How long is the Alpha phase of the Beta phase?

[Rog]

As title:

Since there is a firm date for closing Alpha applications (25th April), would FD like to give the beta backers some indication as to how long they anticipate the Alpha-only phase of the beta phase (or whatever we are supposed to call this new phase) is likely to last?

Will it be the same amount of exclusive Alpha access for 'premium' and 'standard' beta builds?

 

[Susimetsa]

Will it be the same amount of exclusive Alpha access for 'premium' and 'standard' beta builds?

I would not use the word "exclusive" in quite that way to describe the alpha. Many of us have not had much chance to play with all the CTDs etc. Basically, if you get a week of good playtime in Beta (an hour or two every day), you'll already have played the game much more than I have during the entire alpha.

 

[EidLeWeise]

I don't know - but I suspect the phrase might be 'soon'.

In all honesty I suspect that we'd see a situation similar to some of the recent Alpha - Release beta 1 to the Alpha players.
Within 24 hours they'd know how stable it was.
If stable release it to the beta players.
Else fix* and release.

Eid

*the fix part is obviously variable depending on the problems and can't be defined without defining the definition.

 

[Gibbonici]

As title:

Since there is a firm date for closing Alpha applications (25th April), would FD like to give the beta backers some indication as to how long they anticipate the Alpha-only phase of the beta phase (or whatever we are supposed to call this new phase) is likely to last?

Will it be the same amount of exclusive Alpha access for 'premium' and 'standard' beta builds?

I doubt there'll be an announcement until the 25th, as stated in the newsletter.

There'll be a lot coming together in the first few builds so I'm presuming a few weeks of alpha as problems are ironed out before it's passed on to beta backers. That period should get shorter with each build unless there are fundamental issues that need rewriting between them.

It might just be a day or so as others have suggested but it's probably better to err on the side of caution. As I said, there'll be a lot of game systems that are coming together for the first time so there's a strong chance of stability issues arising during the alpha period.

 

[Patrick_68000]

April 25 is the date of closing sales alpha ? But not stop alpha testing, is not it ?

 

[kilvenny]

If the Alpha folks find nothing then I would imagine it would be released to the beta's twenty four hours later. However if they find something major then that will be fixed first, so I would assume there would have to be another build which the alpha's would have to test again before the beta's get there hands on it.
So my thinking is 24 hours later if no bugs or 72 hours later if bugs are found based on 1 day to test first build, 1 day to fix and 1 day for the second test. Bad bugs could of course extend the middle window.

The piece that intrigues is when this process is going on will that mean that the beta's cannot play on the old build?

 

[Patrick_68000]

In my opinion this new phase (intermediate between the alpha and beta 1) will last at least 10 days. Let us not forget that there is a commercial promotional gesture for people which subscribe to the alpha until April 25. After 10 days (or more) the backers of beta 1 will have access.

 

[ZeeWolf]

I have a feeling that Frontier will probably give more information about the Beta process soon.

I think its possible that the reason they are rolling out the Alpha process first on new stuff is to protect the Beta process from game breaking day zero type stuff.

This game is going to start getting very big and if the Beta process is set back because people can't recreate game issues because they are getting a new CTD or loading issue then it really defeats the purpose of Beta and could impact the release date of this title. What if someone finds an issue exploiting a trade route between Earth and Barnard's and it needs specific circumstances to set up? The Alphas can't help as they have the latest net code which means the game doesn't work for them. A beta tester just happens to be in the area on the more stable Beta and can recreate the issue and document it so Frontier can take a look.

I know this is just throwing more petrol onto the fire, but I think there is rational thinking and best practice going on here and hope Frontier put out some information so the Beta guys understand the process and how it works.

 

[Gibbonici]

The piece that intrigues is when this process is going on will that mean that the beta's cannot play on the old build?

I'm guessing that FD will have a beta and alpha server, which will become the test and live servers after release. Well, that's what I'm hoping anyway.

 

[ZeeWolf]

The piece that intrigues is when this process is going on will that mean that the beta's cannot play on the old build?

I cant' see why (they wouldn't be able to), the Beta process is important and loosing time having that play testing going on would be madness.

 

[KING5TON]

"As we move into the Beta process, all Premium and standard Beta builds will be given exclusively to the Alpha players first."

It's what FD said.
Either Alpha players won't get all builds first, just the first one, because it's not technically feasible in which case is that statement is basically mis-selling just to get more £200 backers or is it correct and they will in some way give Alpha players an exclusive period of access to the builds?

In one hand you've potentially got new Alpha backers that stumped up now who have been mis-sold and that doesn't bode well for the future or you've got beta backers who for certain periods won't be able to play the beta (or just have to wait for a newer build but can still play somehow, not sure how if we're on the same server) while they wait for the alpha exclusivity period to end.

