UA Mystery thread 4 - The Canonn

[Jorge]

Absolutely correct Jorge, but there is nothing wrong in hypothesisng that they are, and then reasoning towards a testable experiment; however I have run out of ideas to test (well I have one, but maybe tomorrow or Friday)......

Again, 100% agree with that. My reaction was just to the post saying something along the lines of "the barnacles in the Horizons trailer", which is a statement of fact. As I've said quite a few times already, they may well be the barnacles, we just don't know yet. Absolutely nothing wrong with coming up with theories or hypotheses, I do it all the time myself It's just when we leap to hypothesis=fact that I think is counterproductive.

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good point. So far I have been ignoring the lower half of my scanner, but I think I will at least check out some of the metallic meteorite signatures.

...since meteorites are found "in space" and "on planet", seems to fit.

img credit: dognosh

View attachment 92938

Rep to you for posting useful stuff, and for giving credit where it's due

 

[bitstorm]

Throwing this one out there:

The wave scanner is not able to find Meta-Alloys nor barnacles because they are organic. The wave scanner can only pick up metallic and elemental signatures.

Agree/disagree/provemewrong

The wave scanner detects UAs.

No idea if that proves anything.

 

[Jorki Rasalas]

This is a point that needs to be corrected, and it's one I've brought up before..

Thargoids are NOT the only alien species in the Elite universe, matter of fact, a number of worlds now occupied only by Humanity were indeed once the homeworlds of different alien species, sentient space traveling races no less. Combined with the fact that Thargoid technology is NOT an unknown to Humanity, I've been unable to figure out why so many people, quite a few who should know better mind you, keep insisting the UA's are of Thargoid origin. Humans and Thargoids had an alliance, we lived and worked side by side with them, technology was freely shared between us, this went on for some time, so we KNOW Thargoid technology. The UAs are totally unknown, therefore, they can't be Thargoid.

And let us just totally overlook the fact that the Thargoids didn't come from the direction of Merope shall we? They came from a different section of the galaxy all together, pretty much 180 from Merope and the Pleiades, something people should be able to remember as the Line was held for a very long time by GalPol and then INRA.

The UAs are a rather cool puzzle, but so many of you are trying to put together a puzzle using a picture you've already built up in your heads without looking at the box the puzzle came in at all. Yeah, Thargoids were the big bad alien invaders once upon a time, but they ceased to be the bad guys in the last game of the series, remember? There ARE other aliens out there, and quite a few of them have bones to pick with Humanity, after all, we took over their homeworlds, wiped out entire races as well, so there's probably a few of them out there looking for some serious payback.

David has been clear, Thargoids are out there, and they aren't the only aliens out there either....maybe people should start thinking about all the OTHER aliens that Humanity has ticked off?

Unfortunately I can only rep you once, so havbe some extra vrep (+10) !!

 

[xdeath]

I dropped my UA on Pleione 4 during an experiment. Drove around a bit pointing my SRV at it. It does show up on the wave scanner. It shows in the upper middle range, where you'd expect a ship to show up, and makes about the same sound as a cargo canister (aside from its usual whale/scream). If you really want it, I can put up screenshots and even a vid. I did notice that it didn't turn toward Merope when sitting on the surface, but that may be because it lacks any form of ambulatory appendage. Also, it stopped decaying while on the surface. That part was interesting. Everything else cargo-related decays. UA's decay in space. But this one sat on the surface at 100% for a good 3 or so minutes before I picked it back up again.

It has the same wave form as a cargo container, both when dropped from ship or SRV. It does not degrade when dropped from an SRV, unlike when dropped from a ship.

 

[Han_Zen]

Why are meta-alloys metal? as my above post shows they only say they are composed of many different elements, while a metal is involved in alloys normally, the wording of in the description "so technically they are alloys" implies they aren't necessarily classed as one. (though yes they probably do contain some metallic elements, but how much?)
Also the scanner seems to pick up non-metalic elements since sometimes I'll only get carbon in a rock that it has happily detected on the scanner

When melted they turn into a regular alloy. It's the distribution of the elements that is special, not the composition.

 

[EAGLE 5]

When melted they turn into a regular alloy. It's the distribution of the elements that is special, not the composition.

I'm thinking super duper hull plating Mk.III reflects 95% of laser fire.... or cannon balls.... canonn balls! that should be a type of cookie!

 

[slartybartfast]

When melted they turn into a regular alloy. It's the distribution of the elements that is special, not the composition.

