The Star Citizen Thread v 4

[Bruce Warren]

It's hardly surprising that CIG claim to be sitting on a huge pile of gold. They have to say that to survive, regardless of how much if it is of the leprechaun variety.

If CIG are in financial trouble, not saying they are, but if they are, then the very last thing they would want to do is either show their accounts or admit to financial difficulties.

Even the most die hard completionist isn't going to buy that new shiny ship if he thinks the company is bankrupt, so the funding level would drop to zero overnight. The project would be killed stone dead.

 

[swfanatic717]

Isn't it daft though that someone with a lot invested in the game would and moan and cause a ruckus thus further undermining support of the game? lack of support WILL kill the game and render that investment wasted?

No, I'm sorry IMO most people complaining about the money are clearly SC detractors (or are VERY VERY stupid people).

edit: for what it's worth I don't agree with the CiG financial model or think their organisational skills are good.

I'd say that giving someone money while paying no attention to where the money is going or what they're doing with it (ie. "take this money, I don't care what you do with it") is the very definition of throwing money away.

Seems pretty stupid to me.

Now, CIG worshippers aside, assuming SC fans in general aren't stupid, I think a significant portion of them would want to see financial accountability for something that should have been delivered several months ago.

 

[swfanatic717]

RSI seems to go into panic mode (means sudden surprise JPEG sale) when their daily inflow falls below 20k for a longer time. The "we can survive on zero income till release" is not all believable to me.

Pretty sure that only means that they can survive long enough to slap together whatever they have, package something that technically meets the Kickstarter description, push it out and claim that they fulfilled all their promises.

 

[Backer42]

Pretty sure that only means that they can survive long enough to slap together whatever they have, package something that technically meets the Kickstarter description, push it out and claim that they fulfilled all their promises.

You mean with mod support and private servers?

 

[Jenner]

Mod hat ON.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but this forum has rules against name calling. Give the 'SC fans/SC doubters are stupid' lines a rest. Thanks.

 

[Zargor]

So, how is that CIG - MadCatz partnership going on in order to produce that amazing and innovative SC piece of hardware? Last time I checked the entire MadCatz board was replaced, guess we will find out soon enough. It's almost like SC has a reverse-Midas effect.

No wait, never mind. I just realised it will come in two weeks for sure.

 

[Clawhammer]

RSI seems to go into panic mode (means sudden surprise JPEG sale) when their daily inflow falls below 20k for a longer time. The "we can survive on zero income till release" is not all believable to me.

Then it should be everythink fine now, no new concept sales until now in this year. A lot of people (including me) are hot for the new corvette. But CIG still dont want to give us dat concepts

Pretty sure that only means that they can survive long enough to slap together whatever they have, package something that technically meets the Kickstarter description, push it out and claim that they fulfilled all their promises.

I think it will be like the Elite release. At some point we get a basic version for 1.0. It still will lack some features, but it will get more and more features after the release like Elite. Good point here is we dont need to buy an addon like horizon for the missing features. Except of course for new chapters of the story.

You mean with mod support and private servers?

Yep they will come too, but iam sure after the full release and not before, which makes sense because the pu has to be done before making smaller pu's.

 

[Voivod]

I think it will be like the Elite release.

Considering how things are going now, I'm sure CIG would love to have a release like Elite had

 

[Tuub t Tute]

I think it will be like the Elite release. At some point we get a basic version for 1.0. It still will lack some features, but it will get more and more features after the release like Elite. Good point here is we dont need to buy an addon like horizon for the missing features. Except of course for new chapters of the story.

It won't be like the Elite release, because Elite launched a product that people could purchase retail, in the year they said they would. Also early backers were able to buy a Lifetime Pass which gave them access to any future content including ships, for a very low price. Even a subsequent lifetime pass offer was very reasonable. It doesn't cost $18000 USD to be able to access some ships on game launch, for example.

Making comparisons between a released retail product and an alpha rarely end well on this thread. Especially as the "inference" is a negative slant on how FDev conduct their business, to try and mitigate the negative feelings around here about CiG's business model.

Any chance we could get back to the game? Is there an update to the PU this week? News on the cover model for FPS?

 

[Aleksej]

It won't be like the Elite release, because Elite launched a product that people could purchase retail, in the year they said they would. Also early backers were able to buy a Lifetime Pass which gave them access to any future content including ships, for a very low price. Even a subsequent lifetime pass offer was very reasonable. It doesn't cost $18000 USD to be able to access some ships on game launch, for example.

Making comparisons between a released retail product and an alpha rarely end well on this thread. Especially as the "inference" is a negative slant on how FDev conduct their business, to try and mitigate the negative feelings around here about CiG's business model.

Any chance we could get back to the game? Is there an update to the PU this week? News on the cover model for FPS?

