Combat Loggers are weird...

[Mohrgan]

It is game breaking to constantly be on the receiving end of it constantly. If you were shooting npcs up in a res and just as they were about to die and you were to recieve the bounty they winked out of existence.

From a pirate's point of view if you pull over 4 players with the intent to pirate them and they combat log on you after you've fired a few shots it's game breaking. You're out of pocket on ammao and damage costs (from the interdiction) and on top of that it's frustrating to deal with on a day to day basis in ever gameplay session you have.

From a pp point of view if you're about to take out a ship and stop them turning in their merits it's also game breaking for them to wink out of existence.

Just because you can't relate to dealing with some thing like this on a day to day basis it's not up to you to brush off other people's in game experiences. You're allowed to comment that in your day to day experiences it doesn't personally bother you but it's wrong to undermine other people's problems and constantly derail any threads pertaining to them.

I can relate. I see it well, I believe. I had my visions of being a pirate. That's why I took the name Mohrgan. It sounded pirate like. It didn't turn out to be my thing, and I moved on. Players getting frustrated over an issue is expected. I just don;t think that your personal aggravation is enough for CL'ing to rise any further than an annoyance.

If you don;t like my assessment, provide a better argument. Just telling me to stop disagreeing with you, is not useful. Convince me, or others, that your argument is more sound. That's all you can do.

 

[GluttonyFang]

There you go: Support cannot give you the experience back so quit wasting their time with support tickets. Credits and cargo, as you correctly stated, don't matter after all which is incidentally the only thing they can help you with.

Omg, read... credits are compensation.

It's the same as traders missing cargo when they land at their opposite end of the trade run

Explorer data missing

Mining cargo missing

Bounty missing

It's something that occurred that is an anomaly to the game.

And funny enough it occurs much more often than any of the things I listed...

 

[Distance]

(a scan is a hostile act)

Maybe the commander prefers to play with others, just not hostile others. The default setting in Elite Dangerous does not allow this, even in the face of technical failures in design such as combat logging.

The whole "you can play in solo" setup, is passive aggressive shunning, it's a toxic manipulative and ultimately sociopathic behavior enshrined in the game rules.

Glad I could clear that up for you.

Hello Commanders!

Player versus player conflict is integral to the game, as is player versus environment (and cooperative game play as well).

Both are valid play styles and both have different modes of play under the current rule set.

Zero player interaction = Solo

Full player interaction (good or bad) = Open

Pick your own level of player interaction = Group

Until this changes your insinuation of any kind of pvp as "toxic manipulative and ultimately sociopathic behavior " is moot.

Glad I could clear that up for you.

 

[GluttonyFang]

Fold

The whole "anyone that touch me is a griefer" setup, is passive aggressive shunning, it's a toxic manipulative and ultimately sociopathic behavior enshrined in the game rules.

Glad I could clear that up for you.

See what I did there?

 

[Mohrgan]

I'm not directing the last paragraph at you, it's a general statement.

You don't even understand the process of how that works. It's not just "this guy cled on me, pay me back."

There needs to be substantial video evidence that showcase the issue. Stop sprouting things onto the screen without proper research.

I don;t care what evidence a player could provide. To be payed for expenses, or potential loss of credits/cargo is still outrageous. It's like the Dev's putting powder on your bums after a nice bath.

If anyone can prove a player CL'ed, punish the CL'er. Don't bribe the attacker with compensation. That is backwards, pandering in the utmost. Just beyond the pale.

 

[Marcns007]

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=224630&p=3434653&viewfull=1#post3434653

Logging after 15 seconds isn't combat logging, but most people feel that it's cutting it too close.

I think if you fire on the other ship first you should not be able to log out
If you return fire you also should not be able to log out, if however someone is blowing up explorers with no weapons whilst on the ground for fun then they should be able to use the 15 second logout.
The game is not a war game where everyone is killing each other it is a mixture and a PvP player holds all the cards against a trader and it feels like and execution when you are an Explorer.
There is also no negotiation so they really are sad people.

 

[EddyRockSteady]

Omg, read... credits are compensation.....

God has nothing to do with this conversation.

That said, my point is that, rather than waste support's time with a ludicrous claim for compensation, get credits at a Has-Res.

Yes, you might not like it. You will however save support a helluva lot of time, time better spent fixing the game.

 

[GluttonyFang]

I don;t care what evidence a player could provide. To be payed for expenses, or potential loss of credits/cargo is still outrageous. It's like the Dev's putting powder on your bums after a nice bath.

If anyone can prove a player CL'ed, punish the CL'er. Don't bribe the attacker with compensation. That is backwards, pandering in the utmost. Just beyond the pale.

...

CL is an anomaly to the game, it's the same as if a bug caused cmdr to lose progress. Just because you likely don't suffer from it, doesn't mean it is not an issue.

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God has nothing to do with this conversation.

That said, my point is that, rather than waste support's time with a ludicrous claim for compensation, get credits at a Has-Res.

Yes, you might not like it. You will however save support a helluva lot of time, time better spent fixing the game.

