3" based of mass and size alone. It would be strange if it could keep up with vultures and couriers in the manouverability department. The big 3 are supposed to be effective against other big ships, not at dogfighting couriers and vultures.

It can be the least maneuverable. There are many factors aside from pitch. Due to vertical thruster strength and top speed it could have the pitch of an eagle and still not fly circles around it. Also, big ship = big thrusters (propulsion, including maneuvering thrusters) . And this is space. Things like gravity and friction are not really an issue. Fly a Conda on a high G planet and see how well it does vs. the lighter ships. For example, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom-class_littoral_combat_ship and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independence-class_littoral_combat_ship. Look at the size and speed of these ships.

 

[Yokoshima]

The Clipper has a very strong hull. The shield on the other hand...

Vs its FAS/FDS/FGS counterparts? Really?

 

[Troa Barton]

Hello, Troa. Awesome video, as always.
But if you want to love Cutter, try three C3 beams, two imp hammers and two multicannon turrets on nacelles. (I found out they can work up to 4km distance and they DO work, not like the laser turrets.)
Imp hammers drain surprisingly little from distributor, and unlike on FDL, they almost don't heat up your ship. Set up that way, one attack consists of three bursts of hammers, while constantly firing beam. It drains the distributor in one 5-second burst, but takes 2/3 of Conda's shield.
Then you just fly cuban eights around your target, like you did. Oh, and try to use vertical thrusters the opposite way (To actually widen the turn) - you'll get further away from your target and have more time to recharge shields and weapons. I am one of those SCB haters, so I don't use them, but Cutter with C8 bi-weave can regenerate back more shield than your enemy can take down in one attack. (Well, unless you get hit by twin plasmas, naturally).

In other words. Cutter CAN give you that feeling of untouchable awesome. I agree with your verdict, though. First several hours are painful.
But the fact that turning speed is the ONLY weakness of this ship tells us she deserves the chance.

Thank you and thank you for your insight.
unfortunately I can't test out imperial hammers unless I want to wait a month to unlock them.......... I hate that soooooooo much.
i actually tried widening the arc a few times, it's hard to tell in the video but I tried a lot of different tricks to swing that thing around with moderate levels of success.
putting a class 3 in a huge hard point is like putting off road tires on a civic in my mind. It's not what was intended by the manufacturer. But that largely has to do with the lack of options and the fact that this ships power is only adequate to run pulse lasers and multi cannons as if it was a dogfighter which obviously it is not.
Im not saying it can't be effective especially against npcs, you can still cut a steak with a butter knife. Doesn't mean it's the right tool for the job or that the butter knife is perfectly fine for cutting steak.

 

[Chris Simon]

Thank you and thank you for your insight.
unfortunately I can't test out imperial hammers unless I want to wait a month to unlock them.......... I hate that soooooooo much.
i actually tried widening the arc a few times, it's hard to tell in the video but I tried a lot of different tricks to swing that thing around with moderate levels of success.
putting a class 3 in a huge hard point is like putting off road tires on a civic in my mind. It's not what was intended by the manufacturer. But that largely has to do with the lack of options and the fact that this ships power is only adequate to run pulse lasers and multi cannons as if it was a dogfighter which obviously it is not.
Im not saying it can't be effective especially against npcs, you can still cut a steak with a butter knife. Doesn't mean it's the right tool for the job or that the butter knife is perfectly fine for cutting steak.

Haha, right. Yeah, she still sucks. but I love that ship so I have to make do.
Putting C3 into a huge hardpoint is a blasphemy, I agree. But I hate a C4 cannon, and PA is a no-go in this ship, so until we have C4 lasers (if ever) I'm doing this.

 

[sqzbox1]

I don't understand all the hate for the Cutter. People have had it for 5 minutes and already want to buff it into the super, beats everything role. Traditionally Cutters are fast and lightly armed and in naval use generally get used for rapid law enforcement duties such as border patrol and customs and so on. But they couldn't take on a destroyer or any real battle ship except by utilizing its strengths and defending its vulnerabilities. In other words, strategy is required. I would have thought that this would be a primary objective in a game. From what I read it seems to be rather well-designed actually.

All I am saying is - give it a chance. I'm seeing similar stuff in other Horizons threads as well - lots of criticism about some of the mechanics people are seeing for the first time and all the haters come out before it has really had a chance to be debugged and perhaps the reasons for the way it works to be discovered.

I think I'll replace my T9 with a Cutter - it looks awesome for the armed trader role. And I EXPECT this huge monster to handle like a bus! It just wouldn't be right otherwise. One of the reasons why I like the T9 - you don't just buzz around in it, you have to treat it like the monster weight that she is and always be thinking ahead. Just like in a real life big rig - if you don't plan ahead in those monsters you will very quickly get bitten.

 

[Yokoshima]

I don't understand all the hate for the Cutter. People have had it for 5 minutes and already want to buff it into the super, beats everything role. Traditionally Cutters are fast and lightly armed and in naval use generally get used for rapid law enforcement duties such as border patrol and customs and so on. But they couldn't take on a destroyer or any real battle ship except by utilizing its strengths and defending its vulnerabilities. In other words, strategy is required. I would have thought that this would be a primary objective in a game. From what I read it seems to be rather well-designed actually.

All I am saying is - give it a chance. I'm seeing similar stuff in other Horizons threads as well - lots of criticism about some of the mechanics people are seeing for the first time and all the haters come out before it has really had a chance to be debugged and perhaps the reasons for the way it works to be discovered.

I think I'll replace my T9 with a Cutter - it looks awesome for the armed trader role. And I EXPECT this huge monster to handle like a bus! It just wouldn't be right otherwise. One of the reasons why I like the T9 - you don't just buzz around in it, you have to treat it like the monster weight that she is and always be thinking ahead. Just like in a real life big rig - if you don't plan ahead in those monsters you will very quickly get bitten.

Thing is the Cutter is not a trader, it is a Corvette class warship. I was supposed to be the smallest and most agile but...yeah. Anyway people who have played this game for more than a month in a combat role know how important pitch is. I have used the ship for ~ 30 hours, and honestly all I needed was one.