I see the changes are welcomed...probably by the same hypocritical people who previously said that flight model is too good, but just perceived as bad...
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The Star Citizen Thread v 4
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I see the changes are welcomed...probably by the same hypocritical people who previously said that flight model is too good, but just perceived as bad...
Yeah it's just for the sake of try to make the already very beaten up point that things got delayed. But yes my post was really about what they reveal of some milestones for next updates after 2.0, 2.1 and so on, no promised dates involved.
It's really that, i love this kind of random Sandbox aspect where you just feel like doing that, and it turns out it works! I need a business partner to bring everything back to Olisar and start a Shop Stand for boxes, vending machines, chairs, etc... Covalex is a type of thing i really want to see them making more, unique things to explore, their lore, the whole unique design behind it... It's awesome.
Nope, i'm attempting to keep on the focus of this topic, Star Citizen the game, while others are focusing on Cloud Imperium Games, there's 2 things, the way the company behaves towards sales, marketing, PR, etc.. etc.. And the actual developers and the game development, i focus on the second, i don't believe for a second that the actual developers have a "gun pointed on their heads" when they record the studio reports to lie about what they are working on.
Now if someone wants to keep posting the same beaten up point that has been posted thousands of times on this thread just to disregard everything positive that can be said about the game development and its progress, well, some like that. And we really shouldn't be discussing each other at all (Frontier forum rules).
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Sadly, there's very little factual information, with regards to, SC to discuss. Which leaves us with speculation over to why the project continues to suffer from a troubled development, the bugs and the limited game play that is currently available. Though I guess we could speculate on how great the game could be, if it is finished, and what would be the minimum would we expect from the project to satisfy us.
Of course, though if you are referring to my post, then I would hope its clear from my deliberate clarifaction that I was not directing or including you within my comments, when I was discussing decidely immoral business practice.
Edit in repsonse to Phil's post below: To be 101% clear. Max, I enjoy your posts and would happily buy you/let you buy me a beer
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Philip Coutts
Volunteer Moderator
And relax. Let's not get personal please. Discuss the game, not other posters.
Thanks awfully
Thanks awfully
Game development is pretty much that, we look at how the development goes and progresses. The 2.0 clears up much of the claims about the troubled development, showing they weren't stuck on a loop unable to deliver any concrete release. The release is expected to be stabilized and it is being so, that's a normal process really. Much of the troubled claims came from the well, delays, that is exactly that that point is mentioned about constantly, in where CIG should behave like big companies do, "Soon" and deliver things when ready instead of predict releases. Hopefully we already see since recently a change on this behavior, not giving any dates and let things release as ready.
The whole list i even made is the same, they only say, we're working on X and Y for the future releases, but not saying "this one comes in some weeks, the other in X date" like they did before when road mapping things (that's why that reply was quite off), it can be frustrating for some have no dates for releases, but it really works out better to avoid disappointments, so i hope they keep that up.
At the end the best way to follow the real development is really from the developers themselves not about what the company publicly does/says, because as obvious, they will behave as a company. Side of that we will see if they are on track after 2.0, as it seems now the pipeline changed to faster updates, feature to feature instead of the ton of time spent on engine and rewrite work.
There's one interview PCGamesN published recently about this: http://www.pcgamesn.com/star-citize...mperium-talk-ambition-and-intangible-progress
@@ Also i understood what you meant, np. Oh, I don't like beer, maybe noddles?
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Oh yes! When they get a moments rest.
With regards to SC, I'm hustling with the rest of the cautious herd and will wait and see. I really hope they pull it off, for my own selfish gamer needs as well as the good of the employees at RSI. In theory SC can be created, given enough talent and time to do so, but the challenges of getting it done while operating under the real-world contraints that come with operating a successful business may be too much. And the tools that they choose to use, with regards to marketing, in their attempt to complete the project, will define the character of the company for years to come.
We shall see. And as to what constitutes 'SC', with regards to what we would accept - at the bare minimum - to recieve as the final product is something I find many people hold differing opinions about.
At any rate, it's exciting stuff and a fascinating study.
@@ Also i understood what you meant, np.
First round is on you!
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Great! I just need to go grab another Noddle Machine, my last one died:
[video=youtube;Cytw4SOhXZ0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cytw4SOhXZ0[/video]
Maybe with the next patch CIG can include that $20,000 cappuccino machine from their offices so that we as a backers can have a closer look........
