The Star Citizen Thread v 4

[MaxLexandre]

You can't generalize like that.
Plenty of large gaming websites cover a lot of crowfunded games without bias.

Yes of course, there's cases things are way more balanced and without bias, but several great games have to live on the shadow of this giants and struggle to make it to one front-page and i hate that, not really mentioning SC there, because its exposure, positive and negative is huge, but truth told, it's only because there's 100M in the title or on the title headline hehe.

Fair enough just can't recall that anyone here call someone specifically by name and point that he is an whale or cultist like you guys did it on previous page?

Nobody can do that directly, yes indirectly, cause rules you know, it does happen. Best ignored because no positive outcome will ever come from that. The indirect of "whales defending its investment" is the most frequently used here, indirectly of course. Or pointing "fresh account to post on this thread" to people with positive feedback but never point the other "fresh accounts" to post the negatives, it's just meh.

Doesn't hurt my feelings anyway so i don't feel like calling anybody out (neither we can do it), but comments, sure.

<SNIP>

And you could at least try to follow the rules of this forum when it comes to directly discuss other users personally in here. Then don't come implying i'm the one using "tactics" to silence you when the Frontier Moderators read the thread. --'
If the discussion keeps hitting this, it will end up locked.

 

[jcrg99]

And you could at least try to follow the rules of this forum when it comes to directly discuss other users personally in here. Then don't come implying i'm the one using "tactics" to silence you when the Frontier Moderators read the thread. --'
If the discussion keeps hitting this, it will end up locked.

Coming from the person who always start to derail the discussions to transform statements of discussion about the game in personal attacks against him, that was pretty much ironic. Probably did not even read my post that included a praise.
Earlier you tried to claim that I was challenging the ED moderation. Now you try to make appear that I am attacking you and disrespecting rules. That's a nice fiction that you are trying to create here sir. Nice job.

So, let's go back to the discussion then. Why do you think that its a "conspiracy theory" that David Swofford encouraged people to do what they were doing, when I even shown an actual video proving that? Because in the time that he said that, people were already toxic when defending Star Citizen. They always were, toxic, attacking dissenters and/or challenging, claiming that SC was the ultimate thing that would "change the industry" and "ruin the consoles and publishers". That was how in general people came to "rescue" CIG in comments sections of SC news.

And he claimed to visit and check comment sections of Star Citizen news and then, he praised people for what they did. No mention to people that were attacking others, for example, Shouldn't he mention that, to try to help people to defend SC in the right way? Because the end result of an idol, saying to some person that is going there and is attacking everyone that criticize or doubt about the project, that he is doing the right thing and applauding, what would you expect that did? Well.. they just continue and do that a lot more. Was that good for Star Citizen and its community?

And considering that its an absolute mistake, a double-edge sword that is hurting the CIG reputation and the reputation of its community. What the community and CIG is doing to address that?

Let me answer that... Nothing... and let me answer what will happen with those who try ... they will end to be considered haters, both by CIG and its community. It does not matter who you are or how you behave. They made you a "troll"/"hater" when they want (at least, in their circle)

 

[MaxLexandre]

Coming from the person who always start to derail the discussions to transform statements of discussion about the game in personal attacks against him, that was pretty much ironic.
Earlier you tried to claim that I was challenging the ED moderation. Now you try to make appear that I am attacking you and disrespecting rules. That's a nice fiction that you are trying to create here sir. Nice job.

About the game? Or about the company and its individuals? Or about the Backers of this game? Rarely about the game sir, rarely about the game. Still, i discuss the statements not the user who posted the statements, there's other people in here that are more willing to do that. Implying that is ironic, when had discussions with you, you gone personal to imply my lack of "logic" and several other things, that's derailing to personal.

This is Simple: I'm not a Moderator of this forum, so, i can't use any tactics to silence you, only the moderators can, so, if there is a problem, is between you and the moderators, not me. This is ridiculous.

I'm not here at the orders of anybody from CIG, neither do i have the desire to defend anybody, yet discuss THEIR GAME. People who discuss or have positive feedback on Star Citizen on this thread are not "hired by CIG" to do so. --'

 

[Voivod]

Yes of course, there's cases things are way more balanced and without bias, but several great games have to live on the shadow of this giants and struggle to make it to one front-page and i hate that,

I don't know what sites you read but the ones I do really don't have the problem you mention.
They cover all sorts of different games and each article gets the same exposure.
Obviously there's going to be more articles about more popular games or at times when certain games have interesting development changes might occupy more article space but that's logical and expected.
One of the largest MMO sites had daily articles for 1-2weeks (while interesting things were happening in it's development) for a game that had 200 concurrent users at peak.