Um, CL is a problem that the game has? Not just affecting player interaction but everywhere in the game?

Your suggestion is equivalent to someone saying that "oh you lost progress consistently due to a game anomaly? Too bad, deal with it."

 

[Distance]

If you don;t like my assessment, provide a better argument. Just telling me to stop disagreeing with you, is not useful. Convince me, or others, that your argument is more sound. That's all you can do.

If you can't see that a ship winking out of existence in front of you when you're about to gain a bounty or stop a ship to pirate it is game breaking to certain professions then the burden of proof is on you and not me.

It is officially more than an annoyance, it's classed as cheating by FD. If your same tired arguments held any weight then FD would say "cl to your hearts content" which then obviously haven't and won't. It's up to you to prove otherwise and not us. Combat logging is game breaking and not a minor annoyance.

It's also a big thing for me as I actually quit playing the game due to serial combat loggers in every single play session I had for two months.

 

[GluttonyFang]

If you can't see that a ship winking out of existence in front of you when you're about to gain a bounty or stop a ship to pirate it is game breaking to certain professions then the burden of proof is on you and not me.

It is officially more than an annoyance, it's classed as cheating by FD. If your same tired arguments held any weight then FD would say "cl to your hearts content" which then obviously haven't and won't. It's up to you to prove other wise and not us. Combat logging is game breaking and not a minor annoyance.

It's also a big thing for me as I actually quit playing the game due to serial combat loggers in every single play session I had for two months.

Well you know what some people say...

"If I don't experience the problem or it doesn't affect me, it isn't a problem..."

 

[Brimstone]

I think if you fire on the other ship first you should not be able to log out
If you return fire you also should not be able to log out, if however someone is blowing up explorers with no weapons whilst on the ground for fun then they should be able to use the 15 second logout.
The game is not a war game where everyone is killing each other it is a mixture and a PvP player holds all the cards against a trader and it feels like and execution when you are an Explorer.
There is also no negotiation so they really are sad people.

I don't like the fact that some players are attacking defenseless explorers, probably most people would agree that they don't like it. That still doesn't make it wrong. I've talked to you about this in the UA Canonn thread.

 

[Mohrgan]

...

CL is an anomaly to the game, it's the same as if a bug caused cmdr to lose progress. Just because you likely don't suffer from it, doesn't mean it is not an issue.

This is ridiculous to me. The other examples you listed are the games'/FDs's fault. Glitches and bad code. The behavior of some players is a very different thing. Stopping a client from running is not an anomaly of Elite. It can be done with any game. My Ctrl-Del-Alt works anytime, with what ever program I am running. People pull the plug in WoW, EQ, Warframe, you name it. It's just I have been through all of this before. I have evolved enough in my gaming to accept it. Chalk it up as a win, and move on.

 

[GluttonyFang]

This is ridiculous to me. The other examples you listed are the games'/FDs's fault. Glitches and bad code. The behavior of some players is a very different thing. Stopping a client from running is not an anomaly of Elite. It can be done with any game. My Ctrl-Del-Alt works anytime, with what ever program I am running. People pull the plug in WoW, EQ, Warframe, you name it. It's just I have been through all of this before. I have evolved enough in my gaming to accept it. Chalk it up as a win, and move on.

People pull the plugs in those games have consequences that ED doesn't have, why do you think it's more of a problem here than elsewhere?

Plug pulling is common in all games, but all games deal with them to either discourage it, mitigate it, or punish it properly, ED doesn't.

Why do you think it's considered cheating, it's because it's exploiting the game and something that isn't suppose to happen.

 

[Mohrgan]

If you can't see that a ship winking out of existence in front of you when you're about to gain a bounty or stop a ship to pirate it is game breaking to certain professions then the burden of proof is on you and not me.

It is officially more than an annoyance, it's classed as cheating by FD. If your same tired arguments held any weight then FD would say "cl to your hearts content" which then obviously haven't and won't. It's up to you to prove otherwise and not us. Combat logging is game breaking and not a minor annoyance.

It's also a big thing for me as I actually quit playing the game due to serial combat loggers in every single play session I had for two months.

I have stated many times over, CL'ing is cheating. But it is baby cheating. It is annoying. I don;t think it should take up a lot of FD's time. I suggest we all just accept it as something that happens. Chalk it up as a win, and move on.

 

[GluttonyFang]

I have stated many times over, CL'ing is cheating. But it is baby cheating. It is annoying. I don;t think it should take up a lot of FD's time. I suggest we all just accept it as something that happens. Chalk it up as a win, and move on.

You don't seem to want to understand that people who actively suffer from CLing (with the support of FD's statement) are telling you that it is game-breaking and cannot "chalk it up as a win" without going through extra steps.

How about you gain relevant experience before coming back and telling people that "it is no big deal"?

What is your credential in stating that it is no big deal?

 

[Mohrgan]

People pull the plugs in those games have consequences that ED doesn't have, why do you think it's more of a problem here than elsewhere?

Plug pulling is common in all games, but all games deal with them to either discourage it, mitigate it, or punish it properly, ED doesn't.