To be honest I have been very interested in this industry since the early 2000s and have been working in it since the 2010s. Nothing CIG did so far really stand out to me as bad practice or any of the sorts. They even have the nicest and most attentive Customer Service I have run across. They have been developing the game and working hard on it for all the years this project has been alive. I know this because I have read and followed about %90-%95 of all of the material CIG released since 2012. These people are working hard and are not intentionally out there to hurt or scam people. What ever image people are trying to put on the company or the project take your time and go to one of the CIG studios or events. This is a very genuine project. One of the most genuine ones I have run in to. And yes I follow many many projects.
Since we are on the other side of the fence I do understand some resentment towards a potential rival and maybe some expectations that didn't happen. But many KS projects get delayed as well as many game projects get delayed. What matters at the end of the day is the effort and constant work being put forward by the team behind the project and if it is genuine. CIG has been hard working ever since I remember. Even when they were a small studio of 15 they were running around trying to help anybody as much as they could.
I am certainly fine with scepticism or worry towards such a gargantuan and complex project. Yet I still do not think it s acceptable to hate and hope for a project that is crowdfunded by 100s of thousands of people to fail. Since when is it human to hope for people's jobs to be destroyed and people's dreams to be shattered? I thought crowdfunded projects would bring support and mutual admiration and appreciation forward. I certainly see this a lot within the SC community and KS community. That being said I see a lot of people giving me rep for my posts so that guarantees that there is a silent majority that has a more moderate view on things.
Since we are on the other side of the fence I do understand some resentment towards a potential rival and maybe some expectations that didn't happen. But many KS projects get delayed as well as many game projects get delayed. What matters at the end of the day is the effort and constant work being put forward by the team behind the project and if it is genuine. CIG has been hard working ever since I remember. Even when they were a small studio of 15 they were running around trying to help anybody as much as they could.
I am certainly fine with scepticism or worry towards such a gargantuan and complex project. Yet I still do not think it s acceptable to hate and hope for a project that is crowdfunded by 100s of thousands of people to fail. Since when is it human to hope for people's jobs to be destroyed and people's dreams to be shattered? I thought crowdfunded projects would bring support and mutual admiration and appreciation forward. I certainly see this a lot within the SC community and KS community. That being said I see a lot of people giving me rep for my posts so that guarantees that there is a silent majority that has a more moderate view on things.
Baron is about to cry again with Spam of Subs streaming Star Citizen: http://www.twitch.tv/badnewsbaron
I certainly remember the offer of alpha testing plus lifetime access to all content and beta testing rights for all future content. I don't even know if I have the right to all of Squadron 42!
I also remember that anyone with access to the alphas and betas could access every ship that was available using in game currency from the outset. Hence unlike SC there was no ugly encouragement to spend real cash on better ships to test
.
Mr, Nowak...I have not seen anyone hope for the project to fail on this thread (iterations) in a long long while.
Sure, there is plenty of vitriol in the criticism and a few posters acting as a broken record (likely out of frustration) but I don't think it is fair to characterize the folks here as people who are actively trying to end people's livelihoods. If the heat in here is getting to you, then maybe stop contributing to this thread. It isn't like you are the only one who can get information from RSI.
Most of what I see here is a push, perhaps a violent shove, to get people to see the other side of all the spin coming out of CIG. It is an example of how there are people who just don't buy the statements and are not happy with the language coming from CIG. Perhaps their expectations are unrealistic or maybe they just like finding problems in everything but I don't think any of it is personal and I'm sure no one wants to see people lose their jobs (especially with how expensive Santa Monica is to live in).
However you spin it, at the crux of all the issues we see with Star Citizen is poor management and bad planning. It is clear they have finally figured (figuring) it out and are doing things in a more formulated fashion but, for many, that is going to be too little too late. You claim you have been working in the industry for a few years. I highly suggest you take a long look at how they manage the project, resources and scope as it is easy to see (coming from 10 years of project management in software dev and physics) they have had significant issues in that and those examples should help train others on what not to do and what to expect on high exposure and high dollar software projects.
FWIW, it really does look to me like CIG are getting all their ducks in a row and will be producing tangible deliverables. We'll see and I, for one, am hoping they succeed fabulously.
Sure, there is plenty of vitriol in the criticism and a few posters acting as a broken record (likely out of frustration) but I don't think it is fair to characterize the folks here as people who are actively trying to end people's livelihoods. If the heat in here is getting to you, then maybe stop contributing to this thread. It isn't like you are the only one who can get information from RSI.
Most of what I see here is a push, perhaps a violent shove, to get people to see the other side of all the spin coming out of CIG. It is an example of how there are people who just don't buy the statements and are not happy with the language coming from CIG. Perhaps their expectations are unrealistic or maybe they just like finding problems in everything but I don't think any of it is personal and I'm sure no one wants to see people lose their jobs (especially with how expensive Santa Monica is to live in).