No one forces you to pledge $18000. The cheapest game package costs $40, which currently includes single player SQ42 campaign as well (until they separate them). And as far as I know this includes all future SC updates (i.e. there is even no need in lifetime expansion pass for SC for now). Also as far as I know it is going to be possible to buy all in-game assets for UEC.

And I would like to remind that the highest pledge for ED was £5000.

 

[ianw]

No one forces you to pledge $18000. The cheapest game package costs $40, which currently includes single player SQ42 campaign as well (until they separate them). And as far as I know this includes all future SC updates (i.e. there is even no need in lifetime expansion pass for SC for now). Also as far as I know it is going to be possible to buy all in-game assets for UEC.

And I would like to remind that the highest pledge for ED was £5000.

There's a huge difference in what you get for your money though. In ED the higher pledges offered nothing in game - it was all write a book - name a star - name founders etc.

The best you got advantagewise was a Cobra - not a pre-nerf Python which would have offered an insurmountable combat advantage against a sidewinder.

In SC you can start day one with a fully kitted over powered LTI'd monster (and a hnager full of identical repolacements with a game bank account stuffed with real money bought currency) compared to someone with a basic Aurora and practically nothing else.

If that isn't the definition of pay to have an immediate and clear advantage over someone I don't know what is.

 

[Leper Messiah]

I'd say that giving someone money while paying no attention to where the money is going or what they're doing with it (ie. "take this money, I don't care what you do with it") is the very definition of throwing money away.

Seems pretty stupid to me.

Now, CIG worshippers aside, assuming SC fans in general aren't stupid, I think a significant portion of them would want to see financial accountability for something that should have been delivered several months ago.

Indeed, but the ONLY return on that money will be the game being completed. If anyone has doubts to that and vociferous about it but leaving their money in....I just can't get my head around it. And I would imagine most SC fans will just want the game completed, all this hoo hah and speculation can only hurt that.

 

[ianw]

Indeed, but the ONLY return on that money will be the game being completed. If anyone has doubts to that and vociferous about it but leaving their money in....I just can't get my head around it. And I would imagine most SC fans will just want the game completed, all this hoo hah and speculation can only hurt that.

You're missing the bit where we can't get our money out since they started denying refunds.

I feel sorry for the people that just want the game completed and for the devs busting a gut trying to do the impossible.

If they gave me my money back I'd go back to being a silent observer.

Looks like the banks will be very busy with chargebacks.

 

[Tuub t Tute]

Also as far as I know it is going to be possible to buy all in-game assets for UEC.

And I would like to remind that the highest pledge for ED was £5000.

So the game is RMT / P2W then. Not my cup of tea, but each to their own.

£5000: Name Founders' World, Have dinner in Cambridge with the team, entitled to write an authorised novel, name a star system, reserve your commander name, name a planet, name a station, be part of the DDF. The only in-game boost was to start with a Cobra III and up to 3000cr and that was for £70. Anyone who played the gamma and didn't self p-wipe had more than that on release date, so hardly a game changer.

 

[Aleksej]

There's a huge difference in what you get for your money though. In ED the higher pledges offered nothing in game - it was all write a book - name a star - name founders etc.

The best you got advantagewise was a Cobra - not a pre-nerf Python which would have offered an insurmountable combat advantage against a sidewinder.

In SC you can start day one with a fully kitted over powered LTI'd monster (and a hnager full of identical repolacements with a game bank account stuffed with real money bought currency) compared to someone with a basic Aurora and practically nothing else.

If that isn't the definition of pay to have an immediate and clear advantage over someone I don't know what is.

Yeah... I remember that, selling intermediate scanner for 500k Cr, re-buying for 0Cr, and finally buying a Python in its full glory. Nice times. To be fair made a clear save after that and started with a basic Sidewinder.

Those who bought Beta access were able to start playing in Gamma and keep their progress, thus, they had a head start.

None of the LTI ships come fully kitted and overpowered. They come with basic equipment, all upgrades come at additional cost for UEC.

Correct, you can buy UEC for real money, but that's due to the funding model they have chosen. Their choice is in favour of microtransactions, and that's how they plan to raise money for future expansions.

There are no microtransactions in ED, however, those players who do not own LEP have to buy expansions.

So the game is RMT / P2W then. Not my cup of tea, but each to their own.

£5000: Name Founders' World, Have dinner in Cambridge with the team, entitled to write an authorised novel, name a star system, reserve your commander name, name a planet, name a station, be part of the DDF. The only in-game boost was to start with a Cobra III and up to 3000cr and that was for £70. Anyone who played the gamma and didn't self p-wipe had more than that on release date, so hardly a game changer.

It depends on how to define P2W. CIG's definition is that as long as you can buy everything for in-game currency it is not P2W.

