Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Mk III

[Shaamaan]

Out of interest, how many of you guys lobbying for open to be removed regularly play in open? It seems a lot of you avoid it completely... So I have to wonder why you want it removed so much? Surely your PvE groups and solo mode cater to your needs well enough?

First of all, one person mentioned the removal of PvP from open (by referencing an idea posted by someone else). I, myself, am torn between a PvE only Open (ALONGSIDE a PvP Open) or just leaving things as they are (my main issue with making PvE open is that it still requires man-hours to implement a purely PvE world, whilst even Mobius is, technically, PvP - plus griefers, being what they are, will go out of their way to be annoying anyway).

That said, I'm a fuel rat, so yeah, I do play in Open. I also play in a Mobius and Solo. Your point?

 

[Lateralus]

No one is implying that, we have out right stated it

The only reason to force unarmed soft targets in to open (or retain them by deceit) is because you want something easy to kill (aka "gank" them) and not people who are ready to defend themselves (which would be the case if PvE and PvP were separated properly as in other MMOs)

I don't kill players unless they try and run, ignore my comms or attack me.... I take it that qualifies me as a 'ganker' in your Utopian vision of the universe?

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First of all, one person mentioned the removal of PvP from open. I, myself, am torn between a PvE only Open (ALONG SIDE a PvP Open) or just leaving things as they are (my main issue with making PvE open is that it still requires man-hours to implement a purely PvE world, whilst even Mobius is, technically, PvP - plus griefers, being what they are, will go out of their way to be annoying anyway).

That said, I'm a fuel rat, so yeah, I do play in Open. I also play in a Mobius and Solo. Your point?

If you do not support the removal of open mode, then that question was not directed at you. Judging by the responses to most of my posts I assumed a lot of you supported Jockey's stance on the issue.

The point was if you don't play in open why would you care if it is removed or not?

 

[Shaamaan]

I don't kill players unless they try and run, ignore my comms or attack me.... I take it that qualifies me as a 'ganker' in your Utopian vision of the universe?

The point he was making is - how many of your targets have an actual chance of fighting you? If you're targetting T6s or the like chances are they can hope to run away at best. I.e. "easy to kill" or "not ready to defend". SOME people DO enjoy that kind of interaction and are perfectly happy playing in Open as it is (and that's fine!).

Some, however, do NOT enjoy this kind of interaction, all the while seeing other players (in stations, in SC, etc) gives the world a more "living" feeling. And that, too, is fine!

What is NOT fine is forcing one group or the other to do something they don't want to do.

 

[Lateralus]

The point he was making is - how many of your targets have an actual chance of fighting you? If you're targetting T6s or the like chances are they can hope to run away at best. I.e. "easy to kill" or "not ready to defend". SOME people DO enjoy that kind of interaction and are perfectly happy playing in Open as it is (and that's fine!).

Some, however, do NOT enjoy this kind of interaction, all the while seeing other players (in stations, in SC, etc) gives the world a more "living" feeling. And that, too, is fine!

What is NOT fine is forcing one group or the other to do something they don't want to do.

A good pirate wouldn't pick on a target that out-classes his/her ship...that would be silly. The goal of piracy is to intimidate the target into giving up cargo without a fight.. If they choose to runaway then what should a pirate do other than attack?

I'm not trying force anyone to do anything, (other than occasionally drop their cargo ).

 

[Robert Maynard]

A good pirate wouldn't pick on a target that out-classes his/her ship...that would be silly. The goal of piracy is to intimidate the target into giving up cargo without a fight.. If they choose to runaway then what should a pirate do other than attack?

I'm not trying force anyone to do anything, (other than occasionally drop their cargo ).

From what you have said already it's cargo or death - either submit to the dominance of the attacker or lose the ship as well as the cargo.

As to target selection - there is little wonder why traders are generally less than fond of player pirates.

 

[Mouse]

Well everyone on here has a perspective and argues for that perspective... All I'm asking for is a well populated open mode - whereas a lot of the PvE only crowd on here are arguing for the game mode I enjoy and play exclusively to be completely removed.

Who's in the wrong here?

