Yes PVP is unfair.

[Majinvash]

Same mechanics/faults apply for pirates and traders too
Yes I play in open and nope, you got me, I never used a wake scanner, just stating the way it should play out

Not arguing that, I am pointing out how a fuel rats style bounty hunting group wouldn't work, even though that is exactly what this game needs to sort out player killers and general baddies. Boarding on emergent content!

Majinvash
The Voice of Open

 

[shambles1980]

Not arguing that, I am pointing out how a fuel rats style bounty hunting group wouldn't work, even though that is exactly what this game needs to sort out player killers and general baddies. Boarding on emergent content!

Majinvash
The Voice of Open

the issue is.
Any time you suggest anything along the lines of make it easier to catch and keep some one in battle. all the explorers and traders "who may i add are usually in solo any way" lose their minds.
they only see it as "it will be harder for me to run away"
They never see the big picture of. It means that the bad men who got them will have it even worse when the vigilantes are after them..

people are always "but what about me" they never much see the big picture.
And a lot of screaming traders seem to have the voice of the forum. Even when almost all of them add (thats why i play solo. or thats why im in mobius)

 

[sewerratuk]

Well the easy way is to do the same thing as some do with combat loggers. Keep a list of names and KOS if you get the chance.
I would suggest a third party BH website that lists players with a warrant against them and systems they are known to hunt in, then we can all hound them

 

[Deadspin]

There is a security rating for systems. Easy to miss, but it is there in the information tab for the system.

I stand corrected. Does it really mean anything at this point though?

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Well the easy way is to do the same thing as some do with combat loggers. Keep a list of names and KOS if you get the chance.I would suggest a third party BH website that lists players with a warrant against them and systems they are known to hunt in, then we can all hound them

The patented BrabenHighWake method still negates any and all attempts to kill larger targets. I can only follow an Anaconda for so long with a wake scanner before I have to scoop and he's able to drop from SC and then high wake out of the system/switch to solo before I can catch up.

 

[Hawkmoon]

The reward is that it's entertaining gameplay. Most pirates have made their money so are not interested in the profit from your cargo, its about the role-play. If you choose to be a trader you should be happy when you get the chance to role-play against a CMDR pirate because however these posts make it sound, its only on a rare occasion that it happens

If you were going to role play then you would have to attack traders only for their cargo and if they gave it up you would have to let them go, that is role play. Just attacking ships for the sake of it can be described as role play....three year old role play.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

I stand corrected. Does it really mean anything at this point though?

A little. The NPC interdictions are more likely to happen in a medium or low security system. System security response is in all systems more or less non existent from my experience.

The system security rating can be easily ignored. Something that FD probably wanted to implement and since then forgot that it exists…

 

[Muetdhiver]

While there are security ratings for systems, they have no serious effect on actual security.
At the moment the game can be treated as one giant anarchy zone as far as conséquences from
criminal actions are concerned.

 

[Donald Duck]

At the moment there seems no real reason why to attack 'innocent' human ships, except those superficially explained here:

http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2015/02/12/differences-between-a-psychopath-vs-sociopath/

No 30 minutes epic PvP space battles, no exceptional rewards, no fame, no glory, just a borderliner's kick of being taken notice of.

Sorry for my harsh words but if you ask a professional brain doctor you'll exactly get this answer.

 

[Majinvash]

the issue is.
Any time you suggest anything along the lines of make it easier to catch and keep some one in battle. all the explorers and traders "who may i add are usually in solo any way" lose their minds.
they only see it as "it will be harder for me to run away"
They never see the big picture of. It means that the bad men who got them will have it even worse when the vigilantes are after them..

people are always "but what about me" they never much see the big picture.
And a lot of screaming traders seem to have the voice of the forum. Even when almost all of them add (thats why i play solo. or thats why im in mobius)

Yep its the people who are so scared of open that want all these crutches that actually help griefers.

I made a strawman last week, which I will repeat.