That's why when SC fans keep going on about this publisher bias and how any site that publishes an SC article with a single critical sentence is suddenly on publisher payroll is absolutely ridiculous.
Ironically these are the same people that ridicule some people for being conspiracy theorists when they talk about SC financials or whatever.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

This is Simple: I'm not a Moderator of this forum, so, i can't use any tactics to silence you, only the moderators can, so, if there is a problem, is between you and the moderators, not me. This is ridiculous.

Could you please stop bringing up the moderators all the time. If you have an issue with someone then report them.
These continuous passive aggressive posts are getting very tiring.

 

[MaxLexandre]

I don't know what sites you read but the ones I do really don't have the problem you mention.
They cover all sorts of different games and each article gets the same exposure.
Obviously there's going to be more articles about more popular games or at times when certain games have interesting development changes might occupy more article space but that's logical and expected.
One of the largest MMO sites had daily articles for 1-2weeks (while interesting things were happening in it's development) for a game that had 200 concurrent users at peak.

That's why when SC fans keep going on about this publisher bias and how any site that publishes an SC article with a single critical sentence is suddenly on publisher payroll is absolutely ridiculous.
Ironically these are the same people that ridicule some people for being conspiracy theorists when they talk about SC financials or whatever.

A publisher feeds the media the stream of marketing material the media, that is what the big media outlets are most used to. There is bias on some, there isn't on others, the gaming media is mostly opinion articles these days, and i really couldn't care less about that, the discussion of the big media outlets been on the payroll of big publishers has been ongoing for many years before Star Citizen.

Could you please stop bringing up the moderators all the time. If you have an issue with someone then report them.
These continuous passive aggressive posts are getting very tiring.

I'm not bringing the moderators, he is, he implies that i'm the one that is trying to silence people by moderation?

And i'm not up to turn this thread into a "Report Post Party". Well, maybe is better to call a moderator to this thread then.

 

[jcrg99]

That's why when SC fans keep going on about this publisher bias and how any site that publishes an SC article with a single critical sentence is suddenly on publisher payroll is absolutely ridiculous.
Ironically these are the same people that ridicule some people for being conspiracy theorists when they talk about SC financials or whatever.

This thing about evil publishers willing to SC to fail, or even people in general willing them to fail, is another effect of the own message of Chris Roberts in his campaign of 'us vs. them' and also to try to rewrite the past, making him, a man of success that was "hold by publishers", instead a bad project manager that screwed with the publisher money and trust on him. They created, from the beginning, this hostile scenario. And they put a lot of focus on that, specially in the earlier days, but kept coming back with such arguments in almost all their letters and statements.

The ridiculous part of such idea is that in fact, all the publishers would love Star Citizen succeed financially and publicly. That would mean another market, that was absolutely dead, to explore. It's not like the publishers are tied and couldn't find ways to use crowdfunding themselves too (which already have been happening in some specific cases), if crowdfunding ended gaining a massive trust of the general public.

It is also annoying when I listen those people claiming that others do not understand what crowdfunding is. What CIG did is far to be crowdfunding in a traditional way. What they did and do, is to take advantage of the purpose of crowdfunding as a marketing excuse to make money (which the reason for this making money, is at the minimum, questionable, all things considered). They are using crowdfunding as a mask and using it with lack of responsibility enough to ruin people's trust, and a lot of people, in this method of game/project creation, both in terms of willing to finance anything that CIG could suggest in the future, or what any other company/people could present. For what? Just to try to bait some whales, regardless how many will be disappointed.

So, yes, these televangelism tactics that CIG used are lame and a shame, and in my opinion, just with the purpose to make them easy targets for suggestions, to be milked as never before in the game industry.

They are like the people who claim to support green, but throw oil in the river all days. "Oh, I support green initiatives, but well, you know, its just life, I have to take care of my family".

 

[Monk]

- eh, here we go again

ANYWAY

I got in a longer session with 2.0 last night. The free Gladius and Mustang are now gone

I upgraded my Aurora MR to the LN for the extra firepower because the MR was just getting beat up to heck in some of those pirate interactions. I gotta say, for what is there, I had a good amount of fun and am feeling really encouraged about the progress of the game.

