Combat Loggers are weird...

[Mortarius]

Yeah no. If the player decided what is griefing, then you could argue that getting shot at while playing a game like Battlefield is getting griefed since I'm sure some people could get aggravated at getting shot at by other players while playing a game about shooting other players. Of course that would be nonsensical.
You don't get to decide what griefing is, the developers do. They lay out what is expected, legitimate gameplay and what is not. And if what they have defined as legit gameplay causes you 'grief', then the issue is you, not the player causing you that so-called grief. If you equate a game's normal gameplay experience to griefing, then maybe you should do your research better next time before buying a game.

Developers most certainly do not get to decide what is and is not griefing. Spawn camping used to be legitimate play in FPSs, however due to the grief it caused players it has now been mostly engineered out. The same will hopefully happen to reduce the volume of mindless killing in this game. I don't see anywhere in the official documentation of this game where it says 'expect to be blown up regularly for no reason by some random loser'.

Your argument is tantamount to saying that real life murder is fine because the universe allows it.

 

[Mohrgan]

That's the problem, it doesn't affect you on a day to day basis so you don't think FD should spend any time on it. I personally don't think FD should spend time on cqc or pp because I think their time would be better served on the main game mechanics and ddf ideas but I know that those are a big deal to some people. You don't see me in every pp or cqc threads going "suck it up people your enjoyment doesn't matter"?

It's one thing to have an opinion and another to trot it out over and over again to people who have already heard it a hundred times already.

You've turned in to the Jehovah's Witness of combat logging threads "Sure combat logging is annoying but have you heard the latest news about griefing?".

You do just what I do, but with different opinions. Trotting out another "CL'ing is bad" thread is serving what purpose?

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True, EQ doesn't have much consequence in plugging, but the age of that game isn't of relevance to the contemporary era of gaming where you know, internet got better, design got better. Also that EQ allows player to host their own servers (EQE) and largely due to the design of the game where it doesn't have the capacity to punish CL, ED has that capacity and is a modern game.

And no, it's not likely with any game with PvP, name a few well-known and populated games that can have genuine parallels to ED that doesn't deal with pulling the plug.

It's not annoyance, it's game breaking.



Admitting to ignorance, okay, ignoring you for being ignorant then.

You don't have actual solid experience with CLing, so stop pretending to understand the issue.

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Like I said, some people will say "I don't experience the problem, therefore it's no problem."

Nice. As long as I disagree with you, my opinion doesn't matter. That's a very enlightened view. Try all you like to put words in my mouth, and dismiss my argument. It won;t make yours any stronger. It will just show your intolerance.

Combat Logging is bad...... mmkay?

 

[GluttonyFang]

You do just what I do, but with different opinions. Trotting out another "CL'ing is bad" thread is serving what purpose?

Because you don't have the credentials to comment on the combat logging as you have shown people in this thread. I have to constantly explain terminologies and concepts related to Combat Logging and remind you to research properly.

Sure, you can give your opinion, but all you have done is trashing the credibility of your opinion on CLing.

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Nice. As long as I disagree with you, my opinion doesn't matter. That's a very enlightened view. Try all you like to put words in my mouth, and dismiss my argument. It won;t make yours any stronger. It will just show your intolerance.

Laughable, there are so many people on this forum that I constantly find myself in disagreement with that I consider rational thinkers and intellectuals.

You don't have the experience to comment on CLing yet you pretend that you do.

I am one of the most tolerant person on the forum, but the one thing I don't tolerate is ignorance, and excuse invented to disguise said ignorance.

 

[smiths121]

Hmm, the debate has not moved on much! Still naff!

My understanding the OP wished to pirate not pew-pew someone to explosion - that just means more paperwork looking after the bounties. I have no idea if the OP pirates exclusively player or a mixture of both. OP had a player combat log during interdiction. He was surprised to see the player turn up in the same system again later and then "quit to desktop" as soon as the OP "assumed the position"!