Why do you think it's considered cheating, it's because it's exploiting the game and something that isn't suppose to happen.

What consequence is there for pulling the plug in EQ? None. I've never heard of anyone being punished for it. It is as likely in any game with PvP, and it is with Elite. It is a bigger problem to you in Elite than other games, but that doesn't hold much weight against the long view, that it is just there. It is just an annoyance. Getting payed for suffering from it is just stupefying.

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You don't seem to want to understand that people who actively suffer from CLing (with the support of FD's statement) are telling you that it is game-breaking and cannot "chalk it up as a win" without going through extra steps.

How about you gain relevant experience before coming back and telling people that "it is no big deal"?

What is your credential in stating that it is no big deal?

Your sad experiences with CL'ing don't elevate to some game breaking issue. You get annoyed. It's not worth the hand wringing. Having FD's statement on CL'ing is no more valuable than having any of the dozens of statements being contended with as we speak. You can't call 'sacrosanct' on one statement, while calling foul on others. CL'ing is cheating. But an backhanded, frustrating kind of cheating that is best brushed off.

You try to acquaint a players opinions, to their experience in an effortr to bully them from commenting. It's lame. You have zero idea what my gaming experience is. You have less than zero knowledge of my Elite experience. Trying to pierce the veil and look into my gaming soul is useless. Stick to the arguments presented, or move on. Trying to diminish my point by marginalizing me only serves to point out the weakness of your assertions.

 

[Distance]

I have stated many times over, CL'ing is cheating. But it is baby cheating. It is annoying. I don;t think it should take up a lot of FD's time. I suggest we all just accept it as something that happens. Chalk it up as a win, and move on.

That's the problem, it doesn't affect you on a day to day basis so you don't think FD should spend any time on it. I personally don't think FD should spend time on cqc or pp because I think their time would be better served on the main game mechanics and ddf ideas but I know that those are a big deal to some people. You don't see me in every pp or cqc threads going "suck it up people your enjoyment doesn't matter"?

It's one thing to have an opinion and another to trot it out over and over again to people who have already heard it a hundred times already.

You've turned in to the Jehovah's Witness of combat logging threads "Sure combat logging is annoying but have you heard the latest news about griefing?".

 

[GluttonyFang]

What consequence is there for pulling the plug in EQ? None. I've never heard of anyone being punished for it. It is as likely in any game with PvP, and it is with Elite. It is a bigger problem to you in Elite than other games, but that doesn't hold much weight against the long view, that it is just there. It is just an annoyance. Getting payed for suffering from it is just stupefying.

True, EQ doesn't have much consequence in plugging, but the age of that game isn't of relevance to the contemporary era of gaming where you know, internet got better, design got better. Also that EQ allows player to host their own servers (EQE) and largely due to the design of the game where it doesn't have the capacity to punish CL, ED has that capacity and is a modern game.

And no, it's not likely with any game with PvP, name a few well-known and populated games that can have genuine parallels to ED that doesn't deal with pulling the plug.

It's not annoyance, it's game breaking.

Your sad experiences with CL'ing don't elevate to some game breaking issue. You get annoyed. It's not worth the hand wringing.

Admitting to ignorance, okay, ignoring you for being ignorant then.

You don't have actual solid experience with CLing, so stop pretending to understand the issue.

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That's the problem, it doesn't affect you on a day to day basis so you don't think FD should spend any time on it. I personally don't think FD should spend time on cqc or pp because I think their time would be better served on the main game mechanics and ddf ideas but I know that those are a big deal to some people. You don't see me in every pp or cqc threads going "suck it up people your enjoyment doesn't matter"?

It's one thing to have an opinion and another to trot it out over and over again to people who have already heard it a hundred times already.

You've turned in to the Jehovah's Witness of combat logging threads "Sure combat logging is annoying but have you heard the latest news about griefing?".

Like I said, some people will say "I don't experience the problem, therefore it's no problem."

 

[thorn-]

I was hanging around a system on Friday night with a decent bounty, due to shooting other players in my DBS.

A CMDR in a Python grabbed me - we danced for a bit, and my ship eventually crumbled. After a rebuy, I racked up a few hundred more fines in the next minutes, interdicting and assaulting. The same Python pulled me over again - but as fate goes, we didn't start shooting at each other. We comm'ed for a bit, discussing game play and the perils of uninvited PvP. In the end, i mentioned "Well, got to go... my GF just made a lovely dinner and it's time to eat". He mentioned he was envious of my dinner menu.

I logged out right then, with a bounty on my head and an armed python pointed at my ship. He had a good 15 seconds to take me out, at that point.

Logged in on Saturday - ship was right where I left it, undamaged.

Lots of CMDRs in the game have class.

Combat Loggers have none.

 

[Cmdr BrinBrown]

Guys and Girls.......................chill.........it's just a GAME
Forget about it
If I wanted to Kill people/players I would have to be smarter than them
Not into doing that, BUT if I was, I would kill them even if they CL'd
But not worth my time, CL if you want, I don't care
You CL, well you lose
BB