Horse Hockey and you know it.. For one thing.. where is the PVE only crowd? No one has advocated for the removal of PVP at all.. even in Jockey's facetious "Lets remove open and make pvper's play in a private group as PVErs are made to do.

For the 2nd thing.. No one is fully arguing for open to be removed. You are missing Jockey's point and so outright lying it is funny.

Your entire argument is that you have cake and ice cream and you would be willing for others to have it as well as long as you got cookies as well as the cake and ice cream, Because you want non pvp unwilling targets to kill

 

[Lateralus]

From what you have said already it's cargo or death - either submit to the dominance of the attacker or lose the ship as well as the cargo.

As to target selection - there is little wonder why traders are generally less than fond of player pirates.

Well yeah... cargo or tickles doesn't quite have the same impact. Where I can I disable a running ships drives and give them a chance.. but that is a lot of faff, and when their drives are powering up there isn't always enough time before they jump.. or the cops turn up and you have to retreat.

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Horse Hockey and you know it.. For one thing.. where is the PVE only crowd? No one has advocated for the removal of PVP at all.. even in Jockey's facetious "Lets remove open and make pvper's play in a private group as PVErs are made to do.

For the 2nd thing.. No one is fully arguing for open to be removed. You are missing Jockey's point and so outright lying it is funny.

Your entire argument is that you have cake and ice cream and you would be willing for others to have it as well as long as you got cookies as well as the cake and ice cream, Because you want non pvp unwilling targets to kill

What am I lying about? Confused...

 

[Faded Glory]

I'm not 100% against the idea of a dedicated PvE mode, as the mobius players and a fair amount of solo players would no doubt populate it pretty quick. Just concerned about the impact it would have on open, so I'm reticent to support.

If you are genuinely worried that an Open PvE mode would take players away from the current Open, then you must realize that some of the players that you want to have in Open (for any reason) are there under duress, not because they want to be.

If you are worried that current Open players might leave for an Open PvE mode, then you are accepting that not everyone you engage with in Open is genuinely consenting to you affecting their game.

You may not have said exactly that, but I assure you plenty of people advocating for Open have...

 

[Leto Thule]

Good morning, gents!

I see we have already started on today's reiteration of yesterday's points! This looks like a good place for me to merge in...

The point he was making is - how many of your targets have an actual chance of fighting you? If you're targetting T6s or the like chances are they can hope to run away at best. I.e. "easy to kill" or "not ready to defend".

Here we go again with this... We (pirate types) are NOT LOOKING for a fight. If you find yourself in a fair fight, either you, or your opponent, has not planned correctly. When I interdict someone, I only care about two things: The cargo they have, and the cargo I want. If they dont have any, I let them go!

From what you have said already it's cargo or death - either submit to the dominance of the attacker or lose the ship as well as the cargo.

As to target selection - there is little wonder why traders are generally less than fond of player pirates.

Well, the "cargo or death" part is about right. How else would you expect it to go? And of COURSE the traders arent fond of us... we are PIRATES!

Leto: Yarr! Robert Maynard, ye be handin over yer cargo, or it be the cat o nine tails for ye!
Robert: No, I am not giving you the cargo. I do not like this.
Leto: Arrgh! Foiled again!

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Well, the "cargo or death" part is about right. How else would you expect it to go?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFyuhTwi_OE

You will notice the success-rate skyrocketing

Ok, but seriously, how I expect it to go: Cargo or Fight. Getting traders more on par with Pirates, so they will still have a disadvantage but have a fighting chance. One element that has already been introduced is the interdiction mechanic. Assuming 2 pilots of similar skill, I think it's really hard for an Anaconda to interdict a T-6 (don't do this myself, but it's what I heard). This means the 2 ships will be comparable size wise, unless one of the pilots has a distinct better skills.

Pirates shouldn't be too comfortable interdicting traders. Traders should not be at the mercy. Disadvantaged, sure, but right now, because the pirate can select it's victim, more often than not the pirate will select the easy prey.

 

[Zieman]

Well, the "cargo or death" part is about right. How else would you expect it to go? And of COURSE the traders arent fond of us... we are PIRATES!