Yes reminds me of a 3d printed material that came up on some science site, it was as light as that air gel stuff but close to the tensile strength as steel, that was printed in different types of materials and layer structures.

 

[squiggsy]

When melted they turn into a regular alloy. It's the distribution of the elements that is special, not the composition.

Very true, I forgot about that bit, true enough. Though I'd still say we don't know what metal they're made from, or what metal our wave scanners pick up, or where on the wave scanner each metal is registered (since some metals are in the outcrops etc but I'd assume our ships/canisters are also made from metal).
Basically we have no idea how they will show up on the wave scanner and don't really have a way to know, I'd lean towards something like the full wave effect like a shipwreck with escape pod/skimmer/cargo simply because that seems to imply there are a lot of different elements all in one place, but that'd be purely a guess.

 

[Cynaqq]

When melted they turn into a regular alloy. It's the distribution of the elements that is special, not the composition.

Being a materials scientist, materials science fiction always strikes me as ridiculous

If we leave science fiction aside, melting being possible means these are mostly made of metals. We can assume they are certainly not oxides or nitrides because then they would not melt but break down in different mechanisms, such as become volatile and sublimate. Some carbides embedded in metals, such as the Fe[SUB]3[/SUB]C phases in ordinary steel can be dissipated into the molten metal matrix, therefore the carbon dissolved in molten iron can form the iron carbides again upon solidification.

If it was only the distribution of the elements, then they would be ordinary doped alloys or particle reinforced composite materials. The term 'Meta Alloys' with their description suggests a special atomic structure such as a superlattice bulk material. Superlattice materials usually are used in thin film form or they are made of quantum dots or wires.

See, the real science is a lot fancier than science fiction. We have quantum wires!

 

[dynamicbob]

my updated information is that it may spawn in a few unique positions to start with, once a location is publicly known we may see Fdev spread it to new locations (like the shell for UAs) over time. my guess is they may be on uniqueish planets ( like those rare ones that u barely see in systems like black/red volcanic worlds not that we can land on them) but some landable world that doesnt spawn very often but might require some specialised hunting to search em out

 

[LordZoltan]

Being a materials scientist, materials science fiction always strikes me as ridiculous

If we leave science fiction aside, melting being possible means these are mostly made of metals. We can assume they are certainly not oxides or nitrides because then they would not melt but break down in different mechanisms, such as become volatile and sublimate. Some carbides embedded in metals, such as the Fe[SUB]3[/SUB]C phases in ordinary steel can be dissipated into the molten metal matrix, therefore the carbon dissolved in molten iron can form the iron carbides again upon solidification.

If it was only the distribution of the elements, then they would be ordinary doped alloys or particle reinforced composite materials. The term 'Meta Alloys' with their description suggests a special atomic structure such as a superlattice bulk material. Superlattice materials usually are used in thin film form or they are made of quantum dots or wires.

See, the real science is a lot fancier than science fiction. We have quantum wires!

You sound smart. What you said ^

 

[EAGLE 5]

Being a materials scientist, materials science fiction always strikes me as ridiculous

If we leave science fiction aside, melting being possible means these are mostly made of metals. We can assume they are certainly not oxides or nitrides because then they would not melt but break down in different mechanisms, such as become volatile and sublimate. Some carbides embedded in metals, such as the Fe[SUB]3[/SUB]C phases in ordinary steel can be dissipated into the molten metal matrix.

If it was only the distribution of the elements, then they would be ordinary doped alloys or particle reinforced composite materials. The term 'Meta Alloys' with their description suggests a special atomic structure such as a superlattice bulk material. Superlattice materials usually are used in thin film form or they are made of quantum dots or wires.

See, the real science is a lot fancier than science fiction. We have quantum wires!

We're talking about a game that allows you to extract bulk zinc ore (which melts at 692K) on a planet whose surface is in the excess of 1000C because it orbits around 400LS to a giant AIII star...

By that definition with no atmosphere thus atmospheric pressure most metals below 1000C would be present on the surface as runny puddles or low hanging vapor.

Going back to your meta-alloy description any idea how such lattice is manufactured? We can discount atmospheric pressure as a factor so all we got is presence of metals (or contaminants) light, gravitational pull, and potentially radiation (if that is factored in). I know X never ever marks the spot but there has to be a set of conditions that is favorable for meta-alloy generation that we should be looking for.

 

[Cynaqq]

We're talking about a game that allows you to extract bulk zinc ore (which melts at 692K) on a planet whose surface is in the excess of 1000C because it orbits around 400LS to a giant AIII star...