"I drive a car and I feel very strongly against something that would make cycling better" - Me ( ish )

Majinvash
The Voice of Open

 

[Darkphoenix]

Agreed, although you have to be careful or that could also drive people out of open if the profits are too high in low-sec but there are more player pirates. It would probably need careful balancing.

I actually brought up the whole imbalance issue like 7-8 months ago in another thread and stated this very thing......that anarchies should be where pirates thrive and everywhere else should be extremely hazardous to their lifestyle......I agree that Anarchies need a boost to make traders risk the dangers like a massive profit increase. They should be willing to pay more because they are in desperate need of supplies....honestly I don't feel there is a need to lower profits in high security however.....just make anarchies that are lawless far more lucrative.....greed will attract a lot of traders regardless.

 

[Flea King]

Yep its the people who are so scared of open that want all these crutches that actually help griefers.

I made a strawman last week, which I will repeat.

"I drive a car and I feel very strongly against something that would make cycling better" - Me ( ish )

Majinvash
The Voice of Open

I think a more apt analogy would be,

''I drive a car and would like to avoid being attacked by tanks.''

So Frontier, give us more info to use, to better plan our routes, to mark and share the danger zones and to recognize those that would do us harm.

The tank still nukes the car, but the car has more options to play - smart - and reduce their risk of being jumped.

Empowerment via the combat system, from loadout to flight, has been extensively tested and improved. I would very much like to see empowerment via logistical support and information/communication recieve the similar and ideally the same level of attention.

Granted logistics and infomation/communication technology is not as sexy and doesn't look so great on a website's splash screen, but it would encourage and better reward the use of brain juice, for both pirate and trader alike.

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

I agree that Anarchies need a boost to make traders risk the dangers like a massive profit increase.

Something like tax-free commodities, only for those flying in open, offering 25% discounted price would sound about fine.

 

[Deadspin]

Something like tax-free commodities, only for those flying in open, offering 25% discounted price would sound about fine.

That's going to drive us right back into the debate about why or why not certain game modes should be incentivized.

 

[Jer the Stampede]

One thing I've wondered since beta is why players are designated CMDR and have a hollow target icon, I would have thought life would have been far more interesting not knowing what you're biting on, oh look a Viper with a pilot called 'Dave' he could be a hapless NPC but then again he could be Baron-Von-Dave the Bling Barron of Zaonce!

Same goes for traders blending into the herd is probably a traders best defence, lighting them up with a neon sign telling all and sundry they are a CMDR and likely to have a hold full of goodies will draw the gankers from far and wide, as it is there is no way for traders to have a discrete escort because CMDR Big Dave stands out like a sore thumb.

 

[sewerratuk]

I stand corrected. Does it really mean anything at this point though?

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The patented BrabenHighWake method still negates any and all attempts to kill larger targets. I can only follow an Anaconda for so long with a wake scanner before I have to scoop and he's able to drop from SC and then high wake out of the system/switch to solo before I can catch up.

If a pirate, noob killer, etc. is regularly getting interdicted in their hunting grounds and having to high wake, they will either get bored and find a new location, or they will play the game and try to defend their territory. If they leave you have effectively created a 'safe' trade route/noob playground and you can give yourself a pat on the back

 

[Majinvash]

I think a more apt analogy would be,

''I drive a car and would like to avoid being attacked by tanks.''

So Frontier, give us more info to use, to better plan our routes, to mark and share the danger zones and to recognize those that would do us harm.

The tank still nukes the car, but the car has more options to play - smart - and reduce their risk of being jumped.

Empowerment via the combat system, from loadout to flight, has been extensively tested and improved. I would very much like to see empowerment via logistical support and information/communication recieve the similar and ideally the same level of attention.

Granted logistics and infomation/communication technology is not as sexy and doesn't look so great on a website's splash screen, but it would encourage and better reward the use of brain juice, for both pirate and trader alike.