There were a few exploits and ways to earn a lot of money in Gamma. As mentioned above it was possible to sell ship parts and rebuy them for free. There was no per player limit for rare goods and it was possible to fill a T9 with rares at one station.

But I expect SC to have similar issues at launch. We are yet to find out how they are going to handle beta testing. But I suspect that as soon as UEC is going to be made available for use in the game - there are not going to be any wipes.

 

[ianw]

Yeah... I remember that, selling intermediate scanner for 500k Cr, re-buying for 0Cr, and finally buying a Python in its full glory. Nice times. To be fair made a clear save after that and started with a basic Sidewinder.

Those who bought Beta access were able to start playing in Gamma and keep their progress, thus, they had a head start.

None of the LTI ships come fully kitted and overpowered. They come with basic equipment, all upgrades come at additional cost for UEC.

Correct, you can buy UEC for real money, but that's due to the funding model they have chosen. Their choice is in favour of microtransactions, and that's how they plan to raise money for future expansions.

There are no microtransactions in ED, however, those players who do not own LEP have to buy expansions.



It depends on how to define P2W. CIG's definition is that as long as you can buy everything for in-game currency it is not P2W.

That's the thing though they try and come out with all these weasely explanations that just make them look stupid and don't make any sense. Yes there is no "win" and yes you can earn stuff in game. that doesn't change the fact that two people can start on the same day and one can have a huge headstart over the other - and can keep stuffing their game account with real money. That is in no way equal.

I understand its their business model and that's exactly what they should say - not come up with ludicrous arguments anyone can drive a bus through with about 10 seconds thought.

Personally I don't give a flying fornication about the P2W argument - and yes ED had an element of it too - just to a much lesser degree.

For me they just make themselves look incompetent - even when it comes to constructing .

 

[Voivod]

None of the LTI ships come fully kitted and overpowered. They come with basic equipment, all upgrades come at additional cost for UEC.

They're still better than people with a basic pledge... which is the point. Real cash for in-game advantage. The more you spend the more advantage you have.

Correct, you can buy UEC for real money, but that's due to the funding model they have chosen.

You say that as if they had no choice. Poor CIG has to sell in-game cash becuase that's what they chose to do. That's not an excuse mate.

Their choice is in favour of microtransactions, and that's how they plan to raise money for future expansions.

I thought SQ42 going live and selling for retail was going to fund their future development?
Also they could always do what other succesfull respectable developers have done with microtransactions and sell cosmetic items (they have more than enough talented artists).
Or have a small variety of quality of life items that hardly affect the in-game economy.

It depends on how to define P2W. CIG's definition is that as long as you can buy everything for in-game currency it is not P2W.

Well of course their definition is not going to condemn their own practises.
CR even called it "pay to be lazy"
Anyone with a slither of objective judgement can see that it's Pay To Win with every definition of the sense.

 

[Tuub t Tute]

It depends on how to define P2W. CIG's definition is that as long as you can buy everything for in-game currency it is not P2W.

The common man would define P2W as being able to avoid earning things in game by purchasing using RL cash. The guy from CTRL-ALT-DEL did an interesting piece where he worked out how long it would take his wife to earn some in-game items in a MLP browser-type game without microtransactions. It was measured in years, not days.

I also feel that in a thread on the SC game, to keep coming back to "A released game has had some hiccups and may not have executed 100% successfully" is nothing more than deflection.

If you critique your neighbour's choice of bathroom tiles when your house has not even been built and you have already sacked the contractors who were pouring the foundations... you can see how that might look?

 

[Aleksej]

They're still better than people with a basic pledge... which is the point. Real cash for in-game advantage. The more you spend the more advantage you have.



You say that as if they had no choice. Poor CIG has to sell in-game cash becuase that's what they chose to do. That's not an excuse mate.



I thought SQ42 going live and selling for retail was going to fund their future development?
Also they could always do what other succesfull respectable developers have done with microtransactions and sell cosmetic items (they have more than enough talented artists).
Or have a small variety of quality of life items that hardly affect the in-game economy.




Well of course their definition is not going to condemn their own practises.
CR even called it "pay to be lazy"
Anyone with a slither of objective judgement can see that it's Pay To Win with every definition of the sense.

Excuse for what?

Everything is said here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEnvlONVspA#t=400

They still plan to sell credits and not ships (after the game release). So it was always the way how they planned to get funding - sell UEC for real cash, i.e. microtransactions.

 

[ianw]

Excuse for what?

Everything is said here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEnvlONVspA#t=400

They still plan to sell credits and not ships (after the game release). So it was always the way how they planned to get funding - sell UEC for real cash, i.e. microtransactions.

Genuine question - do you really think they won't continue to sell ships if they need the money and haven't come up with some other equally profitable cash generator?