Leto: Yarr! Robert Maynard, ye be handin over yer cargo, or it be the cat o nine tails for ye!
Robert: No, I am not giving you the cargo. I do not like this.
Leto: Arrgh! Foiled again!

If your kind were the majority, I'd probably fly in Open all the time too.

Instead (in my experience) it is 90% divided between the two following cases (and iterations in between, almost invariably leading to destruction the trader ship for "pirate" lulz):

1) "pirate": - (starts shooting)
trader: - (gets blown to pieces)

2) "pirate": submit to scan or I'll shoot
trader: ok (stops for scan)
"pirate": abandon 20t of your Gold (or whatever)
trader: ok (abandons said amount)
"pirate": thanks, so long sucker (shoots trader to pieces)

 

[Robert Maynard]

Leto: Yarr! Robert Maynard, ye be handin over yer cargo, or it be the cat o nine tails for ye!
Robert: No, I am not giving you the cargo. I do not like this.
Leto: Arrgh! Foiled again!

... or possibly: <select another system>; <engage hyper-drive>; <evasive manoeuvers>; <shield boosters as required>; <leave the area>

 

[Jockey79]

Good morning, gents!

Good morning

Ready for the push to S.O.G. Mk4 ?

(If on the default layout, page 667 will be the last page)

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Well, the "cargo or death" part is about right. How else would you expect it to go? And of COURSE the traders arent fond of us... we are PIRATES!

Leto: Yarr! Robert Maynard, ye be handin over yer cargo, or it be the cat o nine tails for ye!
Robert: No, I am not giving you the cargo. I do not like this.
Leto: Arrgh! Foiled again!

Q) Do you know what would be good, to reduce the "death" part?
A) Hatch breakers that actually did something and were useful.

 

[Shaamaan]

Here we go again with this... We (pirate types) are NOT LOOKING for a fight. If you find yourself in a fair fight, either you, or your opponent, has not planned correctly. When I interdict someone, I only care about two things: The cargo they have, and the cargo I want. If they dont have any, I let them go!

And then you miss the second half of my post.

SOME people DO enjoy that kind of interaction and are perfectly happy playing in Open as it is (and that's fine!).

Some, however, do NOT enjoy this kind of interaction, all the while seeing other players (in stations, in SC, etc) gives the world a more "living" feeling. And that, too, is fine!

 

[Leto Thule]

And then you miss the second half of my post.

It wasn't relevant to the point I was making. I didn't disagree with that part, so I didn't include it.

 

[Lateralus]

If you are genuinely worried that an Open PvE mode would take players away from the current Open, then you must realize that some of the players that you want to have in Open (for any reason) are there under duress, not because they want to be.

If you are worried that current Open players might leave for an Open PvE mode, then you are accepting that not everyone you engage with in Open is genuinely consenting to you affecting their game.

You may not have said exactly that, but I assure you plenty of people advocating for Open have...

They're not there 'under duress', there are 4 different modes on offer at the moment (not including the Mobius group), 2 of which are PvP-free. The worry is that too many modes will get offered and the playerbase ends up being spread too thinly... That said if Frontier buffed traders and bounty hunting sufficiently, I would not be against a dedicated open PvE mode.

Frontier must have good reasons for not including that option though... I wonder what they are?

 

[Leto Thule]

Good morning

Ready for the push to S.O.G. Mk4 ?

(If on the default layout, page 667 will be the last page)

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Q) Do you know what would be good, to reduce the "death" part?
A) Hatch breakers that actually did something and were useful.

Very much so. But even then you have to strip shields before you can use em, which involves opening fire.

FYSA the coffee shop on base is closed today. I make no guarantee on the quality or cohesion of today's banter.

 

[Thebadmf]

Why is this still being debated when FD have repeatedly said it's not changing?

/facepalm.

 

[Shaamaan]

It wasn't relevant to the point I was making. I didn't disagree with that part, so I didn't include it.

It kind of is - it was the explanation (at least partial) why some people do not like that kind of interaction.

 

[Leto Thule]

It kind of is - it was the explanation (at least partial) why some people do not like that kind of interaction.

I get that. Im not there to make them happy, I am there to steal their cargo.