By that definition with no atmosphere thus atmospheric pressure most metals below 1000C would be present on the surface as runny puddles or low hanging vapor.

Going back to your meta-alloy description any idea how such lattice is manufactured? We can discount atmospheric pressure as a factor so all we got is presence of metals (or contaminants) light, gravitational pull, and potentially radiation (if that is factored in). I know X never ever marks the spot but there has to be a set of conditions that is favorable for meta-alloy generation that we should be looking for.

On earth, they can be manufactured by some kind of epitaxial growth technique. This means each layer of atoms are attached slowly on top of the previous ones, so they mimic it's structure, usually from vapor form. Molecular beam epitaxy is one such method. However, some biological processes found in plants and animals produce some materials unmatched by engineering standards. Such a material is the enamel of our teeth, naturally occurring hydroxyapatite. Spider silk is another such super-material. So, if we leave out the real description of metamaterials, which specifically excludes naturally occurring materials, they can be produced by space animals.

BTW, the funniest thing in the game for me is 'crystalline gold'. Gold is already a crystalline material, all metals are

Oh, one more thing. Ores are not metals. They are metal containing mineral mixtures so their melting points can be and usually are a lot higher than the metal you extract out of them. So, you actually can find some metal containing ores on planets without atmospheres with surface temps over 1000^oC. Only the extremely high melting point and low vapor pressure ones though, others, such as titanium oxides would just instantly vaporize.

 

[Jorge]

Being a materials scientist, materials science fiction always strikes me as ridiculous

If we leave science fiction aside, melting being possible means these are mostly made of metals. We can assume they are certainly not oxides or nitrides because then they would not melt but break down in different mechanisms, such as become volatile and sublimate. Some carbides embedded in metals, such as the Fe[SUB]3[/SUB]C phases in ordinary steel can be dissipated into the molten metal matrix, therefore the carbon dissolved in molten iron can form the iron carbides again upon solidification.

If it was only the distribution of the elements, then they would be ordinary doped alloys or particle reinforced composite materials. The term 'Meta Alloys' with their description suggests a special atomic structure such as a superlattice bulk material. Superlattice materials usually are used in thin film form or they are made of quantum dots or wires.

See, the real science is a lot fancier than science fiction. We have quantum wires!

Well put! I couldn't have said it better myself... No, really, I couldn't have.

 

[EAGLE 5]

On earth, they can be manufactured by some kind of epitaxial growth technique. This means each layer of atoms are attached slowly on top of the previous ones, so they mimic it's structure, usually from vapor form. Molecular beam epitaxy is one such method. However, some biological processes found in plants and animals produce some materials unmatched by engineering standards. Such a material is the enamel of our teeth, naturally occurring hydroxyapatite. Spider silk is another such super-material. So, if we leave out the real description of metamaterials, which specifically excludes naturally occurring materials, they can be produced by space animals.

BTW, the funniest thing in the game for me is 'crystalline gold'. Gold is already a crystalline material, all metals are

YOU GET REP!

that's my new catchphrase anyway... I had read that, recently there were some serious strides made in replicating spider silk production... mainly being able to observe and understand the process which is a good first step I suppose. Now the other question which has been tossed about before on this thread is the "foamed aluminum" description.. any idea what they refer with that and how it might help us here? My understanding from reading the description (as you put it) is that in 3300 humans "foam" aluminum for what I suppose is things such as clear metals (a la Star Trek IV) which is nowhere near as perfect at constructing meta-alloys from a natural source...potentially these large barnacles.

Also great work sir what do you do for a living?

 

[Roganski]

Somewhat off-topic, but relevant all the same...

Given the enormity of this thread and the difficulty in keeping up, I've started a poll on the question of requesting a sub-forum dedicated to the UA mystery (or science stuff in general). It can be found here...

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=221475

Please take a look and vote if you're inclined to do so.

Thanks.

 

[Han_Zen]

Being a materials scientist, materials science fiction always strikes me as ridiculous

If we leave science fiction aside, melting being possible means these are mostly made of metals. We can assume they are certainly not oxides or nitrides because then they would not melt but break down in different mechanisms, such as become volatile and sublimate. Some carbides embedded in metals, such as the Fe[SUB]3[/SUB]C phases in ordinary steel can be dissipated into the molten metal matrix, therefore the carbon dissolved in molten iron can form the iron carbides again upon solidification.