I got my Christmas bonus, so I went ahead and purchased the Mustang Beta and am really liking flying that ship too.

I was getting tired of the low framerate and general glitchiness of the Universe so I dropped into Arena Commander with my new Mustang. Did some Vanduul Swarm and man can that little ship take a beating. Got all the way through the third elite wave before I finally had my engine blown out. The FM changes are clearly there but seem only to deal with the ship's inertia. Spent a good deal of time learning to work with the drift and am fairly pleased with how it turned out. The turn rate for these smaller ships doesn't really feel out of place and (I know I've said it before) feels so much like Freelancer. Though, I hitched a ride in a constellation and still feel those turn too well. Flying a ship that size should require skill at combating drift using thrusters while you wait to come about. I know its no Imperial Cutter, but I feel that ship shouldn't be able to just hop off the pad, twist around so quickly and go. It should be a ship that is not forgiving of last minute decisions.

Also, AC seems to be running much more smoothly than I remember. Though, that could just be placebo after wrestling with low frames in the Universe.

I'll have one more go at SC 2.0 while I download Horizons tonight. After that, I'll wait until 2.1 before getting back in.

 

[Voivod]

A publisher feeds the media the stream of marketing material the media, that is what the big media outlets are most used to. There is bias on some, there isn't on others, the gaming media is mostly opinion articles these days, and i really couldn't care less about that, the discussion of the big media outlets been on the payroll of big publishers has been ongoing for many years before Star Citizen.

Every site has some sort of agenda. If you don't agree with it then pick another site.
Saying every site that has some sort of criticism about SC is on publishers payroll is just regurgitated propaganda.

 

[MaxLexandre]

Every site has some sort of agenda. If you don't agree with it then pick another site.
Saying every site that has some sort of criticism about SC is on publishers payroll is just regurgitated propaganda.

And i have never said such, there's cases and cases where there can be bias, or just legit criticism. People who try to ignore any criticism that pops on the media with that claim, it won't be me. Part of the criticism also happens because some extremist people go too far into attacking posters/journalists who might had posted criticism they did not like, that is what i hate that causes the silly generalization of the whole community being judged by the actions of some.

 

[jcrg99]

And i have never said such, there's cases and cases. People who try to ignore any criticism that pops on the media with that claim, it won't be me. Part of the criticism also happens because some extremist people go too far into attacking posters/journalists who might had posted criticism they did not like, that is what i hate that causes the silly generalization of the whole community being judged by the actions of some.

Yes. Exactly. You just answered one of my questions. Now the following is. What you, the other folks who apparently support that they are wrong and CIG are doing about that?
I mean... what is the more effective good thing for CIG and Star Citizen here...

1-) To keep more these folks, because silence the criticism is good, in whatever way.

2-) Wipe them, going against them, putting them as bad examples, banning them from your controlled places, so they don't spread their toxicity and make more harm than good for the game?

If CIG and people are all ok to ban people who usually criticize them more, why they don't ban these people who in the eager to defend the game, screw more the project than anyone that criticizes CIG? In other words, true trolls hidden as fans...
Why these people keep getting support, instead the usual supporters going there and reproving their attitude or even "flagging them like zergs", just like they do with those who criticize?
Why CIG got some of this people and applaud them and put them as examples of the community, as was the case of that guy who made terrible things with that girl in the CIG Forums and still got support and "love" of Sandi Gardiner? Is it just a coincidence that he spent 30k in the game? Do you agree with Sandi's attitude?

 

[MaxLexandre]

Yes. Exactly. You just answered one of my questions. Now the following is. What you and CIG are doing about that?

I couldn't care less, i'm here for the game, not for the company and not for what some people on the community do or say. Completely irrelevant to the actual game development that is what i care about.

All of that is just irrelevant, i don't feel for me the Forums/Chat/Reddit are a good place to engage with the community, so i don't, instead i just lurk around them. I found recently a nice place, as the official Discord Channels for the PTU where left open for 2.0, and i'm now there. It's simple for me, go around pressing the same key during years about the same thing is just a massive waste of time and drama.

 

[jcrg99]

I couldn't care less, i'm here for the game, not for the company and not for what some people on the community do or say. Completely irrelevant to the actual game development that is what i care about.