I think you are missing the point / context of that strawman

“I play in Solo and Private and I feel very strongly against something that would improve Open”

Your car/tank one is very nice but total irreverent

Majinvash
The Voice of Open

 

[Flea King]

I think you are missing the point / context of that strawman

“I play in Solo and Private and I feel very strongly against something that would improve Open”

Your car/tank one is very nice but total irreverent

Majinvash
The Voice of Open

Ah yes, thank you and fair point.

Everyone has an opinion and if they'd kindly get off my lawn I can stop shooting them.

 

[Marcns007]

I actually brought up the whole imbalance issue like 7-8 months ago in another thread and stated this very thing......that anarchies should be where pirates thrive and everywhere else should be extremely hazardous to their lifestyle......I agree that Anarchies need a boost to make traders risk the dangers like a massive profit increase. They should be willing to pay more because they are in desperate need of supplies....honestly I don't feel there is a need to lower profits in high security however.....just make anarchies that are lawless far more lucrative.....greed will attract a lot of traders regardless.

Becouse we have traders, explorers, pirates etc and PVPers the game cannot be ballanced as the PVPers will always have a ship built to kill and the others can not compete.
The only way to ballance is to make it high risk for the PVPers such as no insurance and increase the security response.
If this was reality the space stations, authorities would lose out on trade and have to do something about it to make space safer, unfortunatly FD has done nothing to help the majority of players, just the PVP minority, which in my opinion is a strange business decision.

 

[Yaffle]

Okay folks time to calm down and have a cup of tea.

No need to snipe at each other.

 

[Mr_Blastman]

So if a trader decides to run the gauntlet and try to get his goods through it's his own fault and he deserves to face losing between 1 and 20mil (insurance and cargo) vs the attacker who faces a *possible* loss of < 1mil (if they get unlucky and get rammed) and a more likely teeny tiny bounty they can lose with a sidewinder. If we follow your reasoning to the logical conclusion then all traders should only stay in solo and never poke their heads out. And then there would be nobody to attack pirate/pvp.

See this is why I have no sympathy for traders (other than they shouldn't be murdered for fun). Traders are blinded by greed. You say a trader might lose between 1 and 20 mil... well that's nice. Let's look at it from an hourly earnings perspective...

Pirate earns ~500k/hr or less (these days a lot less)

Trader earns ~3 - 9 million an hour (or more? I don't know, I don't trade)

So a trader with a 20 mil rebuy is earning at least 9 mil an hour, probably more, probably 9 - 11 mil, so in two hours time they can re-buy everything and be back to normal.

Pirate earns less than 500k/hr, they might have a 1.7 - 3.5 million re-buy... that means it will take the pirate 3.5 - 7 hours to recover.


Let's say that again...

Trader has TWO HOURS risk of time

Pirate has SEVEN HOURS risk of time


Who has more risk? Who has more loss?

In 24 hours... Pirate might earn 12 million (yeah right--piracy is limited to only a few hours a day due to server load, so... realisticall)... pirate actually earns 3 - 6 million

Trader earns... 72 - 216 million.

Wait. Traders earn 18 times more money?!?!!?

SAY IT IS NOT SO.

I have no pity for traders.

(but I find myself defending them anyways from murderers because the spice must flow)

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Becouse we have traders, explorers, pirates etc and PVPers the game cannot be ballanced as the PVPers will always have a ship built to kill and the others can not compete.
The only way to ballance is to make it high risk for the PVPers such as no insurance and increase the security response.
If this was reality the space stations, authorities would lose out on trade and have to do something about it to make space safer, unfortunatly FD has done nothing to help the majority of players, just the PVP minority, which in my opinion is a strange business decision.

So let's see... let's take a game choice (because PLAY IT YOUR WAY) that some folks choose, that already makes no money, and make it impossible for them to recover...

Because

Other players who choose to trade and make 18 to 50 times (assuming pure PvP [not pirate] makes near-zero credits) more money per hour who can be sitting on giant credit balances can continue to make giant credit balances which usually ends up in them growing bored and quitting the game because there is no content.

That makes sense!