My view is the other player can leave the 2nd scenario and that is just "tuff bananas to the OP", the game allows immediate exit through "Save to Desktop". The first instance - well not so much the other player will needed to end process - or the OP is so naff at interdiction the other player had time for the 15 second count down - I mean there have been some comments about interdiction recently

I believe the OP started the thread to express his dismay that the 2nd encounter even took place.

Well I say report the player for the first scenario, tuff bananas for the 2nd encounter and if you see the player for a 3rd time text "Morbius" to be kind and then go about your business, even if that includes interdicting them.

Me I would take my chances in a Python being interdicted by a cutter in open - FDL well might pay up actually, but each scenario is unique. If I did not want this interaction but wanted to meet friends to play with, I would join Morbius, if I did not want any sort of player interaction except my buddies I would suggest private group. If I simply wanted to be alone to get on with what I want to do I would play solo. I therefore agree with the OP that the other player was a bit weird - they were not matching what they wanted out of the game with the choices available to them.

Excuse me whilst I pop into solo and go to a player groups system (no not Hutton) and trade with a station owned by a different minor race to lower the player group's influence even though they are trying to expand. Might even pop into a PvT Group get my buddies in those bog old Fed and Empire ships to do the same - not going to affect anyone else's game. Curiously most of the PvP'ers on this thread in player groups would not like my choice, but would respect my choice to do this - as a mostly PvE'er I am embarrassed by some of the attacks on open and the open pirates by my fellow PvE'ers.

Simon

 

[Distance]

You do just what I do, but with different opinions. Trotting out another "CL'ing is bad" thread is serving what purpose?

The purpose is to show the devs that combat logging is still a huge problem for players a year after their first official statement on it. If you go to that original thread it's filled with the same old people advocating it's use (even in an official thread by the devs . . .) and it's become an accepted opinion that cl'ing isn't actually bad if you throw the magical "griefing word" in to the mix.

If you started a thread about people using lua hacks you wouldn't be posting "I only use them when someone griefs me" or "I've never met a hacker so it's no big deal, it's just a minor annoyance". Although you're using an outside program with lua hacks, fd have the stance that hacking that way and combat logging as just as serious to a lot of players and should be seen as such.

It's not so much as a difference of opinions it's that in this instance "combat logging isn't serious and a minor annoyance because it doesn't happen to me often if at all" is wrong and both a lot of players who make these threads and FD feel the same way.

 

[Mohrgan]

Because you don't have the credentials to comment on the combat logging as you have shown people in this thread. I have to constantly explain terminologies and concepts related to Combat Logging and remind you to research properly.

Sure, you can give your opinion, but all you have done is trashing the credibility of your opinion on CLing.

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Laughable, there are so many people on this forum that I constantly find myself in disagreement with that I consider rational thinkers and intellectuals.

You don't have the experience to comment on CLing yet you pretend that you do.

I am one of the most tolerant person on the forum, but the one thing I don't tolerate is ignorance, and excuse invented to disguise said ignorance.

You don't value my opinion. I'm good with that. Neither you, nor any other poster here can certify my credentials. You and I have a difference of opinion. That doesn't mean I am wrong. I don't need your permission to comment on issues. You're just going to have to let the reading public compare the points made, and decide for themselves. Leave off me. Try working on my argument.

Combat Logging is cheating, but not worth any substantial effort from FD. There are plenty of boxes they have to tick, before CL'ing becomes a real issue.

 

[Distance]

Combat Logging is cheating, but not worth any substantial effort from FD. There are plenty of boxes they have to tick, before CL'ing becomes a real issue.

Combating a form of cheating isn't worth any substantial effort from FD? There goes any credibility you had on the subject.

When you've got paying customers quitting the game because of a form of cheating then I'd say that's a real issue. Please enlighten us to what other boxes FD should be ticking before dealing with a form of cheating that occurs on a daily basis.