Neither situation is very good, I hope I'm wrong and it all works out OK but I'm starting to serious lack faith due to this type of shenanigans

 

[ZeeWolf]

"As we move into the Beta process, all Premium and standard Beta builds will be given exclusively to the Alpha players first."

It's what FD said.
Either Alpha players won't get all builds first, just the first one, because it's not technically feasible in which case is that statement is basically mis-selling just to get more £200 backers or is it correct and they will in some way give Alpha players an exclusive period of access to the builds?

In one hand you've potentially got new Alpha backers that stumped up now who have been mis-sold and that doesn't bode well for the future or you've got beta backers who for certain periods won't be able to play the beta (or just have to wait for a newer build but can still play somehow, not sure how if we're on the same server) while they wait for the alpha exclusivity period to end.

Neither situation is very good

That depends on whether they were using the word "build" to mean a candidate that they may fix some essential things before they roll out to the larger group, and they haven't confirmed this yet so we don't know. I agree that if they had clarified the details with people already involved rather than announcing it in the newsletter as some kind of exclusive deal it would have perhaps caused less anger (although really anything seems to cause anger)

I think that people have mislead themselves as much as anything. The wording was "Participate in the first round private beta test", a round isn't a build its a period of time with a start and end, and Beta is the process. The first round begins whenever and Frontier can roll out those builds to whoever they wish in whatever order they want during that round. Everyone is talking about entitlement and being mislead and lied to but at the end of the day they are trying to put out a decent product to market and participating in the beta process is supposed to help with that not about getting exclusive look at anything that comes out.

 

[legal666]

Sanity at last! Can we pick up our toys and get on with the matter in hand testing and preparing a first class GAME, 30 years in the making, for a worldwide audience of expectant gamers!

 

[ZeeWolf]

Sanity at last! Can we pick up our toys and get on with the matter in hand testing and preparing a first class GAME, 30 years in the making, for a worldwide audience of expectant gamers!

I like this idea

 

[Gibbonici]

I think that people have mislead themselves as much as anything. The wording was "Participate in the first round private beta test", a round isn't a build its a period of time with a start and end, and Beta is the process. The first round begins whenever and Frontier can roll out those builds to whoever they wish in whatever order they want during that round. Everyone is talking about entitlement and being mislead and lied to but at the end of the day they are trying to put out a decent product to market and participating in the beta process is supposed to help with that not about getting exclusive look at anything that comes out.

Yet alpha is now being pitched with ongoing exclusive beta build access as a selling point.

Up until newsletter #18 this is what premium beta meant - Beta Phase Premium Beta (formally 1st beta) to start after Alpha has finished. (£100+)

I don't want to be ed off by this anymore, life is too short, but there were no unreasonable expectations and it's not unreasonable to be unhappy that the change to the original pledge level was communicated so late via a sales pitch for more alphas. And doubly so after three months of arguing against the idea that alpha was a cash grab and telling people that beta would come when alpha was finished.

This is going to be a sore point for a while, and retconning meanings into old statements to fit new announcements doesn't help anybody or anything. Things have changed, it was communicated amazingly badly and it's left a bad taste in a lot of mouths.

If you want this to settle down don't tell us that we were kidding ourselves all along, just leave it. In the end this doesn't effect you, you don't have to adapt your expectations to the new premium beta model and the further delays it implies. Comments like the ones I quoted above really don't help that process.

 

[Susimetsa]

"As we move into the Beta process, all Premium and standard Beta builds will be given exclusively to the Alpha players first."

So the alpha backers will have the joy of experiencing all the crashes so that they can be fixed for the beta players... Not sure how I feel about this... I've had quite a spotty testing record already with all the crashing and stuff... :/

 

[ZeeWolf]

Yet alpha is now being pitched with ongoing exclusive beta build access as a selling point.

Up until newsletter #18 this is what premium beta meant - Beta Phase Premium Beta (formally 1st beta) to start after Alpha has finished. (£100+)

I don't want to be ed off by this anymore, life is too short, but there were no unreasonable expectations and it's not unreasonable to be unhappy that the change to the original pledge level was communicated so late via a sales pitch for more alphas. And doubly so after three months of arguing against the idea that alpha was a cash grab and telling people that beta would come when alpha was finished.

This is going to be a sore point for a while, and retconning meanings into old statements to fit new announcements doesn't help anybody or anything. Things have changed, it was communicated amazingly badly and it's left a bad taste in a lot of mouths.

If you want this to settle down don't tell us that we were kidding ourselves all along, just leave it. In the end this doesn't effect you, you don't have to adapt your expectations to the new premium beta model and the further delays it implies. Comments like the ones I quoted above really don't help that process.

my point is that everyone (including myself) who backed any kick-starter/early access with expectations of what Alpha and Beta means is misleading themselves as much as anything else. None of us know what those terms mean in the context of crowd funding early access deals, there is no standards or precedence. Like you I had no idea that Frontier were going to roll out to Alpha group first during the first phase Beta but I can't see anywhere in the description that says they won't do that, that is all. I can also see why they would do that to protect the Beta testing from grinding to a halt but I guess it will be down to Frontier now to explain that to you.

