I'm a bit concerned..

[JeffRyan]

I'm not in the preferential group and I don't mind those big ones have SLIGHTLY better treatment than I get.

Tbh this thread for me is part of the reason if I was FDEV I'd never have done the groups as minor factions thing because I KNOW some people would complain about it. Which is unfortunate, I think it brings a lot to the game... even if I am stuck in Cubeo...

 

[Crazy Jedi]

FD's stance, to my eye, has been rather contradictory regarding the idea/implementation of clans/guilds etc. The game was initially advertised heavily as a lone wolf experience and clans etc were not part of the game. indeed a while ago there was (and there still is) much complaint and noise made about the fact that ED does not have much in the way of clan/guild tools or functionality. Slowly FD started to make noises that were encouraging to people interested in clan/guild play. Now it is openly encouraged.
The big problem for clans is the whole instancing issue. The Big Hutton Orbital scrap between The CODE and The Hutton Truckers was actually not much more than a disjointed series of on/off skirmishes due to instancing. Both sides claimed victory but the truth of it was that no one really knew who won.
At it's heart ED is not very good as a guild or clan gaming experience due to the way it works and it's initial design.
The people that have managed to sort themselves out in to fully functioning groups, such as The Code and The Truckers should be applauded for all their effort and work to make it happen, but that is in spite of the way ED works rather than because of it.
FD seem to react to what these groups want to try and make happen and some times it does look or feel like they are pandering to them.
Personally I don't mind groups within the game. I play as a lone smuggler but having groups about adds something to the galaxy. I don't think that the way that ED works currently particularly suites group or clan play.

 

[Cosmos]

I'm not in the preferential group and I don't mind those big ones have SLIGHTLY better treatment than I get.

Tbh this thread for me is part of the reason if I was FDEV I'd never have done the groups as minor factions thing because I KNOW some people would complain about it. Which is unfortunate, I think it brings a lot to the game... even if I am stuck in Cubeo...

Odd really considering you made several big threads in the past petitioning for the game not to have groups or clans. I have no issue with groups/guilds/clans being in the game, although I think we could do better in making them than having to send in an email request. No group should have better treatment than any other. In fact I have never seen anything like this in my entire life and its baffling this is even half way acceptable.

Nothing wrong with having a community spot light or promoting an event a group or player might have going. But when some have preferential treatment which includes influencing the outcomes or events in game and those things aren't afforded to all. I'd say thats not a fair situation, and it smacks of favouritism and bias.

 

[Crazy Jedi]

I Agree with that!

 

[fademist]

I'm not in the preferential group and I don't mind those big ones have SLIGHTLY better treatment than I get.

Tbh this thread for me is part of the reason if I was FDEV I'd never have done the groups as minor factions thing because I KNOW some people would complain about it. Which is unfortunate, I think it brings a lot to the game... even if I am stuck in Cubeo...

why they r special ppl and all the others r peasants?

 

[JeffRyan]

Odd really considering you made several big threads in the past petitioning for the game not to have groups or clans. I have no issue with groups/guilds/clans being in the game, although I think we could do better in making them than having to send in an email request. No group should have better treatment than any other. In fact I have never seen anything like this in my entire life and its baffling this is even half way acceptable.

Nothing wrong with having a community spot light or promoting an event a group or player might have going. But when some have preferential treatment which includes influencing the outcomes or events in game and those things aren't afforded to all. I'd say thats not a fair situation.

I know right, I have commented on the fact I've u-turned having seen the effect of the big groups on the game. I mean much as I HATE CODE I love there's a bad guy to rally against. Besides, a lot of what I feared didn't come to pass with so little to actually control.

 

[Kristov]

I'm not sure I'm seeing the problem myself, as what you are saying and what FD actually does appear to be 2 different things.