 

[{SAS}Stalker]

Attacked in open, deal with it. Can't deal with it, exercise the ability to remove yourself from the equation.

Attacked in open and moaning about it is lemon worthy. Combat loggers do more damage to this game than anyone, its simply the lowest of the low and should be bannable.

 

[GluttonyFang]

You don't value my opinion. I'm good with that. Neither you, nor any other poster here can certify my credentials. You and I have a difference of opinion. That doesn't mean I am wrong. I don't need your permission to comment on issues. You're just going to have to let the reading public compare the points made, and decide for themselves. Leave off me. Try working on my argument.

Combat Logging is cheating, but not worth any substantial effort from FD. There are plenty of boxes they have to tick, before CL'ing becomes a real issue.

Omg... No one's trying to tell you your opinion is invalid, credibility and validity are two different things.

You don't have the relevant experience to see the full picture and effect of CLing.

If you really think you are credible, then tell me how regularly do you deal with CLing? What do you do in game on a daily basis? What kind of players do you associate with that give you ample opportunity to experience CLing and its effect on gameplay? What evidence can back you up?

You haven't provided any of that and you expect me to believe in the credibility of your opinion?

It's not about disagreement, it's about the credibility. Similar sets of data can often lead to several conclusions, but the premise is that you have these data, you're not showing any of us what gives you the credentials to comment on the severity of combat logging.

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Combating a form of cheating isn't worth any substantial effort from FD? There goes any credibility you had on the subject.

When you've got paying customers quitting the game because of a form of cheating then I'd say that's a real issue. Please enlighten us to what other boxes FD should be ticking before dealing with a form of cheating that occurs on a daily basis.

See what I mean...

 

[Mohrgan]

The purpose is to show the devs that combat logging is still a huge problem for players a year after their first official statement on it. If you go to that original thread it's filled with the same old people advocating it's use (even in an official thread by the devs . . .) and it's become an accepted opinion that cl'ing isn't actually bad if you throw the magical "griefing word" in to the mix.

If you started a thread about people using lua hacks you wouldn't be posting "I only use them when someone griefs me" or "I've never met a hacker so it's no big deal, it's just a minor annoyance". Although you're using an outside program with lua hacks, fd have the stance that hacking that way and combat logging as just as serious to a lot of players and should be seen as such.

It's not so much as a difference of opinions it's that in this instance "combat logging isn't serious and a minor annoyance because it doesn't happen to me often if at all" is wrong and both a lot of players who make these threads and FD feel the same way.

Yup, putting words in my mouth fixes everything. I never mentioned how often I've seen CL'ing. You just believe by making the point, that t never happens to me, you can dismiss my points. Good luck with that.

CL'ing is cheating. FD, from what I read here, get's daily reminders of it's occurrence. What have they done? Much of nothing. I argue that; the lack of action on FD's part indicates the issues' triviality.

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Omg... No one's trying to tell you your opinion is invalid, credibility and validity are two different things.

You don't have the relevant experience to see the full picture and effect of CLing.

If you really think you are credible, then tell me how regularly do you deal with CLing? What do you do in game on a daily basis? What kind of players do you associate with that give you ample opportunity to experience CLing and its effect on gameplay? What evidence can back you up?

You haven't provided any of that and you expect me to believe in the credibility of your opinion?

It's not about disagreement, it's about the credibility. Similar sets of data can often lead to several conclusions, but the premise is that you have these data, you're not showing any of us what gives you the credentials to comment on the severity of combat logging.

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See what I mean...

Nope. You can't put my experience on trial. That's not going to happen. My opinion's validity stands on own. Agree or not, you are not in any position to declare the credibility of my statements. I can argue that; because you focus on one facet of the game, you become too overwrought about minor issues. Because of your over immersion into one activity. Simply, you want to harp on a minor issue, because you see it.