No. It's not completely irrelevant. These things, marketing/pr/community management/image/level of trust makes a whole difference in the end of the day and can even ruin the game developed, regardless his quality, specially in a niche scenario where a more hardcore public is involved. Between top-10 causes of games failing, definitely this would be or number 1, or number 2 in most of the cases. Even Roberts recognizes that, at least in speech, or at least when its convenient for him, when he claimed for example, that some of his fails were caused by issues in these areas, not due the quality of the game/movie developed, or at least, that ended impacting on that, or in the perception of the people (like launching a movie in the wrong moment, for example, one of his excuses for the Wing Commander movie catastrophic result). Many people that made a good job, even a good acting, were screwed by that. Their efforts, years of effort, were thrown to the garbage. So, nope... this is far to be completely irrelevant.

So, is probably more relevant to discuss from those interested in the good end of the company/project, without screwing with anything else too, than the game development itself, because if you don't change some attitude/approaches/strategies and even people behind such jobs when they continuously screw the things, you ruin the whole thing, while what is been coded, can in general be changed/fixed more easily than changing these things when its too late (not saying that its easy all the times or that is irrelevant... but the fact is, both subjects are relevant, instead one been completely irrelevant as you say). If you take too long to move, to change, there is no coming back in some point... becomes a natural practice, the blood of the company and its community, out of control, and lead to bad results and a bad ending.

But it's ok that you don't want to discuss that. Just do not say that its irrelevant. Its embarrassing. It shows your lack of knowledge about game business or business in general, which I have the impression that you tried a few times to claim that have. I could be wrong of course. Maybe could be another guy and I got confuse now with the user names. Maybe you should just do not involve yourself in such discussions, to claim with your supposed wisdom about "conspiracy theories", because you end just derailing them due your lack of knowledge of that and the importance of that
(just like I avoid to involve myself in some discussions where I have no clue or too few knowledge about, like Space physics and stuff like that, because I probably would talk just wrong things or screw with a productive discussion about such matter. I mean... I love ED and I would try to defend ED too in a discussion, but if that was about space physics, I would stay quiet and let probably others with proper knowledge to discuss and if anyone had anything to say, I would just let it go and let the devs deal with that with their knowledge and official answer, instead me, trying to give all the answers and derailing discussions, just because I want to make all tip of criticisms disappear and having an answer for everything, even if be silly like "oh, conspiracy theory")

 

[MaxLexandre]

No. It's not completely irrelevant. These things, marketing/pr/community management/image/level of trust makes a whole difference in the end of the day and can even ruin the game developed, regardless his quality, specially in a niche scenario where a more hardcore public is involved. Between top-10 causes of games failing, definitely this would be or number 1, or number 2 in most of the cases.

So, is probably more relevant to discuss from those interested in the good end of the company/project, without screwing with anything else too, than the game development itself, because if you don't change some attitude/approaches/strategies and even people behind such jobs when they continuously screw the things, you ruin the whole thing, while what is been coded, can in general be changed/fixed more easily than changing these things when its too late. If you take too long to move, to change, there is no coming back in some point... becomes a natural practice, the blood of the company and its community, out of control, and lead to bad results and a bad ending.

But it's ok that you don't want to discuss that. Just do not say that its irrelevant. Its embarrassing. It shows your lack of knowledge about game business, which I have the impression that you tried a few times to claim that have. I could be wrong of course. Maybe could be another guy and I got confuse now with the user names.

Not really no, most hated companies produce also produce most amazing games, sad but true. On community side, when i saw the awful toxic community of LoL, just don't go near it and you will be fine, the game is still incredibly successful.

I don't use this username anywhere else, at the end is irrelevant because a good game will always speak for itself louder than anybody else could, on SC that already happened a bit with 2.0 and it will keep doing so as long they keep a steady progress on it, if they keep up with that, slowly, sad massive dramas will turn into people having fun playing a game.

Scott Manley was also attacked by some extremist people when he said some stuff about SC drama going on, during the PTU he got invited, joined the Discord channel, and we go to have discussions about SC, it's problems, as well other stuff, without extremes, then, he got to see one side of the community people never mention that is: a normal community. That's why when the devs were thinking into shutting down the channel after Live, even he came to say to do not do it as that would be the best interaction he ever had with the SC community. And for me that is the only place i interact with the other backers currently, the rest i just lurk, and i'm happy with it.

As i said, it's simple for me, go around pressing the same key during years about the same thing is just a massive waste of time and drama. Specially go as far as silly conspiracies and the most extremist behavior against the game company and its community i have EVER seen on my life.