However you spin it, at the crux of all the issues we see with Star Citizen is poor management and bad planning. It is clear they have finally figured (figuring) it out and are doing things in a more formulated fashion but, for many, that is going to be too little too late. You claim you have been working in the industry for a few years. I highly suggest you take a long look at how they manage the project, resources and scope as it is easy to see (coming from 10 years of project management in software dev and physics) they have had significant issues in that and those examples should help train others on what not to do and what to expect on high exposure and high dollar software projects.
FWIW, it really does look to me like CIG are getting all their ducks in a row and will be producing tangible deliverables. We'll see and I, for one, am hoping they succeed fabulously.
I 100% agree, regarding CIG and SC, I must say it not very well managed and as someone who do this for a living I use it as an example of how not to do it!
Money is nice, however it can't fix wrong decisions.
Are these the people refusing refunds in a nice and attentive way when people are unhappy with the space sim they backed becoming a fps/freelancer mashup ?.
All 4 of them, or just the 3. Accurate information is important.
Reading and following counts for very little when the released product is self evidently nowhere near what was promised in terms of delivery dates featured content and stability. Hype only goes so far.
Every time you get annoyed you have a little dig at ED, ED is a released successful game that delivers and is about to release it's first major expansion. SC doesn't compare well and this is the ED forum so getting you're digs in is a bad idea. SC has a lot of ground to cover before it gets into rival territory.
I think the resentment may be towards the game that delivered more for less in a shorter time.
Delays happen, a simple explanation and revised release date would suffice.
Trying to shave years off the development time, refusing release dates and repeatedly talking down to people because "they don't understand game development" is counter-productive.
This isn't RSI's forum differing views are allowed, even if you disapprove. Nobodies out to destroy anything (except maybe DS's stalkers, they seem quite worked up), even the sceptics want the game to succeed, we're all fans of space sims. We just don't think it's possible based on the way the development is being managed and marketed.
The "silent majority" don't post on or read forums, they read game reviews/listen to mates and buy or don't buy accordingly.
When star citizen approaches release and needs gaming press coverage they may regret the way the SC community has reacted towards press articles. I'm sure the escapist magazine's review will be interesting.
He said years, that is the accurate information. I find absolutely amazing the need to place 4 not 3 in there, Ah well!
The truth is really, the majority, is the silent majority that just does not care at all of this, does not get involved, one way or the other. The silent majority of the backers this is.
In front of the silent majority, we're all small minorities.
There's also a silent majority that reads through the thread that does not post, the Reps given show this to one extent i wasn't expecting, but understandable.
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Those that want the crowdfunding succeed and Star Citizen succeed are in my opinion, those who criticize more the CIG's marketing PR/attitude. And I have no problem to say that people like Derek Smart and me are those who want and show in practice that wants SC succeeds more than anyone else and are making more effort than any of these fans for such thing happening.
And those who actually support CIG no matter what, applaud, do not see any consequence for their attitude, accept, "live with it" and only look to the things in the short-term, are those who want to fail... both... Star Citizen and crowdfunding. No attention that they want to give only to the current development will save them in the end of the consequences of what they have been doing, and structuring their whole business along these behavioral lines.
I mean... in practice, that is the irony. But, I agree that nobody wants SC to fail, for real. I (and i can see Derek been in a similar position) can differentiate Star Citizen, the project, of individuals that are working to make Star Citizen. So, yes. As cold as this sounds, I know that if CIG keeping some people there in certain roles that they are, Star Citizen will continue to a path to a certain fail. Not really mattering too much, all the effort that those developers, those that are really professionals, are doing.
And man... Chances were given... feedback were given so those people improved themselves. But they lost their chances and demonstrated no interest to improve themselves and are basically ruining the project and the effort of who is actually working to SC see the light of the day and be a successful game, enough to cause a change in the industry that those fans are "fighting for". All that because personal proud, lack of professionalism, celebrity complex and lack of capacity to balance money pursuit with long term survival and keep people really trusting or really suprised (not getting staled as Roberts said in the past, remember?).
Willing that incompetent people that refuses to become competent, and that are ruining the project to leave, is not willing to the project to fail. It's the opposite. That's a huge difference that some fans and even neutral people are unable to see, from what I noticed at least. They confuse "Star Citizen" with Sandi Gardiner, Ben Lesnick or even Chris Roberts. These are different entities and definitely one can survive and become a lot better without the other.