 

[GluttonyFang]

Nope. You can't put my experience on trial. That's not going to happen. My opinion's validity stands on own. Agree or not, you are not in any position to declare the credibility of my statements. I can argue that; because you focus on one facet of the game, you become too overwrought about minor issues. Because of your over immersion into one activity. Simply, you want to harp on a minor issue, because you see it.

That is laughable, you provide nothing to support your stand and only destroy it with what you commented here that exhibit your ignorance on the issue.

I am a "polymath" equivalent in ED, I play close to every aspect of the game, which is why I am confident in my conclusion that CLing is breaking the game.

You can stand there and tell yourself you are credible all day long but the arguments and evidence you have provided only speak otherwise.

 

[Mohrgan]

Combating a form of cheating isn't worth any substantial effort from FD? There goes any credibility you had on the subject.

When you've got paying customers quitting the game because of a form of cheating then I'd say that's a real issue. Please enlighten us to what other boxes FD should be ticking before dealing with a form of cheating that occurs on a daily basis.

I point to FD's actual activity on the matter as proof of CL'ing's relative measure as a problem.

Boxes to Tick before CL'ing gets fixed: Wings, and instancing issues. Bounties and criminality. The BGS functioning properly. To name but a few.

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That is laughable, you provide nothing to support your stand and only destroy it with what you commented here that exhibit your ignorance on the issue.

I am a "polymath" equivalent in ED, I play close to every aspect of the game, which is why I am confident in my conclusion that CLing is breaking the game.

You can stand there and tell yourself you are credible all day long but the arguments and evidence you have provided only speak otherwise.

Yeah, that is your opinion. I get that. It still doesn't mean you can judge my relevance. You have no idea where my notion come from, so try something else. I am a diverse player as well. Let's just leave it at that, and focus on the debate, not me.

 

[GluttonyFang]

CL'ing is cheating. FD, from what I read here, get's daily reminders of it's occurrence. What have they done? Much of nothing. I argue that; the lack of action on FD's part indicates the issues' triviality.

Funny, the forum is filled with griefer calling more than any CLing relevant thread, anyone who has been on this forum for respectable amount of time can testify to that.

Also, since I can't name and shame, I'll inform you that a FD employee personally commented on a certain Cmdr's plea for innocence in protest/questioning against the message he received for CLing, stating that the system FD employs detected numerous CLing from the Cmdr, and one of the highest records, mind you, at the the time. This happened on the official Reddit.

You're only exhibiting your ignorance on the subject further, so please continue.

 

[Deleted member 110222]

A message to all combat loggers:

If you don't want to engage in PvP, then come join us in Mobius! We're all friends there and the chat is just great!

FD has made it possible to avoid PvP in a fair way, so if that's what you want, then please, come join us in our PvE adventures! It's fun!

That is all.

 

[GluttonyFang]

Yeah, that is your opinion. I get that. It still doesn't mean you can judge my relevance. You have no idea where my notion come from, so try something else. I am a diverse player as well. Let's just leave it at that, and focus on the debate, not me.

The problem is the debate cannot properly function without a credential check when you are exhibiting signs that warns people of your lack of experience.

I am the Ambassador of The Code, 5 months straight being a coordinator for Archon Delaine since the beginning of PP, active player pirate and BH. I rallied support for the changes to station bombing that killed off piracy due to canister limitation that later was changed, Distance is another supporter at the time as I can confirm.

Hence, I have thorough experience dealing with CLing, where is your credential?

If you just want to keep avoiding the question with excuses, fine, I'll dismiss your opinion from now on for lacking any credibility.

If you truly want the public to examine your credibility, then just put it out there and let people judge.

 

[Mohrgan]

Funny, the forum is filled with griefer calling more than any CLing relevant thread, anyone who has been on this forum for respectable amount of time can testify to that.

Also, since I can't name and shame, I'll inform you that a FD employee personally commented on a certain Cmdr's plea for innocence in protest/questioning against the message he received for CLing, stating that the system FD employs detected numerous CLing from the Cmdr, and one of the highest records, mind you, at the the time. This happened on the official Reddit.

