Is Elite Dangerous a Dad's Game Played mainly by "non-gamers"?

[Salami]

Ok, stop it right there.

What makes you say this?

My bad, SOME.... I missed a word, please accept my apology.

Was there something earlier in this thread pertaining to 1.4 vs the current release? Or did something change and you blame the "non-gamer" for it?

Isn't that a bit like saying "oh the game crashes on my machine some times.. so that's the fault of the non-gamers"?

Who are these "non-gamers" that are responsible for all the bad things that happen in the world?

No, I mean that 1.4 was seemingly (from what I got) a step in the right direction, but which got reverted back to an earlier fase of the game (read this a few times here on the forum).
I did enjoy 1.4 somewhat, i hoped for FAR more improvement in that direction, the opposite happened.
And some actually seem to appraise this.
I respect them, don't get me wrong, but the world evolves, we can't simply put a stop sign in this evolution, stand still in it, now can we?
I blame NO-ONE (well, I dislike the people that act like douches upon progress), I do not even blame ED, for that matter.
I blame "the game", for being it so incredible potential... and sitting still, for whatever reason.

Maybe I just think huge, but God, I see soo much potential...
It's just saddening, the state it is in.

But this is my opinion.
Nothing more.

Im not sure if this is allowed to say but. Go look at Mmo Champion, WoW's main third party fansite, look in the various discussions there, it is a cesspool that is the result of handfed gamers.

now look at ED forums, and be glad its nowhere remotely the same. And ingame, it is even worse. And thats just an example, many games suffer from the handfed gamers of today. Wether im old and used to be one myself, or that i grew older and started to love the journey more i dont know.

but the world needs more ED, it has little to do with moving on or not, but we definately do not need more handfed brats (of all ages) crying for flashy gimmicks and new content every 3 weeks then cry when it isnt what they wanted, and the devs abiding them... We dont need that, do we?

No...
I agree in that regard.

 

[Narase]

X-Series, 6 years WoW (with over 1 year played), Starcraft, Warcraft, Fallout, Tomp Raider
Nah, full gamer

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

If Blade Runner were made today it would have more comedy hi-jinks for the kids also forget the bad cinema ending...Deckard would now need to be seen walking calmly away from an explosion and everything would need to be left open for a sequel.

Don't forget everybody would look like they are still in High School.

 

[Salami]

flashy gimmicks and new content every 3 weeks then cry when it isnt what they wanted, and the devs abiding them... We dont need that, do we?

I do not ask for flashy gimmicks, or for new ships, or things like that.
I would like to see more engagement, more mission options, more interactivity (both player2player as well as player2BSG), I want the game to come ALIVE!!!
Nothing more...
Just... alive.

 

[Iskariot]

Look, I am a noob in this game, but i do see the flaws where "hardcore ED'ers" do not.
I too been into games since the early eighties.

Considering the number of hours I put in this game I am definitely a hardcore ED'er.
And I definitely see flaws and lots of room for improvement in this game.
The dozens of proposals I made are a testimony to that.
But I never whine when FD doesn't dance to my tune.

It is not about hardcore vs non-hardcore, but about those who realize the enormity of this 10 year project vs those who don't get it.
I have a lot of patience to let this huge project get developed over time (10 year project !!!) and I am willing to accept the fact that FD will create the game they want to create the way they want to create it.
They are the devs and they know a lot more about creating games than I do.

So far I think they do a terrific job. ED is so much more than the old Elite games where.
At the same time I feel the game still needs a lot more to become a true classic.
But ED is in the midst of development and FD is a small dev compared to the giants in the industry like UBI, EA and Rockstar.

This project will take time and what disgusts me more than anything is the number of people that are incessantly whining all the way to the finish.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

My bad, SOME.... I missed a word, please accept my apology.

Ok, what makes you say that? Or did you mean "None"?

Because it's a sentiment I have not encountered on this forum.

To be clear, I'm talking about the sentiment that hardcore ED gamers do not see flaws in ED.

 

[Bran Tse Mallory]

The problem is not the age. The problem is people saying "look it was fun in the original Elite so why would you want something else?" You can be all touchy about how hardcore we were (yes I am not that young anymore as well), but you can't ignore that the whole game design theory has made tremendous progress in terms of identifying what is fun, engaging and how to achieve it. Citing "auto health regen", Call Of Duty and stuff like that is just an idiotic strawman. Old games were not hardcore for the sake of being hardcore. There was just no alternative due to technical limitation / lack of understanding. There are tons of modern games that are hard, yet fun. Saying that all modern gaming is super easy gameplay is idiotic and wrong.

Game design theory... It's like being back at school - Fact, it has not changed since Space Invaders, players actions give visable reward on screen, simple. And then you come with the 'its a strawman' argument that people use as a throw away statement when they cannot understand what is being said to them - I see it a lot on these forums and it's a phrase that makes me laugh even more when us Brits use it - we would normally call it an Aunt Sally but some how it's become the norm to use the yanky version.