And as more people can claim that want SC succeeds and hope, which in the end of the day is irrelevant, the true is that for some people with experience and analysing the facts and the own history of this own project, we do not see this miracle that people are always expecting coming next happening. Of course, many are always pretending, eagerly to defend/promote CIG, that whatever they do is awesome, but we know that this is not how the majority thinks and we know that the majority of things that they did, all things considered (specially due their marketing/pr attitude) is a capital MEH.
I mean... it's like to say to a guy who spent his life studying drugs, knowing and understanding very well that drugs are always bad and always will cause harm to people, but a certain person won't have the same issues because... because... is Chris Roberts.
Of course, there is a possibility and a hope that he could not suffer any harm and there is this chance that there is divine power involved, who knows... but man... this is right? That is anything, but reasonable. Specially when you watch the guy, while claiming that could have such divine power, already coughing and already starting to feel and show the symptoms that the drugs are hurting him.
Of course, I am making an analogy here with the continuous mistakes/attitudes that CIG commit in their marketing/pr that will have fatal consequences... not saying that Roberts is a drug addicted.
ALL problems, without exception, are just a reflex of that. But reading what the "supporters" say (who say things like, this is beaten to dead, this is off-topic and what matters is to talk about whatever has been under development right now and this is not a personal attack to anyone who supports in such way, because I understand perfectly why they do what they do and I know that anyone, one day or another, did, or will make the same mistake for same kind or different kind of passion) anyone can see why CIG is always taking the wrong direction and have been digging a hole, a true abyss that no rope will be big enough to bring them back in the end, as a company, and those other entities will end truly happy, personally, but that won't mean the success of Star Citizen
And we know what happens when you try to discuss such subjects in the CIG Forums or indicate issues with the work of those people, that they should improve, instead getting proud or feeling threatened in all their paranoid behavior. And we know what weapons they use to keep them in their comfortable positions, which people have been deluded that "its for the greater good".
The fact that the fans do not differentiate the Star Citizen project of individuals and their celebrity status is what is ruining the chances to this project be rescued. And I don't see that changing, I only see that becoming worst, and the consequences of all that, I have no problem to set in stone: a flop (which does not mean that the game, in whatever status that be "released" won't survive, though pathetically, along the years).
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Current development time is 4 years 1 month.
The silent majority will judge the game on release, reviews and peer recommendations.
It could go four ways
Terrible = major drama, possible restrictions for crowdfunding in future
Average = drama from the people who've chucked thousands at it, expansions cancelled
Good = game of the year, expansions new campaigns great fun
BDSSE = possibly in a parallel universe, but not this one
(I know what you mean about the rep I get loads in this thread)
Star Citizen is on the Top of Games of Twitch being Streamed, a lot of people having fun watching, it's kinda cool i end up watching some streamers playing SC instead of playing SC.
Now with the Live Release planned for TODAY depending on testing, everybody can get to play, if all goes well.
Wow, you even have the details up to the month, something the official statements of the first asset prototype didn't even had! I love that way of thinking, that way i can also say ED was also in development for whatever time before the KS, after all, they shown gameplay during KS. For me it's 3 years, something that ended up scraped because the scope increase, is what we play, that millions and millions of lines of code that we today, play, are the work done from after the KS.
The silent majority of the backers yes. They don't care about this stuff, they want the game, and are waiting for it, simple. The silent majority of this thread readers may be because of its agressivity towards people with positive feedback on the game, how dare somebody say something that isn't negative towards CIG/SC, hmmm.
Now with the Live Release planned for TODAY depending on testing, everybody can get to play, if all goes well.
Wow, you even have the details up to the month, something the official statements of the first asset prototype didn't even had! I love that way of thinking, that way i can also say ED was also in development for whatever time before the KS, after all, they shown gameplay during KS. For me it's 3 years, something that ended up scraped because the scope increase, is what we play, that millions and millions of lines of code that we today, play, are the work done from after the KS.
The silent majority of the backers yes. They don't care about this stuff, they want the game, and are waiting for it, simple. The silent majority of this thread readers may be because of its agressivity towards people with positive feedback on the game, how dare somebody say something that isn't negative towards CIG/SC, hmmm.
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...They launched a live, playable full release commercial product with a continuous update / patching cycle and now preparing for a "season 2 major release".
Any time you try and insinuate something negative against ED, you reduce the quality of your arguments.
Maybe if you picked something still in Dev with no release date, maybe NMS (correct me if I am wrong?) you might look on less shaky ground.
As for "The Silent Majority", anyone who tries to speak for them, or decide their opinion looks silly. People are silent, that is the end of it.
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