 

[jcrg99]

Not really no, most hated companies produce also produce most amazing games, sad but true. On community side, when i saw the awful toxic community of LoL, just don't go near it and you will be fine, the game is still incredibly successful.

Total different scenario. LOL is not a niche. At least, not a tiny one that includes only hardcore people.

I don't use this username anywhere else, at the end is irrelevant because a good game will always speak for itself louder than anybody else could, on SC that already happened a bit with 2.0 and it will keep doing so as long they keep a steady progress on it, if they keep up with that, slowly, sad massive dramas will turn into people having fun playing a game.

Not really. It depends of the perception that the public will look to the game. And that changes a lot, for worst, in general, specially in the scenario that CIG built to themselves.

Scott Manley was also attacked by some extremist people when he said some stuff about SC drama going on, during the PTU he got invited, joined the Discord channel, and we go to have discussions about SC, it's problems, as well other stuff, without extremes, then, he got to see one side of the community people never mention that is: a normal community. That's why when the devs were thinking into shutting down the channel after Live, even he came to say to do not do it as that would be the best interaction he ever had with the SC community. And for me that is the only place i interact with the other backers currently, the rest i just lurk, and i'm happy with it.

This solution does not involve all people that are affected by the bad apples that CIG and fans ends more encouraging than discouraging their attitude.

As i said, it's simple for me, go around pressing the same key during years about the same thing is just a massive waste of time and drama.

No drama. That is business. Almost like a paradox, drama is calling serious business like drama. You just underestimate the importance of some points that I and other raised just because you have lack of knowledge about these matters and will believe that whatever CIG says or do, is the right thing. So, just do not involve yourself in such discussion and let other do that, even if that sounds "critical" in your eyes. Because you end just derailing the discussions and who knows, eventually CIG can hear that, can wake up and maybe change in time? Who knows. There are a lot of people trying to spread the word to make CIG do the right thing, even if doing the right thing is to give up of some easy/quick money (with bad impacts for the future).

Specially go as far as silly conspiracies and the most extremist behavior against the game company and its community i have EVER seen on my life.

Not conspiracies. Business. You just have no idea what is this... clearly. Just respect those who have an idea what is this. It's like I enter in a discussion about physics and claiming that "is silly". I hope you understand my point. Just let it go. You don't have to defend CIG in anything. Specially in matters that you clearly do not understand and just "trust" on CIG. That is the mature attitude that you should have, and your community would be a lot better if realizing that. These is the kind of "spread the word" campaign that you people should be more worried about and pursuiting. The "spread the word" for money got old and only makes harm for your game.

 

[MaxLexandre]

Not really. It depends of the perception that the public will look to the game. And that changes a lot, for worst, in general, specially in the scenario that CIG built to themselves.

The perception that the media massive reports on the game being a scam and vaporware suddenly is traded by the major 2.0 update? IDK but that may be why the funding is having one high boost on funding after the 100M outside any sale, etc... That's new people. It was the massive drama before that caused the media to catapult SC this days on articles that are reaching mainstream channels as BBC, Verge, etc...

This solution does not involve all people that are affected by the bad apples that CIG and fans ends more encouraging than discouraging their attitude.

We will have to agree to disagree.

No drama. That is business. Almost like a paradox, drama is calling serious business like drama.
Not conspiracies. Business. You just have no idea what is this, clearly. Just respect those who have an idea what is this.

Nothing to do with business, a clash of personal feelings, speculation and yes, conspiracies theories surrounding many things that only show a deep hatred against a company and its community. No proof or anything needed, just massive walls of words. So i have to respect and so do you is, your view of this things, by far, will i agree with it.

 

[1500]

Well CIG denied my request for a refund.

Hi there,

We have reviewed your account status and regret that we are not able to accommodate your request for a refund since it was received outside of the statutory 14 day period.

Your pledge was made as part of the crowdfunding campaign to raise funds for the development of “Star Citizen.” As such you were aware that the funds would be actively applied after receipt for this purpose, not idly maintained in a bank account, and therefore could not be subject to a refund once used. As you may know from the extensive information on our website Robertsspaceindustries.com, Cloud Imperium Games has been working diligently over the past 3 years on the development of the game, and now employs over 260 staff in four studios. 2,538 reports, updates and web shows have been made available during this time, and first modules with limited gameplay were offered as early as in fall of 2013 – by now hundreds of thousands of gameplay hours have been played on our servers. The development of the game is proceeding steadily, and a substantial part of the promised game offering dozens of gameplay hours has been made available to the backers in early release versions (see further detail below).

