Why are C4 Plasma Accelerators so incredibly weak?

Ships in Conflict zones definitely have Military Armor, and possibly other hull armor buffs- they are FAR more durable than similar ships found in RES.

Retiring from the combat zones in Kausarya, and moving to the bounty hunting in Hel, there is a HUGE difference in NPC ship quality- The RES ships are utterly fragile. And the 4PAC rocks. I thank the war in Kausarya for honing my combat skills to such a bleeding edge that the RES now feels effortless.

Anadonda wing with 2 Fed Dropships and 2 viper4's??? Bring it!
 
Last edited:
I seem to remember FD saying that they did not want big weapons to instantly fry small ships.
So a C4 weapon does normal (big) damage against an Anaconda, but it scales down vs smaller ships.
Shooting a Sidewinder with C2 PA will produce a similar amount of damage as a C4 PA. But shoot an Anaconda with a C2 PA it will do considerably less than a C4 PA.
The point was to avoid insta-kills on small ships and to promote using big weapons vs big ships.

Seems contrived to create 'balance'.

No, the C2 is actually doing less damage to the Anaconda than to the sidewinder. They both(C2 and C4) do 100% damage to a sidewinder, but the C2 only does 66% damage to an anaconda, which is why it looks like it does a larger relative amount/class. Larger weapons take no damage penalty or bonus to any target, but smaller weapons take a damage penalty against larger targets. It may be that some ships are bugged against certain weapons, particularly the DBX, DBS which seem to be able to shrug of PA shots better than any other ship.
 
It might have had military grade armor, or maybe only one of the plasma balls actually hit. I remember destroying a wanted viper from 100% hull to nothing with a lucky double hit of plasma from my corvette.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -


I can fire 2x small beam lasers and 2x medium pulse lasers, all turreted indefinitely with my a8 distributor 4 pips to wep. They do nice amounts of damage when I'm turning the ship.

They are turrets. They do very, very little damage and draw very little WEP. You should be able to keep them going with a C8 PD.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Yeah, and those Military Grade Composite Bulkheads upgrade actually reduces thermic and kinetic damage by 50%. I guess that would defend against your PA pretty nicely?

Do you have a link to when that changed? Because according to https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=170205&page=2 that is not the case.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

I seem to remember FD saying that they did not want big weapons to instantly fry small ships.
So a C4 weapon does normal (big) damage against an Anaconda, but it scales down vs smaller ships.
Shooting a Sidewinder with C2 PA will produce a similar amount of damage as a C4 PA. But shoot an Anaconda with a C2 PA it will do considerably less than a C4 PA.
The point was to avoid insta-kills on small ships and to promote using big weapons vs big ships.

Seems contrived to create 'balance'.

Small ships are very hard to hit due to the slow top speed of most ships with C4s, and even then they are still pretty challenging. That should be balance enough.
 
No, the C2 is actually doing less damage to the Anaconda than to the sidewinder. They both(C2 and C4) do 100% damage to a sidewinder, but the C2 only does 66% damage to an anaconda, which is why it looks like it does a larger relative amount/class.

A C2 weapon already does less damage than a C4 - why should it do even *less* damage depending on the ship it's shooting? The larger ship already has more armor, more shields - why is the C2 nerfed to begin with?

Small ships are very hard to hit due to the slow top speed of most ships with C4s, and even then they are still pretty challenging.

Small ships are rarely hard to hit due to anything, and are equally rarely a challenge. (EDIT: I haven't flown a Conda or larger, so perhaps in those cases a smaller ship's speed is an issue. With anything smaller than a Python, a small ship's speed gives little combat advantage.)
 
Last edited:
A C2 weapon already does less damage than a C4 - why should it do even *less* damage depending on the ship it's shooting? The larger ship already has more armor, more shields - why is the C2 nerfed to begin with?



Small ships are rarely hard to hit due to anything, and are equally rarely a challenge. (EDIT: I haven't flown a Conda or larger, so perhaps in those cases a smaller ship's speed is an issue. With anything smaller than a Python, a small ship's speed gives little combat advantage.)

Yeah I was talking about the Conda/Corvette/Cuter. Its not (nearly as much of) an issue for the FDL. Though Vultures and some Vipers with their infinite ammo perfect aim C2 PAs and rails can be a threat if left alive too long.
 
Hey, if Lakon isnt lying, the DBS and DBE have a back made of diamond. That could explain it.