Games which hold you by the hand, lead you down a one way story and never really present you with any challenge (COD) are very popular but they give the player the 'fix' they have become addicted to, unless you understand how the brain works when we play a game this may seem like an offensive thing to say but it is not. You're brain gives you a release of endorphins, this gives you the happy feeling of doing well. Do well again and you get more!

Gamers are addicts - ED is not giving you you're daily fix.

As for the auto health regen, that's something we put in games because the brief is for fast paced gameplay not players searching for health potions, they get board and complain on forums when you make them work for something that seems out of place in the game they are playing. Then we get to auto aim... A sure sign that today's gamers are relying on the developer to help them play. To say todays games require more skill is just a short sighted comment.

The problem with Elite is not that it has a increadibly steep learning curve. It's that it's failing as a game once you past it.

Take another game based on grind: Diablo. Diablo is totally succeeding as a game where Elite is failing for a simple reason: you are doing the same thing over and over, but you have a clear goal and hope for a reward (loot). That's just game design 101, yet Elite: dangerous is failing at that. I really hope the loot and craft update (2.1, 2.2, whatever) really take the opportunity to work on that. Hell, just make killing a ship drop one of their weapon/module, make the DPS of weapon variable, make Pirate Lords having a high chance of good loot, and yeah, at least you are now farming RES for something else than Credit and killing something give a bit of excitement whilst you are looking at the thing it drop. I am reinventing the wheel here (frak, loot dropping has been here forever to ease grinding game mechanism).

Diablo is a typical action/reward game which you think is a grind. Only you, the player can find something a grind. Yet this same grind is the exact same game design theory you mentioned earlier - kill something and get loot. You do this over and over and over again until the game says well done now do it again with no variation, no option to something different. Diablo is the very definition of what you are comparing it to - D3 is about the most repetitive game ever made since Space Invaders. Great gameplay design, not - which may explain why D3 is nowhere near as popular as D2 was.

Yes, it feel like a vocal part of the community haven't played any game since the 80s and just want their Elite with a nicer graphic engine. They play half an hour per week, have a Cobra and feel like everyone should be happy in that ship. If that's the target Frontier is targeting that's fine, that's just not me.

It's easy to throw an insult at people and make an assumption about them - takes about as much skill as playing CoD TBH. Call it cheap shot.

I have 500h on the game, and nothing else to do. I am a great time there and I would love to play more but when I log in I just don't know what to do. Missions are pointless, trading is stupid and I have to rely on third party tools, exploring was fun for a time but you realise shortly that the time / awe ratio is pretty poor ...I will remember my first 100h on this game fondly, it's one of the best experience I had in years. but the one after were pretty frustrating and never had the excitement of the beginning, because once you know what you are doing, you are just grinding.

There are thousands of games out there which will guide you through an adventure, point out where you need to go, give you nice FMV story bits to keep you informed about why you are doing all these things, you will have great fun being lead by the nose. I hope you enjoy them.

 

[Noob]

If Blade Runner were made today it would have more comedy hi-jinks for the kids also forget the bad cinema ending...Deckard would now need to be seen walking calmly away from an explosion and everything would need to be left open for a sequel.

Don't forget everybody would look like they are still in High School.

Yep, and Roy Batty would come back as 2.0

 

[Salami]

Yes, I had left a word out accidentally, which i "fixed" in a later post.
should've been: SOME hardcore players.
I did not mean all of you.
Again, I apologize.

Something I'd like to add:
I'm now in Mobius.
Decent bunch of fellas, really.
I read post upon post (on FB) about some landing godknowswhere, or heading into unknown zones being near baked due to exiting their HJ in between 2 stars, or finding item X even further away, finding trade route blahblah, and I'm like: "YEAH, awesome, dude. Well done!".
And i actually MEAN what I say.
They make fun in their own way, which I fully support.
But this form of gaming simply is not my thing.

Eve: Hop in ship, head to mine belt blahblah, set up mining vessel, launch protection drones, and stare for HOURS ON END for the cargo bay to be filled.
I simply CANNOT stare watching HOURS on end to a cargo bay being filled up, i simply cannot.

I ended up yesterday with a miner CMDR, while he was mining, I covered him from pirates.
THAT was fun to me.
We talked, laughed, simple joys.
He was quite appreciative, and I was happy for being active.
This I like.

Or teaming up into a larger wing, and go out being ACTIVE.
That then is my ADHD side I reckon.

I do not need blingbling, I want simply some action...

Ok, what makes you say that? Or did you mean "None"?

Because it's a sentiment I have not encountered on this forum.

To be clear, I'm talking about the sentiment that hardcore ED gamers do not see flaws in ED.

Well, if you read into some of the reactions some people get on the forum, you can filter out the folks which i am speaking of.
Note, I'm speaking of folks that simply REFUSE change.
For the record.

 

[Arithon]

Don't for a moment think the over forties are all casual gamers who somehow stumbled into Elite by accident.