Some people here very clearly think that 'First phase beta' meant getting first hand access to all builds during that round. But that's actually very subjective, there was no reason to think otherwise though because it didn't state it very clearly and I agree the newsletter was not the way to announce this and announcing it as a perk for Alpha seemed silly because I can't believe they really got much more than a few extra hundred or thousand quid out of last minute Alpha upgrades.

It is a fundamental problem with these types of deals for all of us. Is Frontier to blame? Probably for not being very clear about what the Beta process is yes, did they lie to you? I can't see why, sorry.

So the alpha backers will have the joy of experiencing all the crashes so that they can be fixed for the beta players... Not sure how I feel about this... I've had quite a spotty testing record already with all the crashing and stuff... :/

To be fair, I think this is the risk of taking on any Alpha though isn't it?

 

[HaB1971]

So the alpha backers will have the joy of experiencing all the crashes so that they can be fixed for the beta players...

hey this is what Microsoft does but doesn't call it Alpha or Beta... it is just straight up product...

Anyway... I think that it is right that the current Alpha testers (if testing is what they are actually doing rather than flying around going Pew-Pew-Pew) currently know what was/is broken and that they should be in the first round of Beta testing as Beta is all of the game pieces from Alpha joined together so it will be quicker and easier for them to spot something that's wrong...

Bit of spit and polish and then let the rest of us who will pretend to test but really just want the game already loose on the universe...

 

[Gibbonici]

It is a fundamental problem with these types of deals for all of us. Is Frontier to blame? Probably for not being very clear about what the Beta process is yes, did they lie to you? I can't see why, sorry.

Let me just make this perfectly and abundantly clear - I have never thought that FD have lied to me. Neither have I felt entitled and nor do I hate them. I totally understand that things change during development and schedules are flexible. If you read through my posting history I've argued these points all along, and I think that given the relatively small amount of complaining since January's beta date came and went, most other beta backers are of the same mind.

Where the disappointment and frustration comes in is seeing a sales pitch which sells alpha access off the back of a change to the premium and standard betas. A change that wasn't hinted at and was impossible to anticipate given that we've had very little idea how alpha was going or the problems it's thrown up. And it didn't help to be told that we could double our pledges to get into the beta we'd already pledged for when it first becomes available, as if this was a great deal for us.

As I said, a change was made, it was communicated terribly and it has understandably left a lot of people thinking what? Apart from being told that beta will begin when alpha is over throughout the past three months, that alpha sales pitch was the very first new information we've had regarding our beta pledge levels - and after months of patiently waiting and managing the expectations of other beta pledgers in lieu of anything coming from FD.

Another poster noted yesterday that the past three months of betas getting no information or updates has produced about the same amount of anger that a couple of quiet weeks in January created among alpha backers. If this was just about any other gaming community, the past few months would've been a ****storm of rage and recrimination.

All I'm going to say is that we deserved better than that newsletter and sales pitch.

And now you can call me entitled if you want.

 

[ZeeWolf]

Let me just make this perfectly and abundantly clear - I have never thought that FD have lied to me. Neither have I felt entitled and nor do I hate them. I totally understand that things change during development and schedules are flexible. If you read through my posting history I've argued these points all along, and I think that given the relatively small amount of complaining since January's beta date came and went, most other beta backers are of the same mind.

Where the disappointment and frustration comes in is seeing a sales pitch which sells alpha access off the back of a change to the premium and standard betas. A change that wasn't hinted at and was impossible to anticipate given that we've had very little idea how alpha was going or the problems it's thrown up. And it didn't help to be told that we could double our pledges to get into the beta we'd already pledged for when it first becomes available, as if this was a great deal for us.

As I said, a change was made, it was communicated terribly and it has understandably left a lot of people thinking what? Apart from being told that beta will begin when alpha is over throughout the past three months, that alpha sales pitch was the very first new information we've had regarding our beta pledge levels - and after months of patiently waiting and managing the expectations of other beta pledgers in lieu of anything coming from FD.

Another poster noted yesterday that the past three months of betas getting no information or updates has produced about the same amount of anger that a couple of quiet weeks in January created among alpha backers. If this was just about any other gaming community, the past few months would've been a ****storm of rage and recrimination.

All I'm going to say is that we deserved better than that newsletter and sales pitch.

And now you can call me entitled if you want.

no, I think as always argument subjects get a bit crossed in the thread. I think you and I were broadly agreeing on some things and somewhere up to this point someone else felt they had been "lied" to so please excuse me if I appeared to be arguing a point which you had not made.