But i love my C4 PAC. Only time i was disappointed with it is when i hit a shieldless sidewinder with it and did 0% (turbed out i hit his drives.) Every other ship is just like the red sea. (Pls tell me you got that joke :( )
 
Last edited:
If you're not shredding small ships with a C4 PAC, then you're MISSING. Lay that glowin' ball of purple fusion on a little ship and they are gonna hurt. Watch it fly past them and not so much.
 
In a recent RES battle with an anaconda my 4PAC took the reactor subcomponent target from 100% to 46%... in one shot.

So yes, you are missing. Alternatively, if you are trying to do hull % damage, maybe you have simply been damaging subcomponents- knocking life support, hardpoint weapons, drives, etc down to 46%- which damages the system, without causing hull damage with those "lucky" hits...
 
Tonight I managed to oneshot a python once his shields went down, both huge PA's hit the PP and he popped. Was so beautiful.
 
A C2 weapon already does less damage than a C4 - why should it do even *less* damage depending on the ship it's shooting? The larger ship already has more armor, more shields - why is the C2 nerfed to begin with?



Small ships are rarely hard to hit due to anything, and are equally rarely a challenge. (EDIT: I haven't flown a Conda or larger, so perhaps in those cases a smaller ship's speed is an issue. With anything smaller than a Python, a small ship's speed gives little combat advantage.)
Smaller weapons have always do less damage against bigger ships, are you a new player?
 
Smaller weapons have always do less damage against bigger ships, are you a new player?

Totally incorrect. All weapons do the same damage to all ships they hit. If you check our respective forum history you'll know I'm NOT a "new player". Obvious troll is obvious.
 
Totally incorrect. All weapons do the same damage to all ships they hit. If you check our respective forum history you'll know I'm NOT a "new player". Obvious troll is obvious.


C1 weapon against a large ship suffers a 66% dmg reduction. C2 against a large ship suffers a 33% dmg reduction. C3+ against large ship stays at 100%.

C1 against mediumm ships suffer a 33% dmg reduction. C2+ stays at 100%.
 
Also, some weapons punch harder and do not receive hull damage penalty for targets 1 size above the gun size:
-Cannons
-Rail Guns
-Plasma Accelerator (not sure)

It was also clarified that the penalty (-33% for size difference of one and -66% for size difference of two) applies to hull damage and not to shield damage.
 
Also, some weapons punch harder and do not receive hull damage penalty for targets 1 size above the gun size:
-Cannons
-Rail Guns
-Plasma Accelerator (not sure)

It was also clarified that the penalty (-33% for size difference of one and -66% for size difference of two) applies to hull damage and not to shield damage.

Yep but since we are talking about hull damage here, this is important :).
 
Hull increases and hitting modules instead of hull would explain why so many hits are needed. When you hit a module you do very little to no hull damage, it's always been that way.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Totally incorrect. All weapons do the same damage to all ships they hit. If you check our respective forum history you'll know I'm NOT a "new player". Obvious troll is obvious.

Sorry, you are incorrect on this one.
 
Hull increases and hitting modules instead of hull would explain why so many hits are needed. When you hit a module you do very little to no hull damage, it's always been that way.

Except the OP stated he checked all the modules and they were 100%. It was my first thought too though.
 
Except the OP stated he checked all the modules and they were 100%. It was my first thought too though.

Well, I don't have an answer for it then. :) Some inherent evasion bonus for smaller ships against larger weaponry? I'm sure I'm making up stuff now. :D
 
NPC's now run with armour and armour modules. If you have noticed, some ASP's are much harder to take down now (in respect to hull damage) So this has to be factored in.

Doing a LOT of C4PA testing the past few months on the FDL and Corvette has led me to the conclusion that, although difficult to use, they do a LOT of damage to both hulls and shields. Often what is not discussed about plasma weapons is their splash damage which really is more effective than people realize.

However, as I have always stated, weapons selection is an EXTREMELY personal choice. there are no really bad weapons in Elite Dangerus *cough.. frag canons.. cough..missiles, cough.. cough.. lol... Each weapon has specific pros and cons to their effectiveness... I personally cannot stand the Class 4 Canon, for me it just dosent work, but for others, they obviously think it does. Does that make either one of us right or wrong? No... it boils down a lot to play style and expectations of a weapon.

Most likely I dont use the C4 Canon effectively enough, which also is mostly likely the same problem when people complain about the C4 PA, and that our expectations of these weapons does not match its in game performance. I accept the limitations of the Class 4PA, but yet dont accept the limitations of the Class 4 Canon. And I think that rings true for everyone when it comes to weapons choice.