Anyone can create a group and email FD to be added to the Group database. Size of the group may or may not determine the groups ranking, FD even says that in the email, small very active and vocal groups can be Triple Elite as well as groups with hundreds of members who are active, while a group of a few hundred that isn't active will probably get dropped to Dangerous if they remain inactive.

As for what you get as a group, it's not what you make it out to be. The ingame faction, you don't control it, you get nothing from it, it's simply your group name as an ingame faction, that's it.

The rest of the stuff, I'm not seeing how any of it gives anyone any undue advantage or anything of that sort.

It's not like the groups who play Elite Dangerous are getting special tools and abilities, they simply have a little advance notice about certain events and that's it. ANYONE can submit ideas for a CG, anyone can submit stories for GalNet, they all get looked at and approved or based on merit, not because you belong to a group or not.

It's not preferential treatment, it's simply good community management, you acknowledge the players who form groups and want to promote the game, nothing new there, it's been the norm in the industry for many years now, Blizzard, EA, etc, they've all been doing it for a long time. It's not like these groups get to decide the outcome of the game or decide the development path, they simply get acknowledged for their efforts.

 

[Crazy Jedi]

why they r special ppl and all the others r peasants?

That sounds to me like an elitist attitude Get it?

Nah?

Oh forget it

 

[Mephane]

My main gripes with player factions in particular is

a) Too little lore-wise curation of the faction names. Some groups received factions with names completely beyond the 4th wall, for example by referencing the game itself.
b) Player factions magically spawning into existence and being granted station and system control for free (displacing previous ownership in the process).

 

[Ian Skippy]

Can anyone fill me in on what is unfair or problematic here? Concrete examples, not vague feelings of unease, please. Just saying 'biased', 'favouritism', 'unfair advantage' and all that is just sloganeering without anything to back that up.

 

[JeffRyan]

I'm not sure I'm seeing the problem myself, as what you are saying and what FD actually does appear to be 2 different things.

Anyone can create a group and email FD to be added to the Group database. Size of the group may or may not determine the groups ranking, FD even says that in the email, small very active and vocal groups can be Triple Elite as well as groups with hundreds of members who are active, while a group of a few hundred that isn't active will probably get dropped to Dangerous if they remain inactive.

As for what you get as a group, it's not what you make it out to be. The ingame faction, you don't control it, you get nothing from it, it's simply your group name as an ingame faction, that's it.

The rest of the stuff, I'm not seeing how any of it gives anyone any undue advantage or anything of that sort.

It's not like the groups who play Elite Dangerous are getting special tools and abilities, they simply have a little advance notice about certain events and that's it. ANYONE can submit ideas for a CG, anyone can submit stories for GalNet, they all get looked at and approved or based on merit, not because you belong to a group or not.

It's not preferential treatment, it's simply good community management, you acknowledge the players who form groups and want to promote the game, nothing new there, it's been the norm in the industry for many years now, Blizzard, EA, etc, they've all been doing it for a long time. It's not like these groups get to decide the outcome of the game or decide the development path, they simply get acknowledged for their efforts.

Pretty much.

 

[KING5TON]

Did you not read the OP?
Here it is again highlighted so you cannot miss it

- Premium Social Promotion
- VIP invitation to Community Events
- Invitation to monthly Group Summit meetings hosted by CM on Skype with potential guest speakers

I don't know if I can make it flash or not in case you missed it again.

 

[Cosmos]

Can anyone fill me in on what is unfair or problematic here? Concrete examples, not vague feelings of unease, please. Just saying 'biased', 'favouritism', 'unfair advantage' and all that is just sloganeering without anything to back that up.

I'd rather not call out specific examples, not because I can't, but because I think it might be unfair to those involved and I'd rather not start a flame war.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Did you not read the OP?
Here it is again highlighted so you cannot miss it

- Premium Social Promotion
- VIP invitation to Community Events
- Invitation to monthly Group Summit meetings hosted by CM on Skype with potential guest speakers

I don't know if I can make it flash or not in case you missed it again.

lol.. Its shocking init..