You're only exhibiting your ignorance on the subject further, so please continue.

What does your first sentence mean? Could you restate that for me?

One citation makes a difference? And it was with one of the most egregious cheaters. A public slap on the wrist. They may have banned him too. Let's call it a show trial. That really shows the stuff FD are made of. By the way, I play the game in space, not on Reddit.

 

[GluttonyFang]

What does your first sentence mean? Could you restate that for me?

One citation makes a difference? And it was with one of the most egregious cheaters. A public slap on the wrist. They may have banned him too. Let's call it a show trial. That really shows the stuff FD are made of. By the way, I play the game in space, not on Reddit.

It means there's more cry about griefing than CLing, so there's no daily reminder of CLing on this forum.

And the rest of your statement is just laughable, it's showing that you don't really want a debate, and instead of staying on track of the argument, you are just using every excuse possible to avoid the argument.

I am about done here.

 

[Mohrgan]

The problem is the debate cannot properly function without a credential check when you are exhibiting signs that warns people of your lack of experience.

I am the Ambassador of The Code, 5 months straight being a coordinator for Archon Delaine since the beginning of PP, active player pirate and BH. I rallied support for the changes to station bombing that killed off piracy due to canister limitation that later was changed, Distance is another supporter at the time as I can confirm.

Hence, I have thorough experience dealing with CLing, where is your credential?

If you just want to keep avoiding the question with excuses, fine, I'll dismiss your opinion from now on for lacking any credibility.

If you truly want the public to examine your credibility, then just put it out there and let people judge.

Puffing. There is no valid reason anyone should have to ask for credibility from any of the posters here. That's as juvenile as asking FD for compensation because someone got CL'ed on. Your position with cOde, your activities within PP, and your stance on the number of canisters allowed in an instance doesn't give you the authority to call my experience into question. It just doesn't.

You should contain your arguments to the issues, not the individual. All you are trying to do is bluff and puff to get me to go away. Let the readers decide.

 

[GluttonyFang]

Puffing. There is no valid reason anyone should have to ask for credibility. That's a juvenile as asking FD for compensation because someone got CL'ed on. Your position with cOde, your activities within PP, and your stance on the number of canisters allowed in an instance doesn't give you the authority to call my experience into question. It just doesn't.

You should contain your arguments to the issues, not the individual. All you are trying to do is bluff and puff to get me to go away. Let the readers decide.

Laughable.

The only reason I listed those is because they directly throw me into the face of CLing more than any other things I can list.

The Code is the Piracy group in ED. Archon Delaine experiences the most undermining out of all PP factions.

My "stance" on the canister number got FD to change it, Michael originally stated that it was working as intended until forum users and fellow pirates explained to the developers otherwise. Also to tell you that Distance knows what he's talking about, not because he agrees with me, but he has the experience as a pirate player to know how game breaking CLing is.

Piracy/BH deals with CLing the most, ask any credible people on the forum. Or you know... actually experience it yourself and get to know that, but you won't.

So keep using excuses to disguise your lack of credibility, it's just exposing itself more and more.

"If you truly want the public to examine your credibility, then just put it out there and let people judge."

 

[Mohrgan]

Laughable.

The only reason I listed those is because they directly throw me into the face of CLing more than any other things I can list.

My "stance" on the canister number got FD to change it, Michael originally stated that it was working as intended until forum users and fellow pirates explained to the developers otherwise.

Piracy/BH deals with CLing the most, ask any credible people on the forum. Or you know... actually experience it yourself and get to know that, but you won't.

So keep using excuses to disguise your lack of credibility, it's just exposing itself more and more.

"If you truly want the public to examine your credibility, then just put it out there and let people judge."

You don;t like my opinion. That doesn't mean you get to remove my credentials. Get over yourself.

It is time to get back on point. Combat Logging is cheating..... MMMkay?