Pursuant to the terms of your agreement (see Sec. 4 of the Commercial Terms, and Sec. IV.A of the subsequent Terms of Service, as applicable, https://robertsspaceindustries.com/tos), your payment was a deposit to be used for the “Game Cost” (as defined therein), and such deposit has since been “earned by CIG and become non-refundable to the extent that it is used for the Game Cost...” You further agreed to “irrevocably waive any claim for refund of any deposit amount that has been used for the Game Cost and Pledge Item Cost in accordance with the above.” The only exception would be a return of unearned funds remaining in case of an abandonment of the project. If you pledged on Kickstarter, you agreed to these terms when you transferred your pledge account to robertsspaceindustries.com.

These terms are consistent with the specific nature of crowdfunding and the foreseeable use of your pledge – we hope you appreciate that we cannot ask our hard working personnel to return some of their salary nor that it would be appropriate to use current backers’ funds provided for game development as a refund for an earlier and committed pledge.

While a substantive part of the promised gameplay is now available, we acknowledge that delivery of some game elements has been delayed due to expansion of Star Citizen’s scope. This expansion is a result of the community’s declared desire to have the initial release version of the game developed to a much greater depth than contemplated originally upon start of the campaign. It is inherent to the nature of crowdfunding that such an adjustment to the project may occur. Ultimately, this will benefit all backers including yourself, since every backer will be receiving a much greater value for his/her pledge, but it may – as in this case – cause an extension of the delivery dates.

We acknowledge that some individual backers may find the additional wait undesirable. However, as per Sec. VII of the ToS, you did “acknowledge and agree that delivery as of such date is not a promise by RSI since unforeseen events may extend the development and/or production time.”

We’d like to point you to the significant gameplay which is now available; https://robertsspaceindustries.com/feature-list and if you haven't already, we encourage you to download the installer from this url: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/download and patch up to play the latest version of the game.

Star Citizen is a project for gamers, by gamers. Delays and changes are always unfortunate, but in our case they are also one of the reasons the project is so special. By financing the project using crowd funding, our team is not beholden to a publisher who would insist we ship a game unfinished or broken to meet a particular date. Thanks to continued backing of our community, we have the needed creative freedom over the project, to create a unique game, and we feel the results, such as unparalleled immersion and fidelity, are already speaking for themselves!

We sincerely hope you enjoy the updates both current and future in the Star Citizen 'Verse.

Thank you.
RSI Customer Service Management

So you wanted proof that CIG denies refunds, here you go.

 

[jcrg99]

The perception that the media massive reports on the game being a scam and vaporware suddenly is traded by the major 2.0 update? IDK but that may be why the funding is having one high boost on funding after the 100M outside any sale, etc... That's new people.

Proof?

Nothing to do with business... speculation and yes, conspiracies theories surrounding many things that only show a deep hatred against a company and its community. No proof or anything needed, just massive walls of words.

See what I did here? So show me your proof about your speculation for what I also could call "conspiracy theory" by using your same logic and mindset? Should I suggest that you are a fanatic fanboy cultist too, since, because was not you and was the contrary of your cause, you concluded that is all a deep hatred against the company. I am just using your logic here. It's not what I think about you.

 

[MaxLexandre]

Proof?

See what I did here? So show me your proof about your speculation for what I also could call "conspiracy theory" by using your same logic and mindset?

Using logic, the 2.0 update (ofc with the 100M) being reported on the media that from the ones i saw, have a reach of dozens of millions via media > social networking, obviously results in new backers. Saying otherwise would be insane.

 

[jcrg99]

Well CIG denied my request for a refund.



So you wanted proof that CIG denies refunds, here you go.

Don't worry. That is their standard approach. They know that have to give refunds, but they will try, by default, to dumb down you about rights. This is the proof that people fail to see. Trying to deny refunds, to dumb down customer is bad faith on business and that is how it will be faced in a court. Now you have to answer pointing that you understand some matters of the law, how they changed their TOS, removing some guarantees that you should have now, disrespecting their promises, false advertising and threatening to go to FTC and/or making part of a class lawsuit... and so on, and they will refund you.

Do that and you will get your money back. It's your right and they are the ones acting in bad faith here.

 

[Neo-ST]

Well CIG denied my request for a refund.



So you wanted proof that CIG denies refunds, here you go.

If refunds were legitimate (mentioned) in their ToS when you gave them money, then you're entitled to a refund by law.