 

[KING5TON]

What I really don't understand is "Premium Social Promotion"
Why do the biggest groups need Promotion?
Surely they've got it backwards and the small groups that need promotion will get "Premium Social Promotion"

 

[Drelthar]

It makes sense to reward players who do things that help the game. Doing so means others will emulate that.

Think it's not fair, make and run a group.

For context, I belong to no group.

 

[Louella]

Some of my friends who play Elite, have an informal group, which they're using in a co-ordinated fashion, to achieve some goals ingame (changing which minor faction controls a system), according to their ingame political agenda. Roleplay, as it were.
Last I heard, they're still thinking about whether or not to go for the idea of registering as a formal group and creating a minor faction.

But, unless they do, then, despite their organised status, because they're not a formal group (yet), they don't get advance notice of things that might be of relevance in growing their group, and achieving their goals.

Like, if registered groups get told on Monday, that there'll be a thing on Friday, but the thing is only publicly announced on Thursday, then... the registered groups have 4 days to drum up interest in the Thing, while non-registered groups only have a day or so, which hinders their ability to promote Elite to non-Elite playing friends.

So this advanced notice has the potential, if mishandled, to be a "pulling up the ladder behind you" kind of situation, or a "missed the boat" situation, whereby, if you didn't get in before arbitrary time, then your ability to do things is permanently hindered. That is, by promoting large, established groups, it helps them to grow and achieve their goals, while acting to the detriment of newer, not-yet-established groups, who are just getting started.


I've seen it in other games too. Groups with the "inside line" to the game developer, turn up at community events forewarned and forearmed, dominate the event, reap all the awards, and other groups who don't have the "inside line", find that the event is already effectively over before they even logged on.

So, Caution advised, I guess

 

[Cosmos]

It makes sense to reward players who do things that help the game. Doing so means others will emulate that.

Think it's not fair, make and run a group.

For context, I belong to no group.

What helps the game is rather subjective and I like to think that everyone helps the game by playing it. Unfortunately because the game doesn't natively support clans or groups, and its all third party stuff it becomes an effort like trying to herd cats. Thats beside the point though.. You're okay with privileged groups having a game-play advantage in their representation and influence of what happens in game? I'd say thats unfair but each to their own

 

[CMDR Byr Goefin]

What helps the game is rather subjective and I like to think that everyone helps the game by playing it. Unfortunately because the game doesn't natively support clans or groups, and its all third party stuff it becomes an effort like trying to herd cats. Thats beside the point though.. You're okay with privileged groups having a game-play advantage in their representation and influence of what happens in game? I'd say thats unfair but each to their own

What would you do to fix it?

BTW, we get advanced info about what is coming, and we can comment on it, BECAUSE it directly impacts us. Every minor faction as the ability to participate, so it is fair.

If you don't participate in MF, then what is the harm to you?

 

[Don Alvarez]

Can anyone fill me in on what is unfair or problematic here? Concrete examples, not vague feelings of unease, please. Just saying 'biased', 'favouritism', 'unfair advantage' and all that is just sloganeering without anything to back that up.

As I said, when groups registration opened, even the lowest tier we were told was "for anyone who wants to be part of the discussion." As anyone in the bottom tier knows, so far there's been almost no discussion. Whatever discussions are taking place I'm guessing is happening in the group forums, which only the top tier of groups have access to.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

What would you do to fix it?

BTW, we get advanced info about what is coming, and we can comment on it, BECAUSE it directly impacts us. Every minor faction as the ability to participate, so it is fair.

If you don't participate in MF, then what is the harm to you?

I would allow the curator of any registered group access to the locked forums.

 

[{SAS}Stalker]

Asking to create a group by e-mail is emergent gameplay?

Yes that's EXACTLY what I meant

groups with

emergent

tools

would be more like it...

Chopping bits out of context is great fun!