I was a gamer before the original Elite was released.

And I still am. I have GTA, Dying Light, BF4, Just Cause 3, Alien: Isolation, Ashes of the Singularity and Carmageddon: Reincarnation on my PC right now, although I mostly play Elite.

This idea that a bunch of us have just sat in a closet since the 1980s waiting for Elite to return is an absurd notion. We're the ones who've been owning you on Counterstrike, wiping the BattleField with you and kicking your backside in pretty much everything. The average age of a gamer is 35, not 17. Think about that. The average. Many of us are well over 40.

Age is irrelevant to gaming preference. I think certain people confuse complaints of dumbed down games as an age thing, when it is an experience thing. We're experienced enough not to be fooled by pretty graphics, but want a decent underlying game mechanic.

A 6 hour experience where 4.5 hours are scripted cut-scenes is an interactive film, NOT a game. If you want that, you're not a gamer regardless of what your age or parental status may be.

For example, I have seen people complaining on the forums that flying in super-cruise takes too long and they should be able to jump from station to station. That would render Elite a point-and-click adventure game! Surely you don't have to be a parent to see that's a dumb idea?

Elite should not be dumbed down to appeal to people with short attention spans or made super-easy so the unmotivated won't give up in the first 60 minutes. I'm saying that because I'm a gamer who relishes a challenge, not because I'm over 40 or a Dad, but because in my experience, playing linear scripted games with a fixed endpoint are dead after a few hours and have no replay value. And that's not Elite.

So to answer the OP's question: No. Stupid stereotypes do not apply.

 

[Iskariot]

I ended up yesterday with a miner CMDR, while he was mining, I covered him from pirates.
THAT was fun to me.
We talked, laughed, simple joys.
He was quite appreciative, and I was happy for being active.
This I like.

Or teaming up into a larger wing, and go out being ACTIVE.
That then is my ADHD side I reckon.

I do not need blingbling, I want simply some action...

I would like that kind of stuff for solo minded players too. Even in open I do not mingle with humans.
I think it would be great if I got hired by an npc miner to protect him, or if it would be possible to be part of a wing with npc, doing combat, protect each other etc.

I expect this kind of stuff to be added in the near future.

 

[Vasea Azure]

Ok, what makes you say that? Or did you mean "None"?

Because it's a sentiment I have not encountered on this forum.

To be clear, I'm talking about the sentiment that hardcore ED gamers do not see flaws in ED.

There are (very few) commanders that gets very angry when someone points flaws or even suggest some addition to the game. Its rare but its there.

 

[Armour]

It's not such a bad category to target. Dads have money.

 

[Vasea Azure]

If Blade Runner were made today it would have more comedy hi-jinks for the kids also forget the bad cinema ending...Deckard would now need to be seen walking calmly away from an explosion and everything would need to be left open for a sequel.

Oh no, do not even suggest Michael Bay to make "new" version of Blade Runner - that would be... unbearable!

 

[Salami]

True.
Some do ask quite mad things, indeed.
While there are games that i like for the cutscenes (One is the Mass Effect series), I do not want that in here.
And I think, most would not want this.
But some ideas are good, and still be shot down by some.
Often in rude ways.

There are (very few) commanders that gets very angry when someone points flaws or even suggest some addition to the game. Its rare but its there.

These I meant...
Thank you.

 

[Vasea Azure]

True.
Some do ask quite mad things, indeed.
While there are games that i like for the cutscenes (One is the Mass Effect series), I do not want that in here.
And I think, most would not want this.
But some ideas are good, and still be shot down by some.
Often in rude ways.

I suggest cargo storage once... did not end well.

 

[Salami]

I suggest cargo storage once... did not end well.

PRECISELY, while in fact it IS a GREAT idea.

And just this kind of douchery prevents others from posting ideas.
Granted, not all ideas are as good, but still...

 

[dementia]

Just what is a "Gamergame" exactly - what makes it different from a "Dadgame"?

If you mean Generic Shooter FPS XIIX Zombie Skin DAY-ONE DLC then I'd consider that kind of thing even less of a Gamergame than Jetpac from 1983.

Jetpac! - Now that does take me back to the good old days! Have some rep!

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Well, if you read into some of the reactions some people get on the forum, you can filter out the folks which i am speaking of.
Note, I'm speaking of folks that simply REFUSE change.
For the record.

I understand what you mean. And I have not seen anyone refuse change. I have seen people disagree with a particular change, but being opposed to a particular change does not mean they are against any kind of change.

This is the disconnect I often see. You cannot extrapolate from being against a particular change to refusing any kind of change.

edit: I have been told to be a stagnant old geezer for not wanting guild owned stations. Been accused of the exact things you're saying. I was simply refusing to admit ED had flaws, etc etc the whole shebang.

But I'd like cargo storage.

Mind blown?

 

[Salami]

Some! get in every idea topic and simply shoot it down.
Or try to, at least.