In the end, if you can take down an anaconda effectively with cannons, pulses, bursts, beams or chopsticks, then stick to that weapon and do what works best for you. For sure, try other peoples suggestions, and experiment with different loadouts, but dont let anyone tell you that one weapons system is better than the other, cause its a load of poopy..

I love my C4PA's and they will have to pry them out of my cold dead hands before I will ever part with them, but I am not kidding myself, they are not the best weapon for all situations, and certainly not the best weapon for those who are not willing to learn how to use them more effectively.
 
The damage of PAs is very wonky right now. I'm doing massive damage per hit to Federal Corvettes (33% on a double hit), but I assume this is because FDev have fumbled it up again and forgotten to put armor on them in the CZ builds.
At the same time, a double hit on a Viper 4, Asp Scout or Asp Explorer is just 21%. A Python is a mere 15%

However, all three medium Federal ships take 40-50% damage from a double PA hit, and those ships haven't been around just since 1.5.

The main issue here is that we have to guess because we don't see absolute hitpoints, and we don't see all modules that can be damaged. So your no damage hit have been to a SCB, the sensors, whatever it is that you can hit and damage but not see on the system scan. One ship might be packed with HREs while the others aren't.

The main issue I see is the huge difference outfitting makes. A ship tanked up with HREs and military grade armor is *multiple times* as tough as the standard version. A sidewinder goes from 108 hull armor to 700. A Viper goes from 126 to 805 (and still has shields!)

The problem with this is that this really extends fighting and weapons with ammo become worth less and less. PAs are great when I need two clips to take out a Python. They're abysmal when I need five. I just shot down those Pythons, Asps and Vipers with my gimballed lasers because if I had actually used the PAs, I would have had to rearm so much sooner - and with a 1300 LS trip back and forth, that's really not viable.

To be clear, I wouldn't mind spending some time wearing down the armor of a ship. However, the rewards should be in order. Stripping down a Viper Mk 4, half a percent per volley, then gaining 20k for that is not ok when I can destroy a pirate Viper Mk 4 in a RES for 60k in 1/4 the time.

Coming back the PAs, I've spent the last few months extensively testing PAs vs lasers in Conflict zones. I used a Python with three large PAs for this (which is more damage than the two huge PA on the Corvette btw) and I compared this to running five gimballed pulse lasers for power plant kills. Ie the most expensive vs the cheapest weapons in the game. Even though I had very high accuracy with the PAs, in my opinion the five laser build was far more efficient at destroying both large ship power plants and small ships. The issue really is that the PA has a slow RoF, is not hitscan and sucks your capacitor dry amazingly quickly compared to the pulses. The fact that they need more than 5 MW of power to run is just the icing on the cake.

I am pretty sure with the introduction of huge fixed beam lasers, the PAs on the Corvette will be obsolete. That will be your burst weapon of choice, because it can't miss (only you can). And huge pulses will be the sustained DPS choice.

There's two issues here FDev should address
1. Unintended module damage is terrible for slow ROF weapons. The entire damage of a PA wasted on a module hit hurts a lot more than having a few ticks of the hundred pulses you fire in the same amount of time hit a module. Since most modules completely ignore damage (and some even ignore being destroyed, such as the power distributor, weapons, life support if you look at it my way), this is not helpful.
A shield generator at 10% recharges as fast a shield as strong as an undamaged one. Only the hit that takes it to 0% matters.
The Power plant works at full capacity at all times. Losing power such as in this example only happens to players. NPCs seem immune to it. I've never stunned an NPC by damaging the power plant
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcDYOaxzd4c
Thrusters work perfectly well until they hit 0%. There is no performance decrease whatsoever.
I don't even know about weapons. I only once managed to put one to 0% because they are nigh impossible to hit, and that weapon kept firing.
Sensors can't even be targeted anymore, for god knows what reason.

2. Buff the PA. Damage, meh I don't know. But raise ammo, raise RoF, lower capacitor consumption, lower power consumption. Just pick a few and go wild. Because right now the weapon is of dubious value. Also make it impossible for the PA to do all damage to a module. It's a giant ball of plasma lobbed at the target. It is not a weapon of precision, intended to strike a specific area of a ship. If it splashes, ok. But the main damage should always be applied to the hull
 
Back
Top Bottom