If it was only the distribution of the elements, then they would be ordinary doped alloys or particle reinforced composite materials. The term 'Meta Alloys' with their description suggests a special atomic structure such as a superlattice bulk material. Superlattice materials usually are used in thin film form or they are made of quantum dots or wires.

See, the real science is a lot fancier than science fiction. We have quantum wires!

Exelent stuff. The 'Organic' growt thing led me to this article during beta testing: https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20906-life-like-cells-are-made-of-metal/

I have linked it several times. It rings a loud 'meta-alloy bel'l in my ear. It's pure speculation though.

 

[CMDR Runcible Shaw]

On earth, they can be manufactured by some kind of epitaxial growth technique. This means each layer of atoms are attached slowly on top of the previous ones, so they mimic it's structure, usually from vapor form. Molecular beam epitaxy is one such method. However, some biological processes found in plants and animals produce some materials unmatched by engineering standards. Such a material is the enamel of our teeth, naturally occurring hydroxyapatite. Spider silk is another such super-material. So, if we leave out the real description of metamaterials, which specifically excludes naturally occurring materials, they can be produced by space animals.

BTW, the funniest thing in the game for me is 'crystalline gold'. Gold is already a crystalline material, all metals are

I have some limited experience with materials science/condensed matter physics, but I thought it would be helpful to repost the meta-alloy description from the wiki:

Meta-alloys have a complex lattice structure with large internal voids. They are cellular in nature, and formed organically. They are incredibly strong - much stronger than foamed aluminium for example. Many elements form the structure so technically they are alloys, but the composition is different in different parts of the cell walls for strength. They are good thermal insulators, and have a high melting point, but if they are melted they lose all their special properties and become a conventional alloy. They are easily machined, but as yet cannot be manufactured, only found in space. They are associated with recently discovered alien entities nicknamed 'Large Barnacles' by interstellar explorers. These appear to be common in certain parts of space, although no-one is certain why. This material has been heralded as the next step in materials technology. It is ultra-light and stronger and more versatile than most commercially available alloys.

For the people who are discussing metallic versus organic, the description does not say the meta-alloy is made of organic components, it says it's "formed organically". I take this to mean that it is formed by an organism of some type, but may be entirely made of inorganic materials (i.e. metals, although to an astrophysicist everything except hydrogen and helium are metals). The "cellular in nature" part is a little confusing. It could mean they resembling living cells, or it could be referring the the "large internal voids" mentioned earlier. Metal foams, like the aluminum foam mentioned in the description can be open-celled or close-celled, meaning the voids either interconnect or they don't. It has nothing to do with them being like the cells in our bodies.

Now, I'm going a bit beyond my knowledge here, but I think the "meta" part of the meta-alloy is referring to the part of the description of the non-uniform distribution of the various alloy components throughout the structure.

 

[Cynaqq]

YOU GET REP!

that's my new catchphrase anyway... I had read that, recently there were some serious strides made in replicating spider silk production... mainly being able to observe and understand the process which is a good first step I suppose. Now the other question which has been tossed about before on this thread is the "foamed aluminum" description.. any idea what they refer with that and how it might help us here? My understanding from reading the description (as you put it) is that in 3300 humans "foam" aluminum for what I suppose is things such as clear metals (a la Star Trek IV) which is nowhere near as perfect at constructing meta-alloys from a natural source...potentially these large barnacles.

Also great work sir what do you do for a living?

I'm a materials engineer and scientist, currently working to get my PhD. I specialize on surface modification techniques such as hard, wear resistant coatings. We also grow diamond in the lab but as 50 micron thick films over molybdenum so I don't know what we'll do with them

Metal foams are a real thing too, see here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_foam

I didn't know the 'Meta-Alloy' description from the wiki. It looks like they took this wikipedia article I linked and went to town with it

 

[CMDR Runcible Shaw]

YOU GET REP!

that's my new catchphrase anyway... I had read that, recently there were some serious strides made in replicating spider silk production... mainly being able to observe and understand the process which is a good first step I suppose. Now the other question which has been tossed about before on this thread is the "foamed aluminum" description.. any idea what they refer with that and how it might help us here? My understanding from reading the description (as you put it) is that in 3300 humans "foam" aluminum for what I suppose is things such as clear metals (a la Star Trek IV) which is nowhere near as perfect at constructing meta-alloys from a natural source...potentially these large barnacles.

Also great work sir what do you do for a living?

Humans foam aluminum today. It's not actually that hard.

Edit: Beaten to the punch by